Every non-denominational church does the same thing.

[barisvesevgi]

I was baptized in one non-denominational church, moved and started to go to another non-denominational church. I didn’t feel happy with the second church, so I stopped going until I found the right one. I started going to a new church and I fell in love with it almost immediately. Even so, one thing I have always wondered is if all of these churches visit each other to see each one does their service, because they are almost identical in behavior and style. The music is the same style, the worship leaders seem like they are all related because the words they use are identical. They direct the audience to lift their hands when they say to, to pray when they say to, and it just seems so unnatural to me. The worship singers cry and drop to their knees. When the Pastor preaches, he starts off in a soft tone but always toward the end of his preaching he is almost screaming. Every church Pastor behaves the same. People in the audience are always saying "Amen." The Pastor often says "Can I get an Amen." For what, I am not always certain. Then there is the alter call. It is all part of the script and the music has to be the right one in order to draw people. I know if I heard a Christian rock song playing people wouldn’t go to the alter, but a soft hymn would probably instill some thoughts in their heads telling convincing them that they need to go up. I mean sad songs make us cry. Does that mean we need to go up to the alter? I have experienced being filled with an over powering warmth and desire to give my heart to the Lord but I wonder if others who go up to the alter have experienced the same. Please do not misinterpret my post. I am not being stirred away from my love of our Father. I just always had this curiosity in the back of my head and laugh sometimes when I watch the church routine over and over again. It seems like the whole hour in church is a performance and I don’t always feel it is real. Sometimes I feel the desire to detach myself from their commands and do what I feel I should do. I pray quietly when others are singing and dancing. I sing, when others are praying. You see I do the same thing but not when commanded. I do it when my heart is stirred to do what I do. I want my time with the Lord to be unplanned and natural. I love hearing about the word and learning from the Pastor but sometimes I understand why non-believers mock the Christian churches. They do seem a little pretentious. Am I missing something or is this something I have to get over. I’d love some positive and informative answers please. I take this as a learning opportunity for me.

 

[food4thought]

It sounds to me like the churches you have experienced have all bought into the "seeker friendly" system, which tends to promote the types of things you have experienced. This is not all bad, as it is geared towards reaching the lost and seeking for Jesus; but, as you seem to have experienced, it is not so much geared towards helping those that come to Christ grow in their faith.

You have a choice... you can stay in the church style that brought you to Jesus, and get on board with seeking out people who are not Christians and inviting them to the church service so God can work in their hearts as He did in yours, and seek to feed your own spiritual growth through small group studies through that church or another (if your current church doesn't offer any that inspire you). Or, you can seek out a church that teaches the Bible verse by verse, book by book, on Sundays (this is what Calvary Chapel does). This will allow you to be spiritually fed every Sunday, and these types of churches usually also have small group studies to engage in with people that are more Biblically knowledgeable than seeker friendly churches tend to have. You will have the opportunity to learn how to engage people with the gospel yourself, which is both more challenging and more rewarding, IMO.


Know this, though, every church will tend to have routines that are followed most Sundays, and this is not necessarily a bad thing.

Hope this helps;
Mike

 

[JackRT]

The non-denominational churches now constitute another denomination.

 

[barisvesevgi]

It sounds to me like the churches you have experienced have all bought into the "seeker friendly" system, which tends to promote the types of things you have experienced. This is not all bad, as it is geared towards reaching the lost and seeking for Jesus; but, as you seem to have experienced, it is not so much geared towards helping those that come to Christ grow in their faith.

You have a choice... you can stay in the church style that brought you to Jesus, and get on board with seeking out people who are not Christians and inviting them to the church service so God can work in their hearts as He did in yours, and seek to feed your own spiritual growth through small group studies through that church or another (if your current church doesn't offer any that inspire you). Or, you can seek out a church that teaches the Bible verse by verse, book by book, on Sundays (this is what Calvary Chapel does). This will allow you to be spiritually fed every Sunday, and these types of churches usually also have small group studies to engage in with people that are more Biblically knowledgeable than seeker friendly churches tend to have. You will have the opportunity to learn how to engage people with the gospel yourself, which is both more challenging and more rewarding, IMO.


Know this, though, every church will tend to have routines that are followed most Sundays, and this is not necessarily a bad thing.

Hope this helps;
Mike

Thank you Mike.

