false theology and the CED debate

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rmwilliamsll

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I would find it blasphemous to think that the Holy Spirit would use false theology in order to convert the lost.
If this you're idea were true, at what point would God draw the line?
from: http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=22486043&postcount=4
amen, keep preaching it brother, oops, he's YEC *grin* he means me=false. *ouch*

this is my first blog entry today, the quote is from the YEC protected forum where debate is not allowed. but it shows in a really nice way things that i've been thinking about.


first: is a quote from someone online a few months back: "30% of everything i believe is wrong, the problem is that i don't know what 30%, that will be your problem to find out" he attributed it to a well respected seminary prof that started each class out with the statement. and you know, he has a lower % then most of us do, i know i'd be happy to be shown to be 70% right, actually 51% would be nice.

second: i have a really high tolerance for ambiguity and uncertainty, in most things. my wife OTOH really hates uncertainity. it looks a lot like basic personality types. i know enough history that teaches me that people err, that theologies are revised and that i believe things that would cause reformed theologians of just 100 years ago to doubt my salvation. likewise i expect my grandchildren to look back to my life and wonder how any one so well read believed such stupid, rediculous ideas.

back to the quote above.

The Holy Spirit uses false theology all the time to save people, in fact, all theology has falsehoods in it(does less then 100% make it false? or just containing falsehoods? good question). everyone, even reformed theology which is truer than anything else *grin*, false theology is all we human have. everything we touch, we taint with sin. everything we believe is distorted by our continual(and continuing) selfishness and emity with God. absolutely true theology, like Jesus Himself is in heaven, not on earth. on this side of the Judgement we are all sinners saved by grace and that not of yourself, but a gift of God. We didn't weave the robes of righteous, we can't clean them, all we can do is stain them with our sins.

now what does this have to do with the CED debate?

my stand on creation-evolution is not a point of salvation, Jesus' active obedience and righteousness even to his sacrifice on the Cross is. does my stand on Gen 1 effect my theology? of course it does. as the quote asks "where does God draw the line?"
on the nature and work of Christ.
not whether we believe Adam was historical, or if his body was created from an evolved ape or just patterned after one. Is the doctrine of federal headship important? of course it is, but despite the fact that i am TE i bet i'm one of the most convinced of covenant theology on this board. does covenant theology save me? nope, Jesus does.

i'd remind the YECists, even in a conservative church, you will probably be sharing a pew with a TE some Sunday, maybe not every service but a few. or do you want to have a theology test before you can enter the sanctuary? even then i'd bet 80% of any of our church's members couldn't pass even the simplest test. does that mean we are a dumbed down church? no, it is just realistic, it is a description of this world we live in.

perhaps we best ought to leave that drawing of lines up to God a little bit more. and just discuss the issues rather than if XXX is saved. is the CED debate adiaphora? no, is it essential? no. it is important, that is why we all spend time here and reading about it.

but to go to the OP from the thread i quoted from. YECists will find that their stance will drive educated people away from the faith, they ought to be well convinced that these doctrines are: really true, really worth the cost associated with tying them so closely to the essential salvation issues of the Faith. perhaps to hold them a little looser, perhaps to entertain the notion that these things might be among the 30% wrong would help.

and thanks for the quote, it started my thinking day off just right.
 

FreezBee

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rmwilliamsll said:
first: is a quote from someone online a few months back: "30% of everything i believe is wrong, the problem is that i don't know what 30%, that will be your problem to find out" he attributed it to a well respected seminary prof that started each class out with the statement.

Yes, this kind of things start you thinking. For instance, what if the belief "30% of everything I believe is wrong" is itself among those 30%, what then?

- FreezBee
 
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rmwilliamsll

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FreezBee said:
Yes, this kind of things start you thinking. For instance, what if the belief "30% of everything I believe is wrong" is itself among those 30%, what then?

- FreezBee

it would put it into the self referential catagory, like the cannibal jokes which lead to _Godel Escher and Bach_ except that if it is in the false part, since it is quantified, like for some, you can just change the %. a true self referential statement has to be in the form of all or none. like "all cretans are liars" signed---a cretan poet.


(if it is false, then it could be 50% is wrong, you could just be wrong as to the %)
 
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1denomination

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FreezBee said:
Yes, this kind of things start you thinking. For instance, what if the belief "30% of everything I believe is wrong" is itself among those 30%, what then?

- FreezBee
hahaha funny




Nice read williams, This crevo thing reminds me of a situation I recently encoutered at a church I was attending.

The story goes like.........A couple of the members apparently had this problem with alcohol(of any form), and they wanted to ammend the church creed to include " in order to be a member of the church a member should refrain for alcohol", so I told them that the scriptures really didn't support their view and in fact I on occasion had a glass of wine with my meal. :doh: So the pastor informed me that I was not welcomed there for fear that I might teach the children my belief(I was the youth pastor) :sigh: well.............thats the short version anyway.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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1denomination said:
hahaha funny




Nice read williams, This crevo thing reminds me of a situation I recently encoutered at a church I was attending.

The story goes like.........A couple of the members apparently had this problem with alcohol(of any form), and they wanted to ammend the church creed to include " in order to be a member of the church a member should refrain for alcohol", so I told them that the scriptures really didn't support their view and in fact I on occasion had a glass of wine with my meal. :doh: So the pastor informed me that I was not welcomed there for fear that I might teach the children my belief(I was the youth pastor) :sigh: well.............thats the short version anyway.

i had the good pleasure of teaching a Sunday School class last summer on the history of American Presbyterianism. (http://dakotacom.net/~rmwillia/hap0.html)
one of the topics that i had to give short time to, despite the interestingness of it, was the temperance movement. it is surprising how strong people's committment is to something that is allowed in Scripture. i have only to review the topic of "two wines" to realize how wrong Christians have been about topics in the past, and how i really have to be aware of that with my ideas.

thanks for the example. i hope you found another church to work it.
 
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1denomination

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rmwilliamsll said:
i hope you found another church to work it.
Well since you asked this whole thing almost cost me my faith. Sadly I was destroyed by the account. It has taken me the better part of a year to over it. Funny thing is they never did ammend that creed and they have asked me to return just dont know if I can, gonna take some praying:prayer: .And although I have visited someother churches I just cant find any plase that feels like home. So I have no Idea what I'm going to do. ..........................Here's praying the lord will just work it out.
 
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