Evidence that homosexuality is a choice

BAFRIEND

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You know, pirate, I was just reading another post in another thread where you called someone a stereotyper because they said that they noticed that many homosexual men were feminine and that many homosexual women where masculine and that person surmised it was due to hormones in the mother's womb.

Now you turn around and state that homosexuals have no choice at all in the matter of their orientation. Well, we all do not have a choice in deciding what race we are do we ? I can look at an asian or a black person and know what race they are. Yet, according to you, you cannot tell what sexual orientation one is through physical traits because that would stereotyping.

Given that argument, by stating that homosexuality is not a choice, you are stereotyping homosexuals and that is a dangerous proposition as it leads to prejudice and racism.
 
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MrPirate

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You win hands down Mr. Pirate.

Homosexuality is not a choice for those too undisciplined to be able to master themselves, too weak in their faiths to be influenced by the Lord, too confused and in a fog to understand that by nature and divine plan that you are supposed to be attracted to the opposite sex.

So, I agree with you.

You win.
And the evidence that homosexuality IS a choice for the “undisciplined”

I have no idea what you meant by “undisciplined” but I suspect you meant “honest”


Because apparently as long as homosexuals are willing to lie about “change” then they are good Christians. Its only when they are honest and say ‘I am the way I am because God made me, there is no choice’ are labeled by you as something other than Christians.
 
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gwdboi

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You win hands down Mr. Pirate.

Homosexuality is not a choice for those too undisciplined to be able to master themselves, too weak in their faiths to be influenced by the Lord, too confused and in a fog to understand that by nature and divine plan that you are supposed to be attracted to the opposite sex.

So, I agree with you.

You win.

The blind are only blind because they are unwilling to see. The truth is there and has been for quite some time. Seth must be with you.
 
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lostinWA

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We are here to discuss evidence. Not your personal interpretation of the bible

If you have no evidence to show that homosexuality is a choice then simply say so.




As for the verse you cite. I am not surprised you have taken it out of context. I have yet to see anyone use that verse in context when trying to justify their own petty personal prejudices.

The lusts spoken of are the result of godlessness and the refusal of the gospel of God. The godless ones are described as being given over to their passions. This loss of control is key and important to the Greeks and Romans Paul is writing to, and was considered a very bad thing.

The relationships are referred to as being unnatural. the Greek words physin and paraphysin have been translated to mean natural and unnatural respectively. Contrary to popular belief, the word paraphysin does not mean "to go against the laws of nature", but rather engage in action(s) which is uncharacteristic for that person. An example of the word paraphysin is used in Romans 11:24, where God acts in an uncharacteristic (paraphysin) way to accept the Gentiles. Thus the passages correctly reads that it would be unnatural for heterosexuals to live as homosexuals, and for homosexuals to live as heterosexuals.



Now…back to providing evidence that homosexuality is a choice


That is fine but your wrong.

" For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: "


The word for nature is Phusis which means "the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature"

So yes they exchanged the natural ways for that which goes against nature. Which means the natural way is Heterosexual, and homosexuality is to go against nature.

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Scripture also calls the men with men an error and they recieved recompence for that. The God I worship does not chastise people unless they made a choice to sin.

Scripture is extremely clear on homosexuality being sin, which makes it very clear that homosexuality is a choice.
 
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*Starlight*

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That is fine but your wrong.

" For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: "


The word for nature is Phusis which means "the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature"

So yes they exchanged the natural ways for that which goes against nature. Which means the natural way is Heterosexual, and homosexuality is to go against nature.

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Scripture also calls the men with men an error and they recieved recompence for that. The God I worship does not chastise people unless they made a choice to sin.

Scripture is extremely clear on homosexuality being sin, which makes it very clear that homosexuality is a choice.
What you're saying is illogical. Just because there was some group of heterosexuals two thousand years ago, who for some reason (probably because of some pagan ritual, from what I've read) had homosexual sex, it doesn't mean that all homosexuality is a choice. There's just no such logical connection here.
 
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Pogue

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I know that I never chose to be heterosexual, and that however much I told myself otherwise, I could never be anything but heterosexual. I have no reason to assume that this does not also apply to homosexuals.
 
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MrPirate

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That is fine but your wrong.

" For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: "


The word for nature is Phusis which means "the nature of things, the force, laws, order of nature"

So yes they exchanged the natural ways for that which goes against nature. Which means the natural way is Heterosexual, and homosexuality is to go against nature.

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Scripture also calls the men with men an error and they recieved recompence for that. The God I worship does not chastise people unless they made a choice to sin.

Scripture is extremely clear on homosexuality being sin, which makes it very clear that homosexuality is a choice.


The only reason to force this interpretation into the verse is to justify personal prejudice.

This is nothing new. The various letters of Paul have historically

been taken out of context and twisted to punish and oppress every identifiable minority in the world: Jews, children, women, blacks, slaves, politicians, divorced people, convicts, religious reformers, and the mentally ill. Currently the popular target of this discrimination are homosexuals


your claim fails on several levels

The society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexuality be quite natural. What would have been considered unnatural for Paul’s audience would have been to force oneself to go against one’s own nature, to pretend to be something one is not.

In the original Greek, the phrase for “vile affliction” translates as ecstatic or ecstasy, the original meaning was not the modern one…the word did not mean passion or lust but rather referred to ecstatic trance states described by the anthropologist Mircea Eliade. These ecstatic trances were part of pretty much every religion, such states were generally achieved by religious leaders but lay people could engage in them as well, the process was to connect to the spirit world for healing and blessing. The Modern Christian version would be “speaking in tongues” and the meditative state achieved in ritualistic prayer. Originally the condemnation was against any religion but the one Paul was founding, but as noted the non Christian process he was condemning, like so many other non-Christian traditions, found their way into Christianity.

The real killer of your argument is the word “Natural” as noted it is not the “law of nature” but rather the nature of the self or to be very specific produced by nature. Since ones sexuality and sexual oriention are natural, what Pal is condemning is the unnaturalness of going against one’s nature. In the verse God punishes individuals engaging in ecstatic trance work by forcing them to be something they are not.

The sin here (aside form ecstasy trance work) is pretending to be something you are not.




None of which has anything to do with the topic.
Please present evidence that homosexuality is a choice
 
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kagol

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I truthfully cannot say that having the orientation of homosexuality is a choice.

However, I do think that some (not all) have had certain feelings that have made them believe that they must be homosexual and that that belief has then become a truth in them. So this could then be taken as 'choice', choosing to believe something that was not necessarily correct to begin with.

What I do have a problem with reconciling is;

I totally believe the action is a sin. No question for me.
But WHY would God create you with the orientation for something that is sinful? Surely having the orientation in your DNA is very different to being nurtured/conditioned incorrectly and therefore developing sinful mindsets.
I know we are all born with a sinful nature and therefore have a propensity to sin, but being created with a specific sin in your make-up?

I don't know. I will continue to wait on the Lord for further direction. Until then I will treat it as not a choice.

In love.
 
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