Family Fights $18K Verizon Bill.

[pgp_protector]

You're using Too many Capital letters Here. I'm Beginning to Question your Understanding of anything Here.

Just A Typing Habit I've Got, Been Doing It For Years In Both My Code & Presentations.

Though It Doesn't Effect My Understanding, If You Think A Typing Habit Effects Understanding, Well I Can't Help You With That.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Just A Typing Habit I've Got, Been Doing It For Years In Both My Code & Presentations.

Though It Doesn't Effect My Understanding, If You Think A Typing Habit Effects Understanding, Well I Can't Help You With That.

I actually Like it. It makes One focus More on what is Being said. Kind of Like an Optical illusion or Something.


I hope no one questions whether I'm joking or not now!!
*sheesh*

I have an English degree and did some journalism. So I spot stuff like this.
Were you using something like title case?
How to Write in Title Case: Rules for Capitalizing and Lowercasing Words in Titles and Subtitles

 

[Drekkan85]

Don't Forget The Fine Print, Of Shipping And Handling
(That And It Not Being Included In The Refund If You Decide You Don't Like It)


The One's I Love Are The Supplements For The Fruit Of The Month.

Get A Free 30 Day Trial, Quit At Any Time

Though If You Read What You're Agreeing To Buy Ordering It, The 30 Days Start When You Order It, Not When It Ships, And They'll Auto Process Your Next Order In Two Weeks (At $50 Or More) After You First Order It.

Actually, it's things like that which led to regulatory changes in Canada. By statute, if you get something like "Book of the month" in the mail that includes a statement like "Return within 2 weeks and no cost, otherwise, we charge $X" the statement has no effect. IIRC that is.

 

[Umaro]

Since no one here was interested in my contract experiment with the burgers, I ran it asking the students at my college. They were presented with the menu below, and asked to predict the price of the plain burger, then to calculate the actual cost.

Everything Burger Calories:n/a Price $8
Plain Burger Calories 500 Price $0.012/calorie
Cheese Calories 100
Lettuce Calories 100

1)$5 $6
2)$5 $6
3)$6 $6
4)$6 $6
5)$5 $6
6)$6 $6000
7)$6 $6
8)$6 $6

Notice only one person actually correctly determined the cost of the plain burger. Everyone else's answer was close to their prediction, which would lead you to think your math is correct even when it is not. If I was to set up a booth for a day, and sell 7 burgers to these students for $42,000, would you protect my business because they did not read the contract close enough?

 

[pgp_protector]

Well for one, I'd wonder about your honesty, stating that Lettuce has 100 Calories.
Or are you putting 15 Cups of Chopped Lettuce on the Hamburgers?


How many calories are in Lettuce, iceberg (includes crisphead types), raw

 

[Umaro]

Well for one, I'd wonder about your honesty, stating that Lettuce has 100 Calories.
Or are you putting 15 Cups of Chopped Lettuce on the Hamburgers?


How many calories are in Lettuce, iceberg (includes crisphead types), raw

I just picked whole numbers. The point of those two was so I could explain to the participants why the Everything burger was a discount. That number is irrelevant to the experiment, in that they were only asked the price of a plain burger.

Would you defend my business?

 

[pgp_protector]

I just picked whole numbers. The point of those two was so I could explain to the participants why the Everything burger was a discount. That number is irrelevant to the experiment, in that they were only asked the price of a plain burger.

Would you defend my business?

The Number is Irrelevant ?
Aren't you arguing that a Markup that isn't spelled out is bad, yet you're willing to mark up your Values by by over 30 Times just for your Lettuce (Given even 1/2 a cup on a burger is a lot) isn't an issue because it's just an "example"

So you can trick people/ give false information, and it's fine, But a Company that spells it out, is a Con man?

Are you saying Verizon is a Conman

That is exactly what I am saying. Verizon is selling to this family for $18,000 what they are selling to someone else at $40. That difference is not a service discount, it is a punishment. If I use my grocery store membership, I get 50c off, not a 450x discount.

 

[Umaro]

The Number is Irrelevant ?
Aren't you arguing that a Markup that isn't spelled out is bad, yet you're willing to mark up your Values by by over 30 Times just for your Lettuce (Given even 1/2 a cup on a burger is a lot) isn't an issue because it's just an "example"

So you can trick people/ give false information, and it's fine, But a Company that spells it out, is a Con man?

Do you understand how designing an experiment works? It's designed to test one hypothesis, and otherwise be as simple as possible. In this experiment, the point was to see if the subjects could accurately calculate the price of a plain burger. However, to accurately reflect a bulk discount(unlimited plan), add-ons to the plain burger are necessary. Rather than listing every item you can put on a burger to push it over the $8 mark, I lumped them into two common toppings. The number is not important because the only relevant part of the experiment is what the subject calculated the price of a plain burger to be, which was $6 most of the time. I could have left those two toppings out of the experiment, and the result would be the same. So yes, they are irrelevant.

