Ex gentile? All must be Torah observant

[yonah_mishael]

Wouldn't keeping the Torah make one appear Jewish, even if that is not their intent?

Not in the way that MJ interprets "keeping" the Torah.

 

[visionary]

Wouldn't keeping the Torah make one appear Jewish, even if that is not their intent?

Do the Sabbath keeping Baptist appear Jewish? How about the Church of God which also keep the feasts? Gentiles don't do it like the Jews. But they are as obedient as they congregation leads them to be. Some individuals within the group always do more. You find a lot of these individual Gentiles within Messianic Judaism keeping Torah better than the Jews.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

God says the Sabbath is a seal between him and HIS people.
4th Commandment, KEEP (protect, guard) the Sabbath.

That's a start........what does that have to do with judaism?

 

[big macher]

Do the Sabbath keeping Baptist appear Jewish? How about the Church of God which also keep the feasts? Gentiles don't do it like the Jews. But they are as obedient as they congregation leads them to be. Some individuals within the group always do more. You find a lot of these individual Gentiles within Messianic Judaism keeping Torah better than the Jews.

Point is Messianic Judaism observs Shabbos like Judaism where as what you posted they do observe Shabbos but not like Judaism. That's why it's called Messianic Judaism right?

 

[visionary]

Point is Messianic Judaism observs Shabbos like Judaism where as what you posted they do observe Shabbos but not like Judaism. That's why it's called Messianic Judaism right?

Some do not abide by the no light switch, no driving, in other words a lot of the "no" halacha of the orthodox branch.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

God says the Sabbath is a seal between him and HIS people.
4th Commandment, KEEP (protect, guard) the Sabbath.

That's a start........what does that have to do with judaism?

Depends what you mean by Judaism TBH...

Often when I use it, I refer to being an Israelite (or a converted gentile) who follows the Torah, as in the actual Torah as opposed to the Talmud or any other external teachings (which some people try to refer to as "torah" too).
Usually when you mention "Judaism" though, the majority of people understand the meaning to be Orthodox Judaism, that I wear a kippah and probably have long sideburn curls etc, when that's not what I mean at all.
Really though, Judaism is more of a blanket term, because it's accurate to say that Jesus/Yeshua taught Judaism, but he didn't teach what the Pharisees taught then and the rabbis teach today. It's also accurate to say that the rabbis today teach Judaism, and they generally totally reject Yeshua/Jesus and what he taught. Dark chocolate and white chocolate are all referred to as chocolate, but generally if you speak of chocolate, the listener will think of milk chocolate until you specify otherwise, that's more or less what happens with the word Judaism too.

Keeping the Sabbath is definitely a part of Judaism, it's one of the most important parts of the Torah that sets the people apart who love both the God of Israel AND their fellow man, and the people who just love their fellow man (as many un-believing gentiles definitely do, or at least try to do) alongside refraining from bowing to other gods (literally bowing to or praising statues and false gods, and handing over sovereign authority over you to other men that govern). This doesn't, however, mean that it's something that you have to belong to any specific sect of Judaism to join in, whether born Jewish (Israelite) or whether born gentile and you choose to follow the instructions in the Torah and follow them, including the sabbath, you can be said to be "Jewish" in faith and action, under the blanket term.

Do the Sabbath keeping Baptist appear Jewish? How about the Church of God which also keep the feasts? Gentiles don't do it like the Jews. But they are as obedient as they congregation leads them to be. Some individuals within the group always do more. You find a lot of these individual Gentiles within Messianic Judaism keeping Torah better than the Jews.

I agree - there are a lot of minor details within the Talmud that even bring the orthodox Jews to directly violate Torah. Let me give you an example, Leviticus 11 makes it completely clear that we are NOT to eat, or even touch the carcass of a pig (or any other unclean animal), and also of the clean animals, that we're only supposed to eat their flesh, not their fat, bones, blood etc.
In modern day Orthodox Judaism, it is taught that a Jew may eat foods containing pig gelatine, skin and bone, because it has been processed. They say that that since it has been processed to the point at which it no longer resembles being part of a pig, and has been made safe during the processing. Many foods and medicines containing these substances are certified Kosher, although they contain substances directly derived from the carcass of pigs, and while on a technicality, I can see their point that they're arguing, it is totally in violation if you take the Torah at face value, since it doesn't ever say "unless you heat it at 80 degrees and spin it around in a churn full of chemicals when you learn how to do so", it just says don't do it.

