PrettyboyAndy

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I view fasting the same way I view prayer and since Pink and Gill have said it better than I could ever hope I'll quote them. (Just substitute fasting for prayer and you'll get the gist.)

A. W. Pink, “…what is now being taught on the subject of prayer, and the deplorable thing is that scarcely a voice is lifted in protest. To say that “human destinies may be changed and moulded by the will of man” is rank infidelity—that is the only proper term for it. Should any one challenge this classification, we would ask them whether they can find an infidel anywhere who would dissent from such a statement, and we are confident that such an one could not be found. To say that “God has ordained that human destinies may be changed and moulded by the will of man”, is absolutely untrue. “Human destiny” is settled not by “the will of man,” but by the will of God. That which determines human destiny is whether or not a man has been born again, for it is written, “Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God”. And as to whose will, whether God’s or man’s, is responsible for the new birth is settled, unequivocally, by John 1:13—”Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but OF GOD”. To say that “human destiny” may be changed by the will of man, is to make the creature’s will supreme, and that is, virtually, to dethrone God. But what saith the Scriptures? Let the Book answer: “The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: He bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. The Lord maketh poor, and maketh rich: He bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory” (1 Sam. 2:6-8). Link

John Gill provides a proper theological background to prayer, “…it should be said that God’s will is immutable, and cannot be altered by our crying. When the mind of God is not toward a people to do them good, it cannot be turned to them by the most fervent and importunate prayers of those who have the greatest interest in Him—”Then said the Lord unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before Me, yet My mind could not be toward this people: cast them out of My sight, and let them go forth” (Jer. 15:1). The prayers of Moses to enter the promised land is a parallel case.

Our views respecting prayer need to be revised and brought into harmony with the teaching of Scripture on the subject. The prevailing idea seems to be, that I come to God and ask Him for something that I want, and that I expect Him to give me that which I have asked. But this is a most dishonoring and degrading conception. The popular belief reduces God to a servant, our servant: doing our bidding, performing our pleasure, granting our desires. No; prayer is a coming to God, telling Him my need, committing my way unto the Lord, and leaving Him to deal with it as seemeth Him best. This makes my will subject to His, instead of, as in the former case, seeking to bring His will into subjection to mine. No prayer is pleasing to God unless the spirit actuating it is, “not my will, but thine be done”.

“When God bestows blessings on a praying people, it is not for the sake of their prayers, as if He was inclined and turned by them; but it is for His own sake, and of His own sovereign will and pleasure. Should it be said, to what purpose then is prayer? it is answered, This is the way and means God has appointed, for the communication of the blessing of His goodness to His people. For though He has purposed, provided, and promised them, yet He will be sought unto, to give them, and it is a duty and privilege to ask. When they are blessed with a spirit of prayer, it forebodes well, and looks as if God intended to bestow the good things asked, which should be asked always with submission to the will of God, saying, Not my will but Thine be done

______________________________

As you can see prayer and fasting are meant to bring us into subjection to the will of God. It's a dying of self to the creator who is Sovereign over all, who is to be trusted and loved. We are to accept Christ's will, renew our minds to the revealed will of God in the scriptures by seeking to think God's thoughts after him. Does this mean we shouldn't pray or fast? Of course not. It simply means that God is Lord of Lords, King of Kings and to be given our faith and trust in humble thanksgiving.

Amen.

j

I agree,

But if God's will is God's will, what's the point of praying or fasting, unless my prayer and fasting is the means in which he accomplishes his will
 
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JM

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I agree,

But if God's will is God's will, what's the point of praying or fasting, unless my prayer and fasting is the means in which he accomplishes his will

Do you vote?

Why?

The Bible instructs us that all the powers that be are ordained by God Himself (Rom. 13:1, Prov. 8:15, Dan. 4:25, 35). God ordained the Liberal Party to take power in Canada, He ordained the exact number of votes…does that let us off the hook for voting? Of course not. We will give an account for all that we do or fail to do. (1 Pet. 4:5)

Do you pray?

God knows what you will ask for before your pray (Matt. 6:8) and before you even call He answers, so why pray? (Isa. 65:24) Should we stop praying? Of course not. We are instructed to pray. (Lk. 18:1, 2 Thess. 1:3, James 5:17)

Should we stop planting since God has promised that the harvest will never cease? (Gen. 8:22) Of course not for we are told that we only harvest what we plant. (Pro. 20:4, Gal. 6:7)

Should we try to stay healthy by eating healthy and exercising if our death is appointed by God (Heb. 9:27)? We will only live so long, as long as God ordained… (Psalm 91:7, Gen. 27:2) so what point is there in staying healthy?

I'm trying to say that God ordains means by which His perfect will is accomplished. We fast because God has placed that on our hearts from eternity to do so.

The London Baptist Confession Chp. 3:1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

1
Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

A Commentary on scriptural theology contained in the 1689.

Yours in the Lord,

j
 
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4x4toy

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Fasting until you are weak is a fairly relative practice and one that I agree with. Just remember that some will only take 24 hours before they are weak and others days. For me, a 24 hour fast really does the trick....not to mention I do all the cooking in my house, the added temptation is unreal!

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: Chew gum (for bad breath due to fasting) and slowly reduce your caffeine before you fast.

Ha , I've chewed gum and went outside to spit the sugar out until I was only left with gum , even that will wear your jaws .. gargling with drugstore hydrogen peroxide is an awesome germ killer and kills bad breath too , just be careful not to swallow any
 
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PrettyboyAndy

• Andy •
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Do you vote?

Why?

The Bible instructs us that all the powers that be are ordained by God Himself (Rom. 13:1, Prov. 8:15, Dan. 4:25, 35). God ordained the Liberal Party to take power in Canada, He ordained the exact number of votes…does that let us off the hook for voting? Of course not. We will give an account for all that we do or fail to do. (1 Pet. 4:5)

Do you pray?

God knows what you will ask for before your pray (Matt. 6:8) and before you even call He answers, so why pray? (Isa. 65:24) Should we stop praying? Of course not. We are instructed to pray. (Lk. 18:1, 2 Thess. 1:3, James 5:17)

Should we stop planting since God has promised that the harvest will never cease? (Gen. 8:22) Of course not for we are told that we only harvest what we plant. (Pro. 20:4, Gal. 6:7)

Should we try to stay healthy by eating healthy and exercising if our death is appointed by God (Heb. 9:27)? We will only live so long, as long as God ordained… (Psalm 91:7, Gen. 27:2) so what point is there in staying healthy?

I'm trying to say that God ordains means by which His perfect will is accomplished. We fast because God has placed that on our hearts from eternity to do so.

The London Baptist Confession Chp. 3:1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

1
Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

A Commentary on scriptural theology contained in the 1689.

Yours in the Lord,

j


God is Sovereign, But there is also a multitude of verses similar to these ones:

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”

27 The man asked him, “What is your name?” “Jacob,” he answered. 28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[a] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.” Genesis 32:26-28

Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you. James 4:10

These might not be the best examples, but I see a lot of If you will ... than I will... in the Bible.

I'm going to fast a new thread on this bc its not related to fasting
 
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twin1954

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I agree,

But if God's will is God's will, what's the point of praying or fasting, unless my prayer and fasting is the means in which he accomplishes his will
In Ezek. 36 God tells Israel that He shall do several things and that they shall do several things. It wasn't a matter of if or unless they are simple statements of facts where God tells what is going to happen without fail. Yet in verse 36 and 37 the Lord says that He has spoken it and that He will do it and yet the He will be inquired of ( prayer) by the house of Israel to do it for them.

(Eze 36:36) Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

(Eze 36:37) Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them;
 
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