Ex gentile? All must be Torah observant

yonah_mishael

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To clarify, remove Rabbinic Judaism and its extra-biblical traditions,
and you have Hebrew Roots. One Law and Two House are more prevalent
in HR than MJ, but not mandatory. Yeshua was Jewish without following
Rabbinic Judaism.
In other words, it is your contention that Hebrew Roots is essentially the same as biblical Judaism (with Jesus added, of course)?
 
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pat34lee

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In other words, it is your contention that Hebrew Roots is essentially the same as biblical Judaism (with Jesus added, of course)?

I'm saying that the goal of Hebrew Roots is to get back to the original faith as taught to
the disciples by Yeshua. The faith that began in Genesis.
 
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yonah_mishael

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I'm saying that the goal of Hebrew Roots is to get back to the original faith as taught to
the disciples by Yeshua. The faith that began in Genesis.
So many assumptions there. Muslims also think that Adam was a Muslim. Oh well...
 
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Pentateuch and Yeshua

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Converted gentiles are sojourners and become Israelites.
Aren't African Americans now just considered Americans, just with a different heritage? I would say Sojourners are the same.

A lot of Europeans and Hispanics* are probably Jewish (Israelite) and don't know it. Most of the Israelites that followed Yeshua were killed or force-converted into Christianity by the Romans, and Pharisees hijacked the Torah with the Talmudist teachings, which claim that Jewishness is carried through the mother and not the father (what part of "seed of Abraham do they not understand?... The Greek and Babylonian priests who became the first generation Pharisees NEEDED to teach this in order for their sons to be considered Israelites though), meaning that a lot of the Israelites began to believe that they were gentiles and sojourned among the gentiles in Europe and became Christians. If you feel drawn to the Torah and believe that you are a gentile, you may not be.


*In fact there are Israelites of all backgrounds, nationalities and races, all nations are blessed by the seed of Abraham. That was one of the main purposes of the 2000 year exile, besides punishment.
 
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Pentateuch and Yeshua

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I have no idea... What state are African Americans part of? It's not a question that I can point to any specific verse and give a definite answer to, mate!

If I were to make an educated guess, however, I'd say that there are three possibles depending on the variable determiners:
1. If they're in the land of Israel, then they become part of the tribe whose land they inhabit.
2. If they marry an Israelite, they take on the tribe of the spouse.
3. If neither of the above is true, they join Yehudah/Judah, through following Yeshua.
 
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Shimshon

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Is not the holy spirit leading you? You're implying that he led you as a gentile to convert as an israelite but he didn't indicate which tribe?
1. If they're in the land of Israel, then they become part of the tribe whose land they inhabit.
2. If they marry an Israelite, they take on the tribe of the spouse.
3. If neither of the above is true, they join Yehudah/Judah, through following Yeshua.
Where did Torah teach this? Are you not simply creating your own interpretation while rejecting the existing one? If the Spirit is leading you to convert as Israel don't you think he would not have you guess on how that functions? He makes you part of Israel this you understand, but you don't understand how you fit in with the existing body?
 
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Pentateuch and Yeshua

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Oh no, not one of you lot. I'm not interested in pharisical false dichotomy trick questions based on your Pauline theology.

And um, no, I am a Jew, I was born a Jew, but nice try trying to misrepresent me and put words in my mouth. Hurray for the 'ignore' function!
 
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Shimshon

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Oh no, not one of you lot. I'm not interested in pharisical false dichotomy trick questions based on your Pauline theology.
So you came into a Messianic Judaism forum because you're not interested in conversation with Messianic Jews?
 
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Shimshon

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Oh no, not one of you lot. I'm not interested in pharisical false dichotomy trick questions based on your Pauline theology.
Let the record show that it was you who threw the first punch here. So, I'm beginning to grasp that you promote a form of British Israelism? You claim to be born a Jew, but you reject Judaism? I've done that before. Most Jews do. It's our life test. First fascination, then disillusionment, then rejection, then apathy, then a draw, then fulfillment. It's the same process as growing up for all.
 
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yonah_mishael

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First fascination, then disillusionment, then rejection, then apathy, then a draw, then fulfillment. It's the same process as growing up for all.
Good insight.
 
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Open Heart

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I have no idea... What state are African Americans part of? It's not a question that I can point to any specific verse and give a definite answer to, mate!

