Feminist Marraiges

[NothingIsImpossible]

Eh, as always we will agree to disagree. We both know there is biblical evidence for both arguments though. But what couples choose to do is up to them, we still have to answer to God for it all. Including myself. I broke my own rule about staying silent on topics like this. I won't break it again... hopefully.

 

[Neal82]

My wife and I have been married a little over a year. We met during our sophomore year in college, and instantly hit it off. Anyway, one of the thing we learned about ourselves is that we were both feminists, not in the crazy radical sense that men are inferior to women, but that men and women were equal. I was wondering if anyone else here has a feminist marriage? If so, what does that look like and mean to you? Here's what it means to us...

1) We are both equal in our relationship, neither one of us is the head of the other. Our decisions are made by reaching a mutual agreement, and our roles divided by who is better at said thing. There have been plenty of times where we both have submitted to the other's choice.

2) My father-in-law did walk my wife down the isle, but when asked "who gives this woman away?" He replied "Herself, her mother, and I." We didn't really see it as her becoming a part of my family, but us joining each other's family and starting our own. We did say the traditional vows, but left out "obey".

3) Throughout our relationship, we both have taken the other person out. As we got further along in the relationship, we would take turns paying for the meals or whatever we were doing. Now that we're married, we still toy with each other about whose turn is it to pay, but still take the other person out on dates.

4) I proposed to her. I also asked for her dad's permission, to which he (who is also feminist like his daughter) replied "You don't need my permission. You do have my blessing." I did wear a ring at times, not so much out of equality but more to get used to wearing a ring on my finger.

5) I took her last name. This was really more of a personal issue than a feminist issue, though feminism did influence my thought process into "you know, this in an option." I never really belonged in my family, and even then less so on my dad's side of my family, and she noticed the same thing. We both decided that both of us felt more apart of her family than my own, and so we decided that I would take on her last name.

I also do understand that there are a lot of misconceptions out there about feminism, which is also why I wanted to make this thread. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I don't want this to turn into a debate about what the meaning of Ephesians 5:22 and Colossians 3:18, and so will not respond to any questions/posts regarding those verses.

I've never described it that way but since my wife and I are both feminists (and very happily married, I'll add) we could call our marriage a "feminist" one.

 

[LinkH]

1) We are both equal in our relationship, neither one of us is the head of the other.

So it sounds like a 'feminist marriage' starts of contradicting scripture, since the Bible teaches that the husband is the head of the wife.

In marriage, the husband is to act in a way that depicts Christ, and the wife in a way that depicts the church. Christ and the church have different roles.

5) I took her last name. This was really more of a personal issue than a feminist issue, though feminism did influence my thought process into "you know, this in an option." I never really belonged in my family, and even then less so on my dad's side of my family, and she noticed the same thing. We both decided that both of us felt more apart of her family than my own, and so we decided that I would take on her last name.

And I'm reading this and still thinking why? why?

I also do understand that there are a lot of misconceptions out there about feminism, which is also why I wanted to make this thread. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I don't want this to turn into a debate about what the meaning of Ephesians 5:22 and Colossians 3:18, and so will not respond to any questions/posts regarding those verses.

Unless board rules have changed, discussions of Biblical roles for wives are pretty much off topic in the forum, though comments against what these scriptures teach seem to be made from time to time.

 

[LinkH]

Here's a joke.

An egalitarian marriage is a marriage where the husband always gets the last word.

















"Yes, dear".

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Here's a joke.

An egalitarian marriage is a marriage where the husband always gets the last word.

"Yes, dear".

 

[LinkH]

Fathers giving their daughters in marriage is a Biblical thing. Jesus even mentioned it. The part of the western marriage ceremony... 'who gives this woman' acknowledges that.

I'm surprised at how quickly Christians will deny or oppose things that are Biblical in favor of relatively recent philosophies. The husband being the head of the wife is Biblical. Fathers giving their daughters away is Biblical.

The idea that both genders are the same, have the same role in marriage, etc. is not Biblical.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Well thats america for you. I pray for our country more then I do others. I remember an atheist told me once that christians can't seem to make up their mind over time. He said american christians 100 years ago were against marrying outside your own race. But they changed that. They were against homosexual marriage. BUt they are changing their views on that too now. Likewise how marriage works is also changing.

 

[ValleyGal]

Fathers giving their daughters away was a cultural thing, not a command. In fact, they didn't give them away - there was a dowry paid to the father, so in essence, the father was selling their daughter.

 

[All4Christ]

Well thats america for you. I pray for our country more then I do others. I remember an atheist told me once that christians can't seem to make up their mind over time. He said american christians 100 years ago were against marrying outside your own race. But they changed that. They were against homosexual marriage. BUt they are changing their views on that too now. Likewise how marriage works is also changing.

