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Expell the immoral brother?

Discussion in 'House Churches & Cell Groups' started by newleaf, Dec 10, 2006.

  1. newleaf

    newleaf New Member

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    Has anyone here ever expelled the immoral brother? What are your thoughts on the following?
    1 Corinthians 5

    Expel the Immoral Brother!

    1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

    6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
    9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."[b]
     
  2. catlover

    catlover Guest

    There was a huge discussion on that on The Anabaptist board. You may want to check it out...

    http://www.christianforums.com/t4141512-thread-about-shunning-on-gt.html
     
  3. New_Wineskin

    New_Wineskin Contributor

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    I laugh at how this passage is applied nowafays .

    I have seen groups threaten to excommunicate people for the stupidest things . I then learn that adultry is quite rampant in christian circles but see absolutely no threads on that .

    The thing is , nowadays , threatening to expel someone doesn't do much good unless you have first made the thought of not being a part of the group the same as damning them to Hell . Many in home "churches" know more than anyone else that a) there is no law about needing to "go to church" , and b) there are plenty of other groups around if one is kicked out of their current group .

    Now , I have no problem in telling people to not come back if they are troublesome in some way . I don't consider that a passage is needed for that , though . Of course , patience is recommended .
     
  4. newleaf

    newleaf New Member

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    Yet, perhaps by refusing to eat with a so called brother/sister, who lives a life characterized by sin, will shame him/her into stopping.
     
  5. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

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    I beleive that is one of the intended results of church discipline.
     
  6. New_Wineskin

    New_Wineskin Contributor

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    That wouldn't do anything for me .
     
  7. InServicetoGod

    InServicetoGod New Member

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    MAYBE instead look to Jesus' teachings, parables (especially the prodigal son) and imagine how Jesus would not cast those out, but seek salvation for them.

    I know personally, those Christians whom I admire most are the ones who live a good example, to be something or someone that others would want to be....

    I would not expel the immoral, but teach him and help him learn the Right Path......After all, that would be more pleasing to God
     
    JulySheMustFly likes this.
  8. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

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    Won't Jesus be saying "depart from me, I never knew you"?

    There is a line that even Jesus draws.

    Additionally, God has those verses in His Word for a reason.
     
  9. gratis

    gratis New Member

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    But Jesus was not afraid to associate with sinners - why should we be any different?

    Should they not have help from others in the "church" to walk with them and be accountable too?
     
  10. catlover

    catlover Guest

    Good point, people think they can act like God and judge people...God is the judge, not us.
     
  11. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

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    Sinners are diferent than saints who continue to sin.

    We can not judge...hold accountable....those outside the Church. They are spiritually blind and it would be wrong, unjust, to hold them to a standard that they don't even know. It simply isn't our place. Certainly reach out to them and share the Gospel with them.

    However, someone in the Church is to be judged..held accountable. If they are just struggling with an issue, then hold them close, help bare their burden and encourage them. If they refuse to even acknowledge their sin and/or won't deal with it, we are to put them out and not even eat with them. Saints should know better, and if they don't then we show them what the Word says.


    This judgment is not a condemnation but a discerning.
     
  12. gratis

    gratis New Member

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    I understand, I agree also that a fellow believer who is caught in sin should dealt with. That believer though still needs to be dealt with in love, and throwing them from the church doesn't help. Asking them to step down from ministry should be done, in love but never ask them to leave the church. Where else would they go to get fed spiritually? Why of course they would delve deeper in sin and get fed from their sin.

    Also, the outsiders are watching the church carefully. We need to always be sure that our actions line up with the bible in proper context.
     
  13. mont974x4

    mont974x4 The Christian Anarchist Supporter

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    I understand, and its hard to deal with but it's what we are told to do in the Bible. As I said there must be a reason and I trust Gods judgment over my own.

    What do you think outsiders think when we see an adulterer in the church go unpunished? or a gossiper? a drunk? They know our standards and they think we are hypocrites because we give people a pass.

    Also, all sins should be treated equally. When was the last time the busy body gossip was held accountable? Yet, we'll slam the drunk or the adulterer?
     
  14. simplyg123

    simplyg123 New Member

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    first off i dont know how this thread got started but, a church should not be divided, we are told to act as one body, if you have an immoral person in the church, you have division in the church
     
  15. Jim47

    Jim47 Heaven Bound Supporter

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    If this is true, please show me one verse where Jesus said sin was O'k.

    Yes Jesus sought out sinners, but He also made them aware of their sin. Sin sperates us from God. Contrary to popular belief, God does not love sinners, He send them to hell. He wants us to turn from sin and live a life faithful to Him.

    Here are some bible passages:

    Lk 17:1 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come.
    Lk 17:2 It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.
    Lk 17:3 So watch yourselves.
    "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
    Lk 17:4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, ‘I repent,’ forgive him."



    Mt 18:15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
    Mt 18:16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
    Mt 18:17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
    Mt 18:18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
     
  16. catlover

    catlover Guest



    God cares more about the lost sinner than an alleged "non sinner". The story of the lost coin, sheep, and prodigal son shows that.


    "Now his elder son was in the field. As he came near to the house, he heard music and dancing. He called one of the servants to him, and asked what was going on. He said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and healthy.’ But he was angry, and would not go in. Therefore his father came out, and begged him. But he answered his father, ‘Behold, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed a commandment of yours, but you never gave me a goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this, your son, came, who has devoured your living with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.’ "He said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. But it was appropriate to celebrate and be glad, for this, your brother, was dead, and is alive again. He was lost, and is found.’"
     
  17. Jim47

    Jim47 Heaven Bound Supporter

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    Under what circumstances was the prodigal son welcomed back? He had repented, right? The same with the lost sheep, if the sheep hadn't repented he wouldn't have returned to the flock.
     
  18. gratis

    gratis New Member

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    I agree - the sin should be dealt with. In love, and never throwing people out of the church.
     
  19. gratis

    gratis New Member

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    I didn't say that Jesus said "sin was ok".

    I said Jesus was not afraid to associate with sinners - preaching his message of repentance and salvation - including love.
    Too often today the church is afraid of the sinner and shelters themselves - when this happens the gospel is not able to be presented to the unbeliever.
     
  20. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran

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    A few thoughts.

    Christans today are less comfortable with sexual sins than many others. Paul was not picking out a specific sin.

    The guy was probably someome with status, and few would feel able to address him on the issue. But his actions were not acceptable to the wider society either. They were too far into wrong to be tolerated. Thus, Paul advised as he did.

    Christans came together around a meal. Thus, not to eat with him was not to totally dissociate, but to forbid being publicly identified with believers when they met around Jesus.

    If sinners can't find a place within the community of Jesus we all had better leave. The point of the lost son story was that the father had not written his son off. The son could not enter back into his father's love for him without recognising his stupidity and going, home. But it was not his 'repentance' that bought about his father's love. That was there anyway.

    There is a paradox that some believers find hard to grasp. God cannot tolerate sin, and neither should we. But God has chosen sinners to be his representatives on earth i.e. people who are less than perfect. The paradox is met only when we extend something of God's love and grace to each other "Love covers a multitude of sins".

    We hav extended relationship, care, compassion and love to many who have been deemed 'backslidden' by other believers. We have seen God do amazing things over time in such people. We have had a small glimpse of the enormity and yet the gentleness of a Divine Parent's love for his creation. We all so desperatetly need that to have the courage to go on in our common life.

    John
    NZ
     
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