Fighting Faith

[Garnet]

Hi all. I am new here, and this seems to be a really supportive environment, so I thought I'd ask for your help.

I am a college student who came to Jesus back in the middle of high school. However, I have wrestled with faith ever since then. Part of the problem is that I was raised to be logical and think for myself - I'm easily influenced by 'science' and things that tell me exactly why I shouldn't believe.

I have been struggling with sins in my life, and I fall flat on my face every time. I feel sort of lost where I'm at, because I'm not good enough for the Christians, but I feel out of place with the non-religious crowd. I know other people struggle too, but sometimes when I go to church and things, it just feels like everyone else has got it together, and they feel this presence all the time and have no question about what's going on.

Something I read one time really bothered me. It said that the feeling I got when I went to church sometimes, the one that made me want to sing and cry at the same time was just purely mental and emotional and had nothing to do with God. That was one of the few things that made me think I was really in touch. But now I can't shake the feeling that I'm just trying to pretend I feel something when I don't.

I ended up leaving my last church (a Pentecostal church) because I was so cynical and jaded with all the overt display there. I didn't feel the presence the way they did and it almost made me angry, like I was being left out for some reason. My current church is better, but I'm so busy with school that I miss it half the time and can't commit enough time to actually get involved and meet anyone.

I want to believe so very badly. But how do you know that you're a believer? I mean, it sounds like a stupid question. I want to believe in Jesus. I agree with the principles of Christianity, and I believe a lot of the historical facts that support Jesus' story. But how do you know that you really believe? I mean, how do I know that I haven't just convinced myself that I believe just to keep from going to hell?

I'm just so confused, and so many Christians aren't willing to talk about these uncomfortable things. So many people just say to pray about it. But I have, so many times, and it just never seems to get any better. I want to be a Christian, and I've asked Jesus to be part of my life so many times, but sometimes it just feels like no one's listening and that I'm missing something. I pray for guidance, and I pray for help, and just to be all that He wants me to be. I pray so often about these things and I have never heard that "small voice." I don't understand what people are talking about when they say that "God told me to do this" or "God laid it on my heart."

I guess my problem is that I try to think too logically and shut out anything that's not easily explained. Sometimes I'll start thinking about something, and I'll think "Maybe God is trying to show me this." And then that cold, rational part of me says "that's crazy, you just want that to be the case." Same with when I stumble across something that helps me in a struggle. For instance - earlier on this forum, I ran across a verse that I go to sometimes when I'm feeling overwhelmed by sin: Isaiah 43:18-19, which basically says to let the past go and look to the new things God is doing. And I was like, "yeah, thanks God for showing me this right now." But part of me is just saying "you just wanted to see something like that, so you picked up on it."

I don't know what I'm really asking for here. I just need some help if anyone's willing to offer some advice. I have Christian friends, but they're all so sure in their faith and I feel ashamed talking to them.

So, I would love any help anyone has. I'm sorry for the long, rambling post, but I just needed to get it off my chest. Thank you for any help you can offer.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

Experiencing God emotionally is not a bad thing.
Think about what you wrote for a second, "It said that the feeling I got when I went to church sometimes, the one that made me want to sing and cry at the same time was just purely mental and emotional and had nothing to do with God."
Your wanting to sing and cry is a mental and emotional response to something.
I would like to amend the above statement to "does not necessarily have to have anything to do with God." Our emotions change with the weather. How reliable is that? Experiencing God emotionally is a wonderful thing. But we must also realize that there is much more to our relationship with him than emotions or feelings.

 

[minister_kcc]

Hey Garnet Girl,

You wrote a lot, but that's okay. You were just pouring your heart out and that's awesome. Not many people can be so honest about something so personal. I just want to tell you first, that every person's relationship with God is different. He speaks in many ways. Just because you don't hear the still, small voice or God laying something on your heart...does not mean that you are not a believer.

I'm glad that you found another church and church going is good, but most important, you need to develop fellowship with God. Especially when you can't go all the time. Whenever you have time just pray and read the bible. You don't have to read five hundred chapters or be on your knees for 10 hours (I'm exaggerating). It's surprising what a 1 minute heartfelt prayer can do. Don't give up. The bible says that if you seek, you will find. Keep praying, keep asking Him to show you. Believing is just that. Believing. It really doesn't matter why you believe now. Soon, the love of God will so overtake your life that you won't be able to help but believe.

God created you. He knows how you think, how you feel, and He knows exactly what it will take for you to fall in love with Him. It might feel like no one's there or listening, but He knows all, sees all, hears all and is with you in it all. Have faith. Faith is believing even when you can't see. The bible says that faith is the substance of what you're hoping for and it's the evidence of what you haven't seen. Just believe Him.