Stating that American Christians are changing views on homosexual marriage and on how marriage works is a big generalization. Certain groups stay the same with subjects like that (and theology) over the centuries moreso than other groups.

LinkH is right though about it being strange for the forum to allow promoting one view but not allow promoting the other. It should be either both or neither.

I think there could be some helpful information as to how different types of marriages can be healthy not only with egalitarian relationships but also with the more traditional version. Both sides can be manipulated into an unhealthy relationship, but there are healthy ways to follow those concepts. The traditional view isn't always making the woman subordinate to the husband nor is it always demeaning as many seem to think.

IMHO, it should be either both allowed or neither. Keep standards consistent.

 

[98cwitr]

I dont see the OP situation as feminist, just anti-patriarchal...which I think matches my own marriage between my wife and I. We each have our own liberties, views, opinions, interests, and whats great is that we both support each other in them. That said, marriage also comes with it's own obligations and duties. Those duties are sometimes separated by gender, and I'm okay with that as well. To say that a marriage is "feminist" would, at least to me, seem that the woman holds some domineering role over the man. I haven't really met a woman yet who really wants this other than the gold-diggers looking to control the assets. I like that my wife and I are both open and honest with each other, and as long as there is room for compromise I wouldn't worry too much about what other people say. Equality between the sexes has been a long road coming, and I'm glad that we are reaching that pinnacle. It's the "men are awful and we don't need them" feminists that really need to see the forest for the trees and need to get the chip off their shoulder. That said, what happen to men being men? Girls are chasing the boys around these days...how and when did that happen?

 

[Boidae]

And I'm reading this and still thinking why? why?

My wife and I are divorcing, and if I get remarried, depending on her last name, I may take it. I have a friend, her last name is Maria (a wonderful Italian last name) and if her and I were to marry (just an example) I would easily take her last name.

Mine, being Jones, is too plain and too common.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

I've always found marriage itself to be a sexist institution. Never really liked the idea of it... Women being given away by their fathers to young men, taking said man's last name and bearing children for him. Something about that is just really very chauvinist and in that respect not my cup of tea. I think a monastery may be a better life for me.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I've always found marriage itself to be a sexist institution. Never really liked the idea of it... Women being given away by their fathers to young men, taking said man's last name and bearing children for him. Something about that is just really very chauvinist and in that respect not my cup of tea. I think a monastery may be a better life for me.

Well a father giving away his daughter doesn't mean anything really. Its just a in wedding act, its not like hes literally giving his daughter away. As for the last name, keep your own. And bearing children... well not sure how to fix that one. Women have the parts to give birth, men don't. Avoiding marriage is one way of doing all that of course, but overall if anyone wants to get married but wants to avoid something like giving birth because it feels sexist... not sure what to do because as a woman you don't have a choice since guys can't give birth.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Well a father giving away his daughter doesn't mean anything really. Its just a in wedding act, its not like hes literally giving his daughter away. As for the last name, keep your own. And bearing children... well not sure how to fix that one. Women have the parts to give birth, men don't. Avoiding marriage is one way of doing all that of course, but overall if anyone wants to get married but wants to avoid something like giving birth because it feels sexist... not sure what to do because as a woman you don't have a choice since guys can't give birth.

Well, I'm not sure why you're concentrating on the 'giving birth' part when I explicitly said 'giving birth for him' part and expressed how the children are 'his' in the context of the relationship. It's not the unsexist parts about giving birth that I'm altogether upset about, it's the sexist parts: the notion that the children belong to the man, that they carry his name, that the woman is singularly a domesticated child-bearer with virtually very little social life outside this private arrangement.

 

[Armoured]

My wife and I have been married a little over a year. We met during our sophomore year in college, and instantly hit it off. Anyway, one of the thing we learned about ourselves is that we were both feminists, not in the crazy radical sense that men are inferior to women, but that men and women were equal. I was wondering if anyone else here has a feminist marriage? If so, what does that look like and mean to you? Here's what it means to us...

1) We are both equal in our relationship, neither one of us is the head of the other. Our decisions are made by reaching a mutual agreement, and our roles divided by who is better at said thing. There have been plenty of times where we both have submitted to the other's choice.

2) My father-in-law did walk my wife down the isle, but when asked "who gives this woman away?" He replied "Herself, her mother, and I." We didn't really see it as her becoming a part of my family, but us joining each other's family and starting our own. We did say the traditional vows, but left out "obey".

3) Throughout our relationship, we both have taken the other person out. As we got further along in the relationship, we would take turns paying for the meals or whatever we were doing. Now that we're married, we still toy with each other about whose turn is it to pay, but still take the other person out on dates.

