Falling Away?

[Avid]

... backslidden Christians ...

Do you have a scripture to reference your use of this term?

The preachers of centuries past knew all about what you are saying here, and had a different term for these people. They called them "Professors of Christianity," "Christian Professors," or in the case you mention, "Fruitless Professors."

T H E
BARREN FIG-TREE;
OR,
THE DOOM AND DOWNFALL OF THE FRUITLESS PROFESSOR:
SHOWING, THAT THE DAY OF GRACE MAY BE PAST WITH HIM
LONG BEFORE HIS LIFE IS ENDED;
THE SIGNS ALSO BY WHICH SUCH MISERABLE MORTALS MAY BE KNOWN.

BY JOHN BUNYAN

London, 1688.

http://www.achristianspirit.com/BarrenFig.html


A Warning to Professors
Or
The GREAT GUILT OF THOSE WHO ATTEND
ON THE ORDINANCES OF DIVINE WORSHIP,
AND YET ALLOW THEMSELVES
IN ANY KNOWN WICKEDNESS

by Jonathan Edwards

http://www.achristianspirit.com/Wicked.html
​

It is important to be true to the scriptures, and this area is even more important, because souls are at stake.

 

[iLove]

There is a difference between being a sinner and sinning. Sinning does not make you a sinner. The sin nature makes you a sinner. When you were born again you received a new nature. So stop saying, "I am a sinner saved by grace". It is true that you were saved by grace. Because you were saved by grace you are a new creation in Christ Jesus. When you got saved you received a new nature - Gods nature. Sin can not change your new nature. I am not justifying sin because sin destroys lives. However sin can not change your new nature. You are right with God because what Jesus did. And sin can not undue what Jesus did.

 

[Avid]

There is a difference between being a sinner and sinning. Sinning does not make you a sinner...

Could you provide scripture references that show this point being made? There should be something that you use to back up such a point.

 

[OzSpen]

There is a difference between being a sinner and sinning. Sinning does not make you a sinner. The sin nature makes you a sinner. When you were born again you received a new nature. So stop saying, "I am a sinner saved by grace". It is true that you were saved by grace. Because you were saved by grace you are a new creation in Christ Jesus. When you got saved you received a new nature - Gods nature. Sin can not change your new nature. I am not justifying sin because sin destroys lives. However sin can not change your new nature. You are right with God because what Jesus did. And sin can not undue what Jesus did.

How is it that the apostle Paul could write to Timothy, 'The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost' (1 Tim 1:15)?

He did NOT say, 'to save sinners of whom I WAS the foremost'. Paul, the saved believer, acknowledged that 'I AM the foremost' of sinners.

 

[Avid]

.. Scripture is never wrong and I admire you and your stance ..

I was going the wrong way, having been confused and lied to by people who were more concerned that I like them, and came to Church, than whether my soul was lost or not. It was good sound teaching that honors the whole scripture of the Bible that turned me around.

The point I make, and stance I take here, is PURELY that the scriptures say differently than people do much too often. It is vital to souls that hang in the balance that they seek the truth from God's own word.

 

[iLove]

How is it that the apostle Paul could write to Timothy, 'The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost' (1 Tim 1:15)?

He did NOT say, 'to save sinners of whom I WAS the foremost'. Paul, the saved believer, acknowledged that 'I AM the foremost' of sinners.

SINNERS ARE NOT SAVED...Paul makes this very clear in 1 Timothy 1:12-17 NIV

The Lord’s Grace to Paul

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[iLove]

Could you provide scripture references that show this point being made? There should be something that you use to back up such a point.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his nature remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 NKJV

 

[OzSpen]

iLove,

SINNERS ARE NOT SAVED...Paul makes this very clear in 1 Timothy 1:12-17 NIV

The Lord’s Grace to Paul

12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.

15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

To the contrary, 'but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us' (Rom 5:8).

 

[iLove]

iLove,


To the contrary, 'but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us' (Rom 5:8).

This is true. People don't go to hell for their sins, they go to hell for rejecting Jesus. So if you reject Him, you reject the payment for your sins.

 

[Avid]

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV means you can't sin your salvation away, however you can renounce it. You can reject your faith. God had made it so difficult to do unless you meet the five qualifications mentioned in this scripture as a mature Christian and ignorance does not count. So it is possible but God has made it extremely difficult...