Yes, my church is all about making disciples, bringing people to Jesus, etc. We have life groups (bi-weekly small groups) and then there is a worship gathering at the church (bi-weekly). I don't live close to my church so miss out on the groups and gatherings, but have requested a mentor to help me grow spiritually and to help me become more like Jesus in my day to day life. The church is just a thing I do, which I love, but something is definitely missing and I don't know what it is quite yet. My four year old goes with me to church and so changing churches is not something I want to do. Maybe because I am still developing as a Christian, I am noticing these little things that I have yet to understand. I love routine, but at church, I don't like it so much, but I can adapt what works for me without being noticed. I'm there for the same reason everyone else is, and that is what really matters. I like the idea of the Calvary Chapel, so I am going to check into that too. I always have questions when I read the bible but no one is there to answer them for me. I rely solely on commentaries or research. Thanks again.

 

[barisvesevgi]

Thank you Mike.

Yes, my church is all about making disciples, bringing people to Jesus, etc. We have life groups (bi-weekly small groups) and then there is a worship gathering at the church (bi-weekly). I don't live close to my church so miss out on the groups and gatherings, but have requested a mentor to help me grow spiritually and to help me become more like Jesus in my day to day life. The church is just a thing I do, which I love, but something is definitely missing and I don't know what it is quite yet. My four year old goes with me to church and so changing churches is not something I want to do. Maybe because I am still developing as a Christian, I am noticing these little things that I have yet to understand. I love routine, but at church, I don't like it so much, but I can adapt what works for me without being noticed. I'm there for the same reason everyone else is, and that is what really matters. I like the idea of the Calvary Chapel, so I am going to check into that too. I always have questions when I read the bible but no one is there to answer them for me. I rely solely on commentaries or research. Thanks again.

p.s. can I keep going to my church and do bible studies with another church, calvary, etc.?

 

[graceandpeace]

I was baptized in one non-denominational church, moved and started to go to another non-denominational church. I didn’t feel happy with the second church, so I stopped going until I found the right one. I started going to a new church and I fell in love with it almost immediately. Even so, one thing I have always wondered is if all of these churches visit each other to see each one does their service, because they are almost identical in behavior and style. The music is the same style, the worship leaders seem like they are all related because the words they use are identical. They direct the audience to lift their hands when they say to, to pray when they say to, and it just seems so unnatural to me. The worship singers cry and drop to their knees. When the Pastor preaches, he starts off in a soft tone but always toward the end of his preaching he is almost screaming. Every church Pastor behaves the same. People in the audience are always saying "Amen." The Pastor often says "Can I get an Amen." For what, I am not always certain. Then there is the alter call. It is all part of the script and the music has to be the right one in order to draw people. I know if I heard a Christian rock song playing people wouldn’t go to the alter, but a soft hymn would probably instill some thoughts in their heads telling convincing them that they need to go up. I mean sad songs make us cry. Does that mean we need to go up to the alter? I have experienced being filled with an over powering warmth and desire to give my heart to the Lord but I wonder if others who go up to the alter have experienced the same. Please do not misinterpret my post. I am not being stirred away from my love of our Father. I just always had this curiosity in the back of my head and laugh sometimes when I watch the church routine over and over again. It seems like the whole hour in church is a performance and I don’t always feel it is real. Sometimes I feel the desire to detach myself from their commands and do what I feel I should do. I pray quietly when others are singing and dancing. I sing, when others are praying. You see I do the same thing but not when commanded. I do it when my heart is stirred to do what I do. I want my time with the Lord to be unplanned and natural. I love hearing about the word and learning from the Pastor but sometimes I understand why non-believers mock the Christian churches. They do seem a little pretentious. Am I missing something or is this something I have to get over. I’d love some positive and informative answers please. I take this as a learning opportunity for me.

I understand.

Non-denominational is a misnomer. Typically churches calling themselves non-denominational are Baptist or charismatic oriented in their theology & practice.

The style of church service you described turns me off. I have experienced this sort of service in person many times, & I agree that it doesn't inspire much faith or otherwise is easily mocked. I'm sure there are many good Christians who attend churches that match your description, but frankly I think such services are manipulative & again leave much to be desired in terms of inspiring faith.

Actually, encountering these sort of services, along with a wide array of other issues & questions I started wrestling with, lead me to seek out a different church tradition. After some research & visiting different churches, I knew a church with liturgy & a more traditional praxis is what I needed. To make a long story short, I found my home in the Episcopal Church & I am at peace. Perhaps a church with liturgy would be the right path for you, too.