I hope that helps you. There is so much more that I could say but I don't want to bombard you. Please, if you ever want to just talk, send me an email or a message.....or post on here. I'll keep my eyes open for your name because I really want to see how God changes things for you! I love you with His love!!!!!!

 

[Johnnz]

Hi,

We do not always belong to churches where we get a solid grounding in the reasons for faith. This can lead to some people relying far to much on 'experiences ' to sustain their faith. Others become confused, as there seems little relationship between church teaching and the wider community of ideas that we meet especially in universities and good colleges.

If you have intellectual questions they need intellectual answers. Fortunately, there are many good books available written by Christian scholars - don't confuse these with popular authors, as there is often a big difference in content and scope.

Visita good Christian bookstore and get into some solid reading. It will transform your faith.

John
NZ

 

[strengthinweakness]

Garnet,

I sympathize with your post. I, too, can be a pretty skeptical person, not easily "given" to faith. In my teen years and early twenties, I was an agnostic. Even after coming to faith in Jesus Christ, I have still struggled with a naturally skeptical mindset. However, through reading and research, I have found that the Christian faith is very well supported by many different kinds of evidence. I want to recommend six books to you that have helped me greatly in my times of questioning and doubt.

The first one is Reasons for Believing, by Frank Harber. This book is simply crammed with incredible evidence for the existence of God and the truth of Christianity, yet it is short and fairly easy to read. It's particularly good for people who have a "scientific" bent to their thinking.

The next two books are The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith, by Lee Strobel. Strobel is a former atheist who decided to investigate the claims of Christianity (thinking that he would prove them to be false) after his wife became a Christian. After two years of research, he finally had to admit, due to the evidence that he found, that Christianity is actually true. The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith deal with, and answer, the same questions that Strobel had as an atheist (the reliability of the Bible, the problem of reconciling suffering with the existence of a good God, naturalistic evolution vs. supernatural creation of the world, etc).

If you really want to go "deeper" into investigating the evidence for Christianity, check out the Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, by Dr. Norman Geisler. It's big, heavy, and it costs around 50 bucks, but if you can afford it, it is worth the investment.

Another great book that I think might really help you is Knowing God, by J.I. Packer. Sometimes, the understanding of God that is prevalent in many churches is based more on people's emotions and on what they WANT to believe about God, rather than on what the Bible tells us about Him. Knowing God helps a believer to do just that-- to better KNOW the God of the Bible. It's pretty deep-- not the easiest or quickest read-- but if you want to truly grow in your understanding of God, then Packer's book is VERY much worth the time.

Lastly, on a less "academic" but equally compelling level, I recommend the book Loving God, by Charles Colson. Colson shows what it TRULY means to love God. A hint: It's not about constantly seeking emotional experiences as the center of one's faith in Christ. Emotions are valid, but they are not the main point of the Christian life.

You mention not being "good enough" for the Christians in your area. I am so sorry for anyone who may have made you feel as if you were "too sinful" for God. Actually, one of the main points of Christianity is that NONE of us is "good enough"-- no one, no matter how much of a "good Christian" he/she may seem to be. Regardless of how many good things we do and how many sins we avoid, we are still sinful in our hearts, and therefore, we have to accept the death of Jesus on our behalf. He lived the perfect life that NONE of us could ever live. Thank God that it is not up to us to be "good enough," because if THAT were the criteria for being a Christian, none of us would ever make it! (Doing good works and avoiding sin ARE important to the Christian life, but they grow out of our being redeemed by Christ and having the Holy Spirit within us, rather than being things that we do to somehow be good enough for God.)

I will be praying for you, my sister in Christ. I know how hard it is to struggle with doubt. Christianity is a faith with real, solid evidence to back it up though. Our faith is based on facts. Please keep in touch and let us know how you are doing.

 

[madison1101]

I understand your feelings. I have often left church feeling like I didn't belong, that I wasn't good enough. I perceived that those Christians had it together, and I didn't. But then I learned that some of them are just as confused as I

Dig into God's Word, and cry out to Him the way the one man did. "Lord, I believe, help me in my unbelief."

You are not alone. Logic can fit with faith. Ask the Lord how.

Madison

 

[Garnet]

Hi again everyone. I just wanted to thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. I was wondering if anyone had any specific books they would recommend. I think maybe my brain quiets down a little, maybe things will become a little easier. Thank you all so much! Be blessed.

 

[strengthinweakness]

Hi again everyone. I just wanted to thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. I was wondering if anyone had any specific books they would recommend. I think maybe my brain quiets down a little, maybe things will become a little easier. Thank you all so much! Be blessed.

Hi again, Garnet. I'm not sure if I understood what you wrote above or not. You said you were "wondering if anyone had any specific books they would recommend." Did you see the ones I recommended in my earlier post? Just making sure. Take care, and may God bless you!

