Explain sola scriptura to me

Root of Jesse

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Sola scriptura means that everything is tested by Scripture. That’s a bit different than saying that everyone starts from scratch to develop their own theology from Scripture. There is theological tradition, based on theological scholarship. At least in the confessional churches, this fact is acknowleged.

What sola scriptura does is say that in principle all theology has to be supported by Scripture. So you can always challenge tradition. In principle this means that Protestant churches can correct themselves more easily than the Catholic tradition. How well that works out in practice you’ll have to judge for yourself. I tend to be a bit skeptical. I think it’s a good theory, but it’s not so often practiced well.

If things were working properly, we should see a single Protestant tradition, or maybe a few major traditions, making continuing adjustments in theology. In practice there are some groups that work that way, but the usual reality is much messier. Changes tend to happen by creating new groups, not by continuing reformation of existing ones. And new groups seem to happen as often due to someone’s hare-brained idea as genuine new understanding.

I’d claim, however, that the mainline churches have done a reasonable job of implementing the stated strategy. They have been willing to change, but change has generally been based on real new scholarship. An encouraging sign is that those changes have tended to bring the major traditional theological approaches together.
If what you say here is true, then we agree. All our doctrine is supported by Scripture. None of our doctrine is anti-Scriptural. The only difference is that we believe that God still speaks through the Pope, the Magisterium, and Sacred Tradition, as well as Sacred Scripture.
 
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FireDragon76

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In fairness to my Catholic brothers, I do not for a minute believe they make the Scriptures subservient to their Church. They see Scripture as part of the Church. It would be like saying your heart is more important than your brain. Well, Sola Scriptura sometimes comes across as "all you really need is that brain, the heart isn't necessary"... You don't want to be playing Frankestein with the Bible, which is what many Christians are doing with their faith.

I simply believe they understand what the Church is differently than me. I admit I don't completely understand what exactly the Church is, either. But I do know some ideas are crazier than others- I believe the Church has visible features and does the same things throughout history, and it's not praise bands and a forty minute lecture.
 
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Standing Up

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I don't believe that's official Lutheran teaching.

I don't see how the Great Councils and the Bible do not agree. The major points of the councils such as Nicea and Chalcedon follow logically from the Biblical witness.

The attitude that I can go and use the Bible as a "religion construction set" apart from historic Christian witness is not even scriptural. Obedience to apostolic witness is implicit in the scriptures, and the apostles taught and laid hands on their successors (such as blessed Polycarp, bishop and martyr). If it were not so, there would be no body of Christ today and no Bible. Even if we want to say that Scriptures are the sole infallible norm, that does not preclude the witness of the early and medieval Church being useful in matters of controversy to identify the apostolic faith.

That's the point. At the time, they thought every part of their canons were true.

There's all sorts of tradition. SS is simply providing the sole infallible norm by to judge tradition.
 
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South Bound

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How is it a lie to ask for someone to explain sola scriptura?

Nobody, to my knowledge, has said that it is.

I don't have to explain why many Catholics don't agree with Catholic teaching.

But it's our responsibility to explain why people don't agree with Biblical teaching?

There's not 240 divisions in Catholicism.

The same source Catholics use to dishonestly claim that there are "23k, 30k, 33k denominations" (Catholics have a hard time keeping the lie straight, so the number changes every day) lists 240+ divisions within Catholicism.

None of which says anything about Sola Scriptura.

Actually, they each address sola scriptura. I realize, as a Catholic, it's your knee jerk reaction to not be able to discuss things rationally, but for you to claim they don't address sola scripture when literally each one of them addresses the authority of scripture is just silly. Typical of Catholics, but silly.
 
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FireDragon76

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OK, then we aren't in disagreement.

But I still see that people interpret Scripture differently, so we need extra-Scriptural reasoning, appeals to tradition and theology to work these things out.

It's not fair to say Catholicism has divisions. Catholicism has one confession of the same faith. Of course there are disagreements, but Catholics do not see themselves as having "another faith", merely different levels of adherence to the same faith, or different interpretations of certain secondary matters. Like it or not, Protestants have real disunity, they are not united. The more I have read about Lutheranism, which I previously knew little about (beyond reading some of Luther previously), the more obvious it is. In some was Lutheranism is very much unlike the Reformed churches, and more like Roman Catholicism.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Nobody, to my knowledge, has said that it is.
You did. "Why do Catholics have to lie..." More truthfully, nobody can define Sola Scriptura, speaking for the entire protestant world. You have your definition, someone else has theirs and so on.
But it's our responsibility to explain why people don't agree with Biblical teaching?
No, it's not. It's my responsibility to live my faith, and to help others learn it. But you can lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink it. The Catholic Church proposes a way of life, many choose not to live it.
The same source Catholics use to dishonestly claim that there are "23k, 30k, 33k denominations" (Catholics have a hard time keeping the lie straight, so the number changes every day) lists 240+ divisions within Catholicism.
But there are umpteen thousand Protestant denominations. Every member of any non-denominational church is a denomination unto himself.
Actually, they each address sola scriptura. I realize, as a Catholic, it's your knee jerk reaction to not be able to discuss things rationally, but for you to claim they don't address sola scripture when literally each one of them addresses the authority of scripture is just silly. Typical of Catholics, but silly.

None of them says anything about Scripture alone. End of story. They say that our doctrines must be tested by Scripture, and they ALL are.
 
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Catherineanne

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I'm not sure I understand the doctrine of sola scriptura. How is it not a recipe for religious individualism that undermines the very concept of "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church"? It seems a great many conservative, confessional churches deny that Scripture needs any authoritative interpreter or context (tradition) to understand it. And yet, if this were so, why couldn't Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and the Anabaptists, and the hundreds of other Protestant sects agree on the "plain meaning of Scripture"?