Let me know if I can be of more help.

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

I was baptized in one non-denominational church, moved and started to go to another non-denominational church. I didn’t feel happy with the second church, so I stopped going until I found the right one. I started going to a new church and I fell in love with it almost immediately. Even so, one thing I have always wondered is if all of these churches visit each other to see each one does their service, because they are almost identical in behavior and style. The music is the same style, the worship leaders seem like they are all related because the words they use are identical. They direct the audience to lift their hands when they say to, to pray when they say to, and it just seems so unnatural to me. The worship singers cry and drop to their knees. When the Pastor preaches, he starts off in a soft tone but always toward the end of his preaching he is almost screaming. Every church Pastor behaves the same. People in the audience are always saying "Amen." The Pastor often says "Can I get an Amen." For what, I am not always certain. Then there is the alter call. It is all part of the script and the music has to be the right one in order to draw people. I know if I heard a Christian rock song playing people wouldn’t go to the alter, but a soft hymn would probably instill some thoughts in their heads telling convincing them that they need to go up. I mean sad songs make us cry. Does that mean we need to go up to the alter? I have experienced being filled with an over powering warmth and desire to give my heart to the Lord but I wonder if others who go up to the alter have experienced the same. Please do not misinterpret my post. I am not being stirred away from my love of our Father. I just always had this curiosity in the back of my head and laugh sometimes when I watch the church routine over and over again. It seems like the whole hour in church is a performance and I don’t always feel it is real. Sometimes I feel the desire to detach myself from their commands and do what I feel I should do. I pray quietly when others are singing and dancing. I sing, when others are praying. You see I do the same thing but not when commanded. I do it when my heart is stirred to do what I do. I want my time with the Lord to be unplanned and natural. I love hearing about the word and learning from the Pastor but sometimes I understand why non-believers mock the Christian churches. They do seem a little pretentious. Am I missing something or is this something I have to get over. I’d love some positive and informative answers please. I take this as a learning opportunity for me.

Any man who has not fulfilled John 6:40 is not a witness for Christ:



Proverbs 29:18King James Version (KJV)
18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

As it is written:

John 14:21King James Version (KJV)
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


As it is written:

1 John 3:5King James Version (KJV)
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


John 3:11King James Version (KJV)
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

1 Corinthians 2:2King James Version (KJV)
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

 

[paul1149]

"The rut", or "just going through the motions", is something we all need to guard against. I once revisited the first church I had gone to, which is charismatic, and it seemed to be a show. Things like falling out in the spirit whenever anyone was prayed for seemed like just another kind of liturgy to me, in that my impression was that people were doing what they thought they were expected to do. If I had participated it would have been for the wrong reasons.

The question is what to do when in a situation like this - stay or go? If you sense that there is something you need to learn from where you are, despite the obstacles and difficulties, then you should stay the course and see what Holy Spirit has for you. But if after prayerful consideration you feel there is no life or deepening of faith there for you, you probably should begin to look elsewhere. And there certainly is nothing wrong with attending functions of other churches while you still remain at this church, unless some particular conflict were to arise. We are all members of the Body of Christ, and it is universal.

For better or worse, I didn't return to my first church, as I thought my observations and attitude would not fit in at all and probably would upset the faith of those who were young in the Lord, of which there were many.

 

[talitha]

barisvesevgi, I have gone through this a lot as a missionary, this process of feeling "other" than what goes on in church, both here and 'back in the States" - I think it's a good thing - what's false and just a facade is being rooted out of us, while we excavate what is authentic in our walk with Christ and in our relationships with other believers, not to mention the world......

 

[barisvesevgi]

I understand.

Non-denominational is a misnomer. Typically churches calling themselves non-denominational are Baptist or charismatic oriented in their theology & practice.

The style of church service you described turns me off. I have experienced this sort of service in person many times, & I agree that it doesn't inspire much faith or otherwise is easily mocked. I'm sure there are many good Christians who attend churches that match your description, but frankly I think such services are manipulative & again leave much to be desired in terms of inspiring faith.

Actually, encountering these sort of services, along with a wide array of other issues & questions I started wrestling with, lead me to seek out a different church tradition. After some research & visiting different churches, I knew a church with liturgy & a more traditional praxis is what I needed. To make a long story short, I found my home in the Episcopal Church & I am at peace. Perhaps a church with liturgy would be the right path for you, too.

