faith icons

[ContraMundum]

I never liked the Faith Icons. Probably never will.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Dan?....coincidence?

Perhaps the story was written after the 12 tribes existed. pursuing as far as Dan is stating how far Abraham pursued to the land of Dan...

Look at what you said... Perhaps the STORY (the Torah) was written after... If a story were written after, then the completion of the text cannot have been before. Does this have no import to you?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Are there anymore?...I believe the new testament was tweeted here and there. .are you saying sI was the old testament?

Yes. Of course.

(1) The naming of the city of Dan at the end of Joshua versus its appearance in the book of Genesis (well before the conquest of the land of Canaan).

(2) The use of "at that time" (Heb. אז) to describe the time when the Canaanites lived in the land, as if they didn't live there when the Torah was written.

(3) The use of the word "prophet" (Heb. נביא) as someone who saw visions and gave messages from a deity. The term before the time of Saul was "seer" (Heb. חוזה or רואה) rather than "prophet" - which means that the Torah was written after "prophet" became a popular term for the job of a "seer." Before that time, a "prophet" was a traveling musician with religious inspiration (and it is in the old usage of the word that Miriam was called a "prophetess" when she was singing at the head of the women).

(4) The inclusion in Deuteronomy (and only there) of a command not to offer sacrifices anywhere but in Jerusalem - which command has its origin in the time of the divided kingdom when they were combatting the northern tribes for attention in their particular form of Yahwistic religion.

There may be other major issues that indicate that the Torah was composed at a later time and was not a product of Moses' hand, but I've been up for two days and am not functioning at 100%. It's now 9pm in Israel, and I'm going to go to bed to be up again at 2am to catch a morning flight to Paris.

לילה טוב
Good night.
YM

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I never liked the Faith Icons. Probably never will.

Yes, but it does make identifying the heretics easier.

 

[dfw69]

Look at what you said... Perhaps the STORY (the Torah) was written after... If a story were written after, then the completion of the text cannot have been before. Does this have no import to you?

Lol I'm not disagreeing with you.. just wondering how far does the rabbit hole goes.

 

[dfw69]

Yes, but it does make identifying the heretics easier.

There is no such thing as heritics. .just the misinformed

 

[dfw69]

Yes. Of course.

(1) The naming of the city of Dan at the end of Joshua versus its appearance in the book of Genesis (well before the conquest of the land of Canaan).

(2) The use of "at that time" (Heb. אז) to describe the time when the Canaanites lived in the land, as if they didn't live there when the Torah was written.

(3) The use of the word "prophet" (Heb. נביא) as someone who saw visions and gave messages from a deity. The term before the time of Saul was "seer" (Heb. חוזה or רואה) rather than "prophet" - which means that the Torah was written after "prophet" became a popular term for the job of a "seer." Before that time, a "prophet" was a traveling musician with religious inspiration (and it is in the old usage of the word that Miriam was called a "prophetess" when she was singing at the head of the women).

(4) The inclusion in Deuteronomy (and only there) of a command not to offer sacrifices anywhere but in Jerusalem - which command has its origin in the time of the divided kingdom when they were combatting the northern tribes for attention in their particular form of Yahwistic religion.

There may be other major issues that indicate that the Torah was composed at a later time and was not a product of Moses' hand, but I've been up for two days and am not functioning at 100%. It's now 9pm in Israel, and I'm going to go to bed to be up again at 2am to catch a morning flight to Paris.

לילה טוב
Good night.
YM

Sleep well my friend...peace

 

[pat34lee]

I like to refer to two things: (1) the word אז "at that time" with reference to the Canaanite clans, and (2) the name of the place where Abraham chased those who had kidnapped Lot.

Do you think it possible that much of Genesis was passed down either orally or in some written form, and the names were changed when necessary over time?

Why would someone continually refer to the old name of a place when everyone knows it by its new name?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Do you think it possible that much of Genesis was passed down either orally or in some written form, and the names were changed when necessary over time?

Why would someone continually refer to the old name of a place when everyone knows it by its new name?

Because they also received the book of Joshua and should have known that the place was called Laish. You're suggesting the text can be changed. Why don't we update it today?

 

[pat34lee]

Because they also received the book of Joshua and should have known that the place was called Laish. You're suggesting the text can be changed. Why don't we update it today?

I see no problem in translating a place name and adding "now known as zzz" or "later known as zzz". In many bibles, that is already part of the notations.

As for Genesis and Joshua, they could have been written decades or a century or more apart. Would you expect them to update place names every time a town was renamed or wiped out and rebuilt under another name? That could have been a big job as the number of books increased.

 

[Lulav]

Yes. Of course.

(1) The naming of the city of Dan at the end of Joshua versus its appearance in the book of Genesis (well before the conquest of the land of Canaan).

pursued them - the victorious Asiatics - unto Dan - which is here substituted for its older name Laish, for which vide Joshua 19:47 (Ewald), though regarded by some as not the Laish Dan conquered by the Danites, but probably Dan-jaan, mentioned in 2 Samuel 24:6 (Havernick, Keil, Kalisch); against which, however, is the statement of Jose. phus ('Ant.,' 1:10), that this Dan was one of the sources of the Jordan. Murphy regards Dan as the original designation of the town, which was changed under the Sidonians to Laish (lion), and restored at the conquest. Clericus suggests that the Jordan fountain may have been styled Dan, "Judge," and the neighboring town Laish, and that the Danites, observing the coincidence of the former with the name of their own tribe, gave it to the city they had conquered. Alford is doubtful whether Dan-juan was really different from Laish.

 

[Lulav]

Yes. Of course.

(1) The naming of the city of Dan at the end of Joshua versus its appearance in the book of Genesis (well before the conquest of the land of Canaan).

(2) The use of "at that time" (Heb. אז) to describe the time when the Canaanites lived in the land, as if they didn't live there when the Torah was written.

(3) The use of the word "prophet" (Heb. נביא) as someone who saw visions and gave messages from a deity. The term before the time of Saul was "seer" (Heb. חוזה or רואה) rather than "prophet" - which means that the Torah was written after "prophet" became a popular term for the job of a "seer." Before that time, a "prophet" was a traveling musician with religious inspiration (and it is in the old usage of the word that Miriam was called a "prophetess" when she was singing at the head of the women).

(4) The inclusion in Deuteronomy (and only there) of a command not to offer sacrifices anywhere but in Jerusalem - which command has its origin in the time of the divided kingdom when they were combatting the northern tribes for attention in their particular form of Yahwistic religion.

There may be other major issues that indicate that the Torah was composed at a later time and was not a product of Moses' hand, but I've been up for two days and am not functioning at 100%. It's now 9pm in Israel, and I'm going to go to bed to be up again at 2am to catch a morning flight to Paris.

לילה טוב
Good night.
YM

Do you view that in light of Jeremiah 8:8?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Do you view that in light of Jeremiah 8:8?

No.

 

[Lulav]

No.

I think it's relevant and to dismiss that would be remiss.

 

[Lulav]

Well at least they have something now, no icons, but you now have this:

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Although I think that Christian is a general usage for all denoms (not faiths) but I'll have to check on that.

 

[servant of Merciful Love]

I just spotted this reply by the Supervisor on CF Move Q&A Thread and thought I'd let you know.

I think we're sticking with just the fields that say the faith icons.

Have a blessed day