 

[ContraMundum]

D
In modern day Orthodox Judaism, it is taught that a Jew may eat foods containing pig gelatine, skin and bone, because it has been processed.

That's pretty rare. Almost every Rabbinic authority I know of on the planet takes a stricter ruling on that and forbids the eating of anything derived from trief animals.

To be fair, your point has in the past been put forward, but it doesn't have much traction in Judaism or MJism.

 

[yonah_mishael]

In modern day Orthodox Judaism, it is taught that a Jew may eat foods containing pig gelatine, skin and bone, because it has been processed. They say that that since it has been processed to the point at which it no longer resembles being part of a pig, and has been made safe during the processing. Many foods and medicines containing these substances are certified Kosher, although they contain substances directly derived from the carcass of pigs, and while on a technicality, I can see their point that they're arguing, it is totally in violation if you take the Torah at face value, since it doesn't ever say "unless you heat it at 80 degrees and spin it around in a churn full of chemicals when you learn how to do so", it just says don't do it.

Do you have documentation for this claim? It doesn't ring true to me. Treif animals may be used for other purposes, but certainly not for things that are to be digested by the body.

 

[visionary]

Do you have documentation for this claim? It doesn't ring true to me. Treif animals may be used for other purposes, but certainly not for things that are to be digested by the body.

What comes to mind is the tuna.. a "skin over very few scales" fish. Tuna skin is a bit thick but because of the few scales, it slides by as Kosher.

 

[BelieveTheWord]

What comes to mind is the tuna.. a "skin over very few scales" fish. Tuna skin is a bit thick but because of the few scales, it slides by as Kosher.

I haven't seen a tuna in real life. Do you consider it unclean?

 

[Lulav]

There are many varieties of 'Tuna' but they all have fins and scales.

 

[pat34lee]

Do you have documentation for this claim? It doesn't ring true to me. Treif animals may be used for other purposes, but certainly not for things that are to be digested by the body.

http://www.kashrut.com/articles/med/

 

[danny ski]

http://www.kashrut.com/articles/med/

Life is more important than commandments. We're not Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[visionary]

http://www.kashrut.com/articles/med/

Batul
Batul – to nullify. Batul refers to a situation when a small amount of one food is accidentally mixed into a larger amount of a different food. When the ratio is one part to 60 parts or less, the smaller ingredient is generally considered to be null and void.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Batul
Batul – to nullify. Batul refers to a situation when a small amount of one food is accidentally mixed into a larger amount of a different food. When the ratio is one part to 60 parts or less, the smaller ingredient is generally considered to be null and void.

I think you mean bitul (ביטול), the adjective of which is mevutal (מבוטל) and the verb is bitel (ביטל). The word batul (בתול) means "virgin."

 

[visionary]

ooops.. thanks

 

[pat34lee]

Life is more important than commandments. We're not Jehovah's Witnesses.

Does that mean you agree or you didn't read the link?

 

[danny ski]

Does that mean you agree or you didn't read the link?

I gave it a quick look. I'm well aware of exceptions and permissions.

 

[Pentateuch and Yeshua]

Do you have documentation for this claim? It doesn't ring true to me. Treif animals may be used for other purposes, but certainly not for things that are to be digested by the body.

Well, I know that Kosher certified gel capsule medication exists in Israel, and some sweet food, my primary source being an Israeli Jew who responded to my shock with "if you were living in Israel you would understand it is Kosher" [sic] and i have google searched the subject and found support for the Talmud permitting such practice and as such I do not take "Kosher" to mean "definitely Leviticus 11 Clean" any more.