Let me know if I can be of more help.

Thank you for your awesome response. I'm learning a lot from these types of responses. Gives me something to think about. I was drawn to this church for a reason and I pray the He will reveal that to me someday so I can know if I was meant to stay there.

 

[barisvesevgi]

"The rut", or "just going through the motions", is something we all need to guard against. I once revisited the first church I had gone to, which is charismatic, and it seemed to be a show. Things like falling out in the spirit whenever anyone was prayed for seemed like just another kind of liturgy to me, in that my impression was that people were doing what they thought they were expected to do. If I had participated it would have been for the wrong reasons.

The question is what to do when in a situation like this - stay or go? If you sense that there is something you need to learn from where you are, despite the obstacles and difficulties, then you should stay the course and see what Holy Spirit has for you. But if after prayerful consideration you feel there is no life or deepening of faith there for you, you probably should begin to look elsewhere. And there certainly is nothing wrong with attending functions of other churches while you still remain at this church, unless some particular conflict were to arise. We are all members of the Body of Christ, and it is universal.

For better or worse, I didn't return to my first church, as I thought my observations and attitude would not fit in at all and probably would upset the faith of those who were young in the Lord, of which there were many.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree about sticking it out because I didn't come to this church by accident. It was through a divine appointment so I'm committed. I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing because it also affects my 4 year old. What they do with adults they do with children. I hope God reveals what I'm to do at my church. I won't do anything without Him telling me to. You rock with your response. thanks again.

 

[food4thought]

p.s. can I keep going to my church and do bible studies with another church, calvary, etc.?

I am sure you wouldn't have a problem joining a small group study at another church, as I have done this a few times and not had any problems. I am glad your church is so into discipleship, as some are not.

 

[graceandpeace]

Thank you for your awesome response. I'm learning a lot from these types of responses. Gives me something to think about. I was drawn to this church for a reason and I pray the He will reveal that to me someday so I can know if I was meant to stay there.

No problem.

Personally, I don't think feelings are the best way to decide on a church; rather, I think the best thing to do is honestly learn about the local denominations available, & to consider their faith & practice in light of the broader Christian community, history, tradition, etc. Then, once the options are narrowed or decided upon, take the time to visit at least a couple of times in a row, or to inquire with any questions to the priest/pastor - or to otherwise find out what the church is about. Feelings can be a help here & of course prayer, but I do think arming one's self with information is a better starting point.

You mentioned to another poster some concern about how the church is affecting your child. If you're concerned about a possible negative effect, then I would think that should make your decision easier.

I have small children, too, & they look forward to weekly communion & being at church. The older of the two often joins in prayer or will bring a stuffed animal to the altar to so they can share communion. Even though they are young & may not "understand" the whole liturgy, they are learning by doing. Kids can appreciate the sacred if they are given the opportunity.

Anyway, good luck as you figure out your path.

 

[ewq1938]

It is all part of the script and the music has to be the right one in order to draw people. I know if I heard a Christian rock song playing people wouldn’t go to the alter, but a soft hymn would probably instill some thoughts in their heads telling convincing them that they need to go up. I mean sad songs make us cry. Does that mean we need to go up to the alter? I have experienced being filled with an over powering warmth and desire to give my heart to the Lord but I wonder if others who go up to the alter have experienced the same. Please do not misinterpret my post. I am not being stirred away from my love of our Father. I just always had this curiosity in the back of my head and laugh sometimes when I watch the church routine over and over again. It seems like the whole hour in church is a performance and I don’t always feel it is real.

You discerned it properly. Many churches play "church". Find one that doesn't, which is hard, or find what I like better which are bible study groups...learn what can be learned from scripture and if you need a building to go to on Sundays, try to find a good one.

 

[com7fy8]

Well, Baris Vesevgi, God has His special plan and desires for you with Him. I don't know what the details are, for you; so we pray.

I think it could be good for you to find someone who is obviously helping you to grow in Jesus and how God has us relating with people in love. If you "ask" for such a person, you might not be sure who will be assigned to you; so it might be good to just pray and trust God to have you discover whoever you belong with. But if you find a leader who is for real, that person might be reliable to help you find the right person. But if the leaders seem more like performers, they themselves might not be mature enough to be able to tell the difference between a true example person and someone just "trained". So, trust God, I would say, and I think it could be good to find not only one good mentor person, but a group with a number of mature people who help you to get real with God, get correction, and grow in how to love.