I am probably not the best person to comment on this, but that has never stopped me before.

Sola Scriptura is an example of great irony; it attests to the Primacy of Scripture, without a scrap of Scripture to justify such a point of view. Everything in Scripture points to Christ as the Cornerstone of our faith; not the Bible. When I ask for written texts to support SS, I am generally offered texts speaking of Christ as the Word of God. I do not think that God would be too impressed with that.

It has (rightly, imo) been said by NT Wright that the Reformation did not go far enough. It simply replaced a human Pope with a paper one.

As an Anglican I am not expected to believe in SS, for the simple reason that it is not plainly written in Scripture. Look for yourself; it is not there.
 
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Catherineanne

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fhansen

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What's the point there? That some people who are educated can still make mistakes with interpreting Bible passages...but church leaders of one denomination (but not any others) cannot?

I think that theory needs a little work, frankly.
it means that all people: educated, uneducated, and anywhere in between are easily confused over the meaning of Scripture, while the church is not, where it pertains to salvation.
 
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fhansen

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Every false religion, cult, and the like presents the inquirer with absolutely air-tight conclusions and defenses for its particular POV. It takes some sophistication or maturity, or something like that, to realize that not every iota of every religious question that the mind of Man can think up has to have an explicit answer in Scripture. What is in Scripture is what is necessary for us for purposes of our salvation, not everything that God knows.
Yes, and? No one said otherwise. Some scriptural teachings are vague, some less so, some are more essential than others-and the church, in fact, teaches that this is so.
 
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fhansen

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No, actually it was you. And I was frankly surprised that you inserted the Roman Catholic church into your response when there had been no mention of it from me. ;)
I doubt you were surprised. Either way the CC was your primary target.
 
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Standing Up

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I am probably not the best person to comment on this, but that has never stopped me before.

Sola Scriptura is an example of great irony; it attests to the Primacy of Scripture, without a scrap of Scripture to justify such a point of view. Everything in Scripture points to Christ as the Cornerstone of our faith; not the Bible. When I ask for written texts to support SS, I am generally offered texts speaking of Christ as the Word of God. I do not think that God would be too impressed with that.

It has (rightly, imo) been said by NT Wright that the Reformation did not go far enough. It simply replaced a human Pope with a paper one.

As an Anglican I am not expected to believe in SS, for the simple reason that it is not plainly written in Scripture. Look for yourself; it is not there.

There's a number of places where the bible says something in effect that "this is written, so you might believe, and believing, be saved".

No where does it say, get a council or a magisterium together so you might be saved.
 
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fhansen

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There's a number of places where the bible says something in effect that "this is written, so you might believe, and believing, be saved".

No where does it say, get a council or a magisterium together so you might be saved.
No it just said, in Acts, that they did get a council together, to decide upon the truth, ostensibly so that it may be preserved and protected and you and I may still be hearing it some 2000 years later.
 
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Catherineanne

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There's a number of places where the bible says something in effect that "this is written, so you might believe, and believing, be saved".

No where does it say, get a council or a magisterium together so you might be saved.

Synods are not about salvation, but about matters of church doctrine or procedure. The path to salvation does not need a Synod as Christ made it perfectly clear. Unlike much else, which remains for Synod to determine.

And the method is indeed laid down in Scripture, most clearly and more than once. Here is just one example, but I am sure you will find many more.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/18-20.htm
 
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MoreCoffee

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Synods are not about salvation, but about matters of church doctrine or procedure. The path to salvation does not need a Synod as Christ made it perfectly clear. Unlike much else, which remains for Synod to determine.

And the method is indeed laid down in Scripture, most clearly and more than once. Here is just one example, but I am sure you will find many more.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/18-20.htm
Church councils did manage to declare what was in error as well as what was truth; thus the councils condemned Arianism and the other early heresies about the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Their anathemas make it abundantly clear that one cannot hold the catholic faith whole and entire while proclaiming error about these matters. As time went on other errors arose and councils answered them with definitions of truth and anathemas against error. In the Catholic Church the process has continued to your times. In the East of the Roman Empire the process ended with the seventh ecumenical council and from then on only synods dealing with eastern issues were called.
 
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Catherineanne

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Church councils did manage to declare what was in error as well as what was truth; thus the councils condemned Arianism and the other early heresies about the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Their anathemas make it abundantly clear that one cannot hold the catholic faith whole and entire while proclaiming error about these matters. As time went on other errors arose and councils answered them with definitions of truth and anathemas against error. In the Catholic Church the process has continued to your times. In the East of the Roman Empire the process ended with the seventh ecumenical council and from then on only synods dealing with eastern issues were called.

You are welcome to your views.

: )
 
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MoreCoffee

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Returning to the thread's topic ... sola scriptura need not result in the abandonment of church councils, creeds, or the writings of the early church fathers but it has a tendency to be appealed to when somebody wants to do so. "Where's that in the bible?" is the constant refrain on the finger tips of some post writers in GT. And when holy writ is quoted it is often perfunctorily dismissed and some other passage is proffered as proof of the beliefs expressed. Thus relying on scripture alone quickly degenerates in many discussions to reliance on one's opinion about the meaning of one's favourite verses alone as the sole infallible source of dogma and morals. And that is, of course, a worse situation than is alleged to be the error of the ancient churches in relying on holy tradition along with holy scripture; the former interpreting the latter and the latter being the primary source of divine revelation to the faithful in God.
 
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Albion

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it means that all people: educated, uneducated, and anywhere in between are easily confused over the meaning of Scripture, while the church is not, where it pertains to salvation.

...and it's the same PEOPLE making the decisions you accept! That's really either a very silly argument or else it's an attempt at a little trick with words that didn't succeed. :)
 
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