If I were to make an educated guess, however, I'd say that there are three possibles depending on the variable determiners:
1. If they're in the land of Israel, then they become part of the tribe whose land they inhabit.
2. If they marry an Israelite, they take on the tribe of the spouse.
3. If neither of the above is true, they join Yehudah/Judah, through following Yeshua.
Converts to Judaism do not have a tribal affiliation. They are simply members of the children of Israel.

Today most Jews except the Kohanim don't have a tribal affiliation. It's not that big of a deal.
 
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Open Heart

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Oh no, not one of you lot. I'm not interested in pharisical false dichotomy trick questions based on your Pauline theology.
You reject Paul? Are anti Paul posts even allowed on CF?
 
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Shimshon

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Converts to Judaism do not have a tribal affiliation. They are simply members of the children of Israel.

Today most Jews except the Kohanim don't have a tribal affiliation. It's not that big of a deal.
Yes, it's not that big of a deal within modern Judaism who has adjusted their halachot to deal with living in the diaspora. A convert is a Jew. But did Yeshua come to convert the nations to Judaism, or as Jews(Judah)? Did he come to convert the nations into Israel because they are part of the lost tribes of Israel? I believe Messianic Israel theology (2 house) teaches this. Messianic Judaism, not so much.
 
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big macher

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Yes, it's not that big of a deal within modern Judaism who has adjusted their halachot to deal with living in the diaspora. A convert is a Jew. But did Yeshua come to convert the nations to Judaism, or as Jews(Judah)? Did he come to convert the nations into Israel because they are part of the lost tribes of Israel? I believe Messianic Israel theology (2 house) teaches this. Messianic Judaism, not so much.

I think you have to look at the big picture. The worlds redemption is centered around Israel's redemption. Without Israel's redemption there can't be world wide redemption for ALL human kind.

Paul saw this. I believe Paul was able to grasp 'the dawning of the age...' which included non Israel. This is verified what the prophets foretold. Paul answered the question when he asked unquote 'Is God the God of Israel only?'

I believe Yeshua's death and resurrection 'enacted' this 'dawning of the age' and Paul knowing the Torah it clicked. Israel's redemption means redemption for all human kind.

I think we need to look at the end result in all this, the Messianic Age. I also think it's important to note that the Messianic Age isn't eternal. So the Messianic Age isn't necessarily the end result but a result that the prophets foretold.
 
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Pentateuch and Yeshua

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You reject Paul? Are anti Paul posts even allowed on CF?
I don't believe there is any rule against stating that I don't follow Paul and will not answer questions that only make sense if you aspire to Pauline theology. I didn't write anything attempting to disprove Paul's position, besides making one post responding to someone who was wondering why some people believe that Paul was pro Torah and why others believe that he was anti Torah, and I explained how he fits both profiles and that that was probably his reason for making such statements about catching people with guile. I admittedly hadn't at that point read the post with the rules pertaining to the prohibition of posting anything that refutes Paul, but despite that I didn't refute Paul out of respect for the fact that this, being a Christian forum, most members probably do accept him, but I just made it clear that I don't and helped answer a question relating to Paul's position. I am sorry if you believe this to be an infraction of the rules, I don't believe that it is, but I am happy to be corrected if so.
 
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pinacled

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I don't believe there is any rule against stating that I don't follow Paul and will not answer questions that only make sense if you aspire to Pauline theology. I didn't write anything attempting to disprove Paul's position, besides making one post responding to someone who was wondering why some people believe that Paul was pro Torah and why others believe that he was anti Torah, and I explained how he fits both profiles and that that was probably his reason for making such statements about catching people with guile. I admittedly hadn't at that point read the post with the rules pertaining to the prohibition of posting anything that refutes Paul, but despite that I didn't refute Paul out of respect for the fact that this, being a Christian forum, most members probably do accept him, but I just made it clear that I don't and helped answer a question relating to Paul's position. I am sorry if you believe this to be an infraction of the rules, I don't believe that it is, but I am happy to be corrected if so.
Whew....Paul
 
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Shimshon

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I don't believe there is any rule against stating that I don't follow Paul
You are correct. They were magically erased from the New SOP here about a week ago. And look! Here you are, with a signature specifically tailored for the MJ forum, as a non member (non-denomination). Sushi anyone!
 
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