But in all this you need, I would say, to grow in being able to love and help the people who are performers and "seeker friendly" but not mature Christians. I have an issue with a church being only able to "bring people to Christ", but they are not spiritually healthy enough to bring up children of God to be mature in Jesus.

I understand that our Heavenly Father wants us to become gentle and humble and quiet (1 Peter 3:4, Ephesians 4:2), and all-loving (Matthew 5:46); so I do not think God wants people to get the impression that God is going to entertain them and cater to their cultural preferences > how, ever, will they learn, by the way, how to love any and all people, if they can handle only being in a certain religious cultural setting????? Paul learned to reach to and relate with people in various cultures, I get from 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.

New converts to Jesus need to know people who show them example of where they need to grow and go. So, if a group is only entertaining in order to bring people to Jesus, I am not going to assume they are ministering true conversions, though God is not limited about who and what He can use. But people need to know they will be expected to appreciate being humble and gentle and quiet and all-loving; so giving them a dynamic and dramatic show "might" not demonstrate God's will to them, for how to be a Christian; it "might" give them the impression that they should always be expecting a lot of excitement and feel-goodism, and it could feed their fleshly desire only to be excited into just a different lifestyle.

1 Timothy 2:1-4 to me shows that we need to love any and all people, in prayer with hope for any and all people, and this is so "we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence." So, I find the Bible says this is a basic of Christianity, but on Sunday my church does not move right into prayer and quietness and peace of seeking God for His good for any and all people; there is serving and social sharing, then worship with a sermon which I think is well prepared and can be good for any Christian to grow on.

And I do not find prayer to be the first and main thing going on in various other churches, also. But there is indeed a planned "worship service" and can be a well-prepared sermon which can feed people something good. But possibly some number of us humans just are too busy and tied up with busy things so we are not about quieting down and being still with God and submitting to how He has us praying. And this could be "why" we do not do this in church.

And so, semi-workaholic and less mature ministers "might" not preach and minister this. And are we ready to not get bored if we meet and share with mature humble gentle quiet senior Christians? Actually, in the quietness of God's love we have Heaven's own goodness shared with us And in the goodness of His quiet rest (Matthew 11:28-30, Psalm 37:7), we also have His almighty safety against how Satanic emotions and feelings would mess us with bitterness, self-righteous criticizing, unforgiveness, frustration, dominating and dictatorial drives for pleasures, arguing, and complaining and other nasty naughty negative nonsense. In God's love we have peace which is safe.

So, this should give us some "homework" to do

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the churches came down in ages spawning seven general churches...

Ephesus - Apostolic - Paul writes as having all Asia forsaking him
Smyrna - Early Orthodox - Martyr - Foxes has the Roman persecutions as ten.
Pergamos - Orthodox... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Materialistic - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

As we live in Laodicean times so we have the Charismatic / Faith churches of today. The six earlier churches still have their structure, but have been affected by the times and the seasons. I believe that the spirit of Jezebel has long left the Catholic church for greener pastures such as Islam and some Buddhist lands.

Ephesus - I believe that this church age most probably died with the Apostles
Smyrna - I believe this mostly encompasses the Oriental Orthodox churches
Pergamos - Greek, Eastern, and Russian Orthodox churches. Benefits include your traditional service.
Thyatira - Catholic church - Benefits include your traditional service and a structured ecclesiastical order.
Sardis - Protestant church - As a Sardius is a gem so the churches are normally clean, orderly and decent. As a Sardius is a gem so they are normally pretty settled in their doctrinal thinking. You can expect the worship to be very traditional.
Philadelphia - Brotherly Love - To acquire sanctification is to get it with a sweet and a loving spirit. This is a great church if you can find one in revival. More of your traditional music service. There has been a southern gospel variety of 'valley music' that makes one very sad that sprang up out of this age. The McKameys for example, singing songs about how low in the valley they are. I use to like the Singing Cookes but some of those valley songs could really take you low. I in particular do not like valley music.
Laodicea - Offers a contemporary service with emphasis on faith. Some of our biggest churches are Word of Faith type churches. More of your upbeat Christian Contemporary music. Sometimes they can get to hard on the rock and roll. I like music that lifts one up, as long as the lights and energy of the Holy Spirit come shining through I don't mind it too bad.

So... Its your call... However you want to discern it.