 

[Garnet]

Hi again, Garnet. I'm not sure if I understood what you wrote above or not. You said you were "wondering if anyone had any specific books they would recommend." Did you see the ones I recommended in my earlier post? Just making sure. Take care, and may God bless you!

I did, thank you strength! That was why I said that - to see if anyone else had specific books they thought might be helpful. Thanks for checking back in.

 

[carmi]

Garnet: I feel sort of lost where I'm at, because I'm not good enough for the Christians, but I feel out of place with the non-religious crowd.

carmi: I think it is a very good and encouraging sign when you feel out of place with the non-religous crowd.

Garnet: Something I read one time really bothered me. It said that the feeling I got when I went to church sometimes, the one that made me want to sing and cry at the same time was just purely mental and emotional and had nothing to do with God. That was one of the few things that made me think I was really in touch. But now I can't shake the feeling that I'm just trying to pretend I feel something when I don't.

carmi: love is an emotion. God loves us, we love Him. And His love can overwhelm us. Don't let others dismiss the feelings you have at times. The shortest verse in the Bible is: Jesus wept. I am not sure whether I can state it like this but I would say that Jesus had strong emotions at times. I think of the account of Lazarus, and of course Gethsemane. Hours before His betrayal He spoke a long discourse on love - it was a very spiritual message but I'd say also a very emotional one.

Garnet: I want to believe so very badly. But how do you know that you're a believer? I mean, it sounds like a stupid question. I want to believe in Jesus. I agree with the principles of Christianity, and I believe a lot of the historical facts that support Jesus' story. But how do you know that you really believe? I mean, how do I know that I haven't just convinced myself that I believe just to keep from going to hell?

carmi: I got saved because I did not want to go to hell. It was not just a feeling but it was more of a fact to me that the way I was living my life, I could not get myself out of hell. No matter how hard and what I tried, I did fall again and again. I made mistakes over and over again. And we know that we have to pay for our mistakes eventually. It was very good news for me when I was told that Jesus Christ gave His life for me as a payment. The Bible uses in this context somewhere the word ransom.

In short, I knew I was heading for hell. I knew I did not want to go there. And then one day the one Way out of hell was represented to me. And I took it. I wish I could say that I loved God so much that I wanted to be with Him (which I do, don't get me wrong ... I do love Him and I do want to spend eternity in His presence) but I got saved because I was very, very selfish. I did not want to go to hell. If not going to hell meant believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and accepting Him as my Lord and Saviour, well than that was the Way, the Solution.

Feelings can change, your life's circumstances can change - but your position with God does not change. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. Nothing. Not even your feelings or the lack thereof.

garnet: I want to be a Christian, and I've asked Jesus to be part of my life so many times, but sometimes it just feels like no one's listening and that I'm missing something.

carmi: I am really not sure whether you are missing something. Some times people attach different interpretations to a wording. But Jesus Christ said that if we ask Him, He will come into our life - He does not just want to be part of our life. He is our life. Through Him we have eternal life. The Lord Jesus Christ speaking "I in them" ...

But maybe you meant that, you said it and you are writing it here differently. You need to ask Him only once ... you remember a time where you asked Him to come into your life, accepted Him as your Saviour? One time is sufficient. If you repeat this request, you might not be feeling anything or feel He does not hear you because He already heard you the first time. Once you invite Him into your heart, He stays there. You might wander off, fall back, turn your back on Him ... however He stays right where He is. This is for example one of the reasons why you feel uncomfortable in the non-religious crowd. Because the Holy Spirit is working on you, is gently pulling you away.

Garnet: I don't understand what people are talking about when they say that "God told me to do this" or "God laid it on my heart."

carmi: I am saved for 18 years now and I still don't know how people can be so sure. That does not mean they are lying or deceiving themselves - that might be the case. God knows He has to shut a door for me to understand His "no". Very rarely do I respond to His promptings.

And maybe God is prompting you each time you feel uncomfortable in a non-religious crowd, for example.

Garnet: For instance - earlier on this forum, I ran across a verse that I go to sometimes when I'm feeling overwhelmed by sin: Isaiah 43:18-19, which basically says to let the past go and look to the new things God is doing. And I was like, "yeah, thanks God for showing me this right now." But part of me is just saying "you just wanted to see something like that, so you picked up on it."

carmi: There you have more examples how God is talking to you - at least I believe that God is leading you to read verses you need. Just as God is leading a believer to post something on this forum for you or anybody else to read.

 

[Johnnz]

Some good authors are Ravi Zacaharias, Chuck Colson, Lees Strobel. Deppending on your interests and questions there a good books on many specific issues.

John
NZ