It will be helpful to consider the context more fully. There are couple of related verses (the last two in that paragraph) that you should not leave out.

The writer has made it clear these are people who are separated for burning. The plot of land that is covered with thorns and briers is rejected, and will be burned in the end. This is a purging of the things that offend.

Hebrews 6
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
​

Notice the writer of Hebrews states that which beareth... He is not only talking about the thorns and briars being burned, but that which beareth them as well. The Apostle Peter states it a different way, and that reference is included below.

Confusion may arise over these things concerning whether or not this is about getting a reward. Souls that that are in need of understanding may think they can get away with playing with sin, because everyone does it. The very verse you used to answer my other question shows a different view than most people are thinking is true.

Take note of how this verse in II Peter compares to the verse quoted in your reply. It seems we have a world full of people, many are churchgoers as well, who think the verse you quoted was an optional thing, and that what Peter states does not pertain to them!

I John 3
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

II Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Exodus 32
33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Deuteronomy 29
18 Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, butI will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
​

It is important to note that this is God's word, and not an opinion being put forth for comparison with other opinions. Those set aside by God to be burned are not people who cannot sin away their salvation!!! Those who are blotted out are not going to be rewarded by God, but are going to be rejected by God. It is shown in both ends of the Bible as quoted above.

 

[Avid]

... People don't go to hell for their sins, they go to hell for rejecting Jesus...

Please consider the whole scripture, and see that SIN, and OUR SINS are also part of why we would go to Hell. Is UNBELIEF a sin? It is important to have a clear answer for that.

Isaiah 5
11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!
12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
​

Thousands of years ago, people went to Hell for sin, and because they died IN THEIR SIN.

Ezekiel 33
9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
​

We should be careful not to confuse the issue of SIN and SINS being against God, and being the cause of Man's alienation from God.

Romans 8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
​

People inherit their sin nature from their parents (the father specifically,) and are carnal, fleshly and motivated by the EGO (fallen nature of man) to sin, to be in sin and under sin. The whole creation feels the effects, and is waiting to be delivered from the effects since the fall of man.

The point of unbelief and rejecting the ONLY remedy for sin being the cause of people being rejected of God is true. It is a problem for them, however, because of SIN, SINS and their SIN NATURE.

Man separated himself from God, and it was Jesus Christ that made a way for Man to be reconciled with God. Before that, the souls of ALL people went into the heart of the Earth when they died. The righteous were awaiting the way of their reconciliation with God to be made by Jesus Christ after His death, burial, resurrection, ascension and the presentation of His blood before God. The remainder went there to be tormented. (Luke 16:19-31)

 

[Avid]

... For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, = Unbelief, you do not believe Jesus is the finial sacrifice for your sins. Which means there are no more sacrifices.

Is Unbelief a sin?

Hebrews 3
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
​

There was discussion elsewhere on these forums, and the question was left as to whether unbelief was a sin, or was not a sin. It is important to have this established clearly.

 

[Blade]

SpockTheVulcan


Take angels.. even though there is no redemption for them I hope this will help. Take satan and the 1/3 of heaven that fell with him. They have seen that have touched they have tasted the holiness of God and His power

There are those that have touched walked in the POWER OF GOD! They do not question Him they know Him. They KNOW Jesus came Jesus died for the world for there sins. They have tasted. Now if they walk away from Him.. to bring one like that back.. is almost impossible.

You are not defined by a sin. If you know Jesus as lord..there is no condemnation to them that are in Him. You want Him.. you I am sure repented.. those have tasted so to speak.. dont ever question they new they knew Him..

 

[iLove]

Is Unbelief a sin?

Hebrews 3
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
​

There was discussion elsewhere on these forums, and the question was left as to whether unbelief was a sin, or was not a sin. It is important to have this established clearly.

Many Jewish people rejected Jesus blood as the sacrifice for sin. They went back to the old covenant sacrifices (Hebrews 10:26-29).

Once they rejected the blood of Jesus, there were no more sacrifices left for them. They willfully sinned by deciding to reject Jesus, thereby they operated in UNBELIEF.

A person who rejects Jesus can be restored only if he or she repents.

Under the new covenant of grace, we must BELIEVE ONLY!