And even then, the students agreed to the terms of the contract, so its further irrelevant. There was no misrepresentation on the cost per calorie.



So would you defend my business if that is how much I charged for a burger? The students just didn't read the contract close enough. If they took me to court for the $6000 true cost, would you defend me?

 

[pgp_protector]

Do you understand how designing an experiment works? It's designed to test one hypothesis, and otherwise be as simple as possible. In this experiment, the point was to see if the subjects could accurately calculate the price of a plain burger. However, to accurately reflect a bulk discount(unlimited plan), add-ons to the plain burger are necessary. Rather than listing every item you can put on a burger to push it over the $8 mark, I lumped them into two common toppings. The number is not important because the only relevant part of the experiment is what the subject calculated the price of a plain burger to be, which was $6 most of the time. I could have left those two toppings out of the experiment, and the result would be the same. So yes, they are irrelevant.

And even then, the students agreed to the terms of the contract, so its further irrelevant. There was no misrepresentation on the cost per calorie.



So would you defend my business if that is how much I charged for a burger? The students just didn't read the contract close enough. If they took me to court for the $6000 true cost, would you defend me?

I'd defend your right to charge what you want, as long as what you're charging is spelled out correctly.

Also they wouldn't be taking you to court, you would be taking them to court for failure to pay the bill.

 

[Umaro]

I'd defend your right to charge what you want, as long as what you're charging is spelled out correctly.

Also they wouldn't be taking you to court, you would be taking them to court for failure to pay the bill.

I'm looking for a more direct answer. If you were on a jury, and I brought those 7 students before you and demanded $42,000 for 7 hamburgers, would you rule in my favor?

 

[pgp_protector]

I'm looking for a more direct answer. If you were on a jury, and I brought those 7 students before you and demanded $42,000 for 7 hamburgers, would you rule in my favor?

Show me the contract first.

 

[Umaro]

Show me the contract first.

Everything Burger Calories:n/a Price $8
Plain Burger Calories 500 Price $0.012/calorie

 

[pgp_protector]

Everything Burger Calories:n/a Price $8
Plain Burger Calories 500 Price $0.012/calorie

This Contract states that it's $0.012/calorie
If the Calories are 500 then it would be $0.012/500 = $0.000024

So I would side with the Defendant in this case if you were charging them $42,000 for 7

 

[Umaro]

This Contract states that it's $0.012/calorie
If the Calories are 500 then it would be $0.012/500 = $0.000024

So I would side with the Defendant in this case if you were charging them $42,000 for 7

Using the American systems of measurement, 1 Calorie is equal to 1 kilocalorie, or 1,000 calories. The students did not convert their units. They only learned about these measurements a few years ago even.

 

[Drekkan85]

This Contract states that it's $0.012/calorie
If the Calories are 500 then it would be $0.012/500 = $0.000024

So I would side with the Defendant in this case if you were charging them $42,000 for 7

I do believe the notation of .012/calorie is a fairly standard notation for .012 per calorie. Just as m/h is "Miles per Hour". So in this case it's not .012/500 but rather .012*500.

ETA: Indeed, I too forgot to convert my units. So rather .012*500*1000. That's $6000 per burger. Which results in $42,000 for 7.

 

[pgp_protector]

Using the American systems of measurement, 1 Calorie is equal to 1 kilocalorie, or 1,000 calories. The students did not convert their units. They only learned about these measurements a few years ago even.

The given you're still Dividing by it ($0.012/calorie), reduce the figure by another 1000 to $0.000000024

Though you contract states calorie, not Calorie (Lower case "c")

 

[pgp_protector]

I do believe the notation of .012/calorie is a fairly standard notation for .012 per calorie. Just as m/h is "Miles per Hour". So in this case it's not .012/500 but rather .012*500.

Remember we're looking at their "Contract" though.
and it can be taken either way, given it's not spelled out.

 

[Umaro]

The given you're still Dividing by it ($0.012/calorie), reduce the figure by another 1000 to $0.000000024

Though you contract states calorie, not Calorie (Lower case "c")

What are you talking about? Maybe I'm underestimating how much we need to improve funding to math education.

$0.012/cal = $0.012 per 1 calorie

 

[pgp_protector]

What are you talking about? Maybe I'm underestimating how much we need to improve funding to math education.

$0.012/cal = $0.012 per 1 calorie

the "/" sign can also mean Divided by, you didn't spell that out in your contract.

 

[Drekkan85]

Remember we're looking at their "Contract" though.
and it can be taken either way, given it's not spelled out.

Except if you look at the common law precedent it doesn't turn out that way. Don't assume anything about how the law of contracts works based on mass media. In this case, we have a standard system of notation, and a standard expectation of how markets work.

Of course, if you don't concur, if you ever drive in Canada where the signs say the speed limit is 55m/hour and get caught speeding you can try and argue "But officer, I was only driving for 10 minutes so I could go 550 miles in that time and still be under the posted sign".

Of course, you might be asked to take a psych eval and you'd still get your ticket, but you could ask for it.

Judges aren't stupid.