4) I proposed to her. I also asked for her dad's permission, to which he (who is also feminist like his daughter) replied "You don't need my permission. You do have my blessing." I did wear a ring at times, not so much out of equality but more to get used to wearing a ring on my finger.

5) I took her last name. This was really more of a personal issue than a feminist issue, though feminism did influence my thought process into "you know, this in an option." I never really belonged in my family, and even then less so on my dad's side of my family, and she noticed the same thing. We both decided that both of us felt more apart of her family than my own, and so we decided that I would take on her last name.

I also do understand that there are a lot of misconceptions out there about feminism, which is also why I wanted to make this thread. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I don't want this to turn into a debate about what the meaning of Ephesians 5:22 and Colossians 3:18, and so will not respond to any questions/posts regarding those verses.

I'm with you pretty much for all this.

 

[squirrel123]

I've always found marriage itself to be a sexist institution. Never really liked the idea of it... Women being given away by their fathers to young men, taking said man's last name and bearing children for him. Something about that is just really very chauvinist and in that respect not my cup of tea. I think a monastery may be a better life for me.

Well, I think a strictly Catholic marriage (especially one where the woman is expected to have a baby per year) IS sexist, but a Christian marriage need not be. Although it was custom in biblical times, the scriptures do not command that a father gives away his daughter. I don't think it even occurred to my dad that I was his to give away. Taking a man's last name is neither a requirement, nor does it mean you are now his possession - it merely signals to the world that you are a family. The husband's position of head of the house does not give him permission to lord over the wife either, unless you take pieces of scripture out of context. And as for bearing children for the man - well, it's only the Catholics who still ban contraceptives, and if and when you do decide that you want to start a family, the children aren't "his" - they're little human beings entrusted to both of you by God, to bring up to the best of your ability.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Well, I think a strictly Catholic marriage (especially one where the woman is expected to have a baby per year) IS sexist, but a Christian marriage need not be. Although it was custom in biblical times, the scriptures do not command that a father gives away his daughter. I don't think it even occurred to my dad that I was his to give away. Taking a man's last name is neither a requirement, nor does it mean you are now his possession - it merely signals to the world that you are a family. The husband's position of head of the house does not give him permission to lord over the wife either, unless you take pieces of scripture out of context. And as for bearing children for the man - well, it's only the Catholics who still ban contraceptives, and if and when you do decide that you want to start a family, the children aren't "his" - they're little human beings entrusted to both of you by God, to bring up to the best of your ability.

It's not just that attitude which I believe is sexist, it's secular attitude as well. Women I know in the office who became married suddenly found themselves unable to acquire promotions because their employers considered that their primary goals would be home-makers. One woman that I know was in the process of applying for a job in foreign correspondence and when it became known that she was recently married the job suddenly became unavailable to her. Men don't have to deal with being husbands in the same way - it's simply assumed that marriage domesticates women. The late historian Alan Bray has argued that in the middle ages marriage sat amongst a web of non-biological/kinship relationships and wasn't afforded the centrality it has today in defining a persons worth in society. It's upsetting that relationships today are so shallow and one dimensional - there are no elaborate rites of brother-making and sister-making wherein people find lifelong fulfilment, there are work colleagues and spouses.

 

[squirrel123]

It's not just that attitude which I believe is sexist, it's secular attitude as well. Women I know in the office who became married suddenly found themselves unable to acquire promotions because their employers considered that their primary goals would be home-makers. One woman that I know was in the process of applying for a job in foreign correspondence and when it became known that she was recently married the job suddenly became unavailable to her. Men don't have to deal with being husbands in the same way - it's simply assumed that marriage domesticates women. The late historian Alan Bray has argued that in the middle ages marriage sat amongst a web of non-biological/kinship relationships and wasn't afforded the centrality it has today in defining a persons worth in society. It's upsetting that relationships today are so shallow and one dimensional - there are no elaborate rites of brother-making and sister-making wherein people find lifelong fulfilment, there are work colleagues and spouses.

Well, that just sucks. I don't know where you are, but I guess I'm very fortunate to not have to deal with those attitudes here.

I would hate to be defined by the fact that I'm somebody's wife.

Sadly, I don't have any real advice for that. All I can say is I'm sorry that employers can still get away with what I consider blatant discrimination, where you live...

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Sadly, I don't have any real advice for that. All I can say is I'm sorry that employers can still get away with what I consider blatant discrimination, where you live...

My too. And I guess it's one of the reasons why I'll never get married, I would hate to put anyone through something as degrading as this.

 

[Armoured]

especially coming from someone with a brain injury,

Aww, broad brushes. I had a massive pontine stroke some years back. I'm technically brain damaged with an ABI, but all cognitive testing suggests my standardised IQ is the same as it ever was. Yes, yes, anecdotal, single data points aren't conclusive of anything, but felt it worth mentioning.