Evangeliclcals who affirm Purgatory.

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

I saw statement by Evangelicals who affirm a form of Purgatory. Here is a nutshell synopsis:

1. Heaven is a place of total perfection and that means humans must be perfected to enter into heaven.
2. The vast majority of people are far from perfection at death. Even the most devout of Christians is far from perfect.
3. Those who enter must be (a) perfect, (b) instantly perfected by God at the point of death, or (c) be sanctified after death.
#a is rare; #b is most of the Protestants and #c is not incompatible with Catholic, Orthodox and a small number of Protestants.
Thus, every theology must have some kind of purgatory theory: either instantaneous or through a process.

(Note: The Catholic teaching does not require that Purgatory take time per se).

This is a new and interesting development among dispensationalist Evangelicals.

 

[Danoh]

I saw statement by Evangelicals who affirm a form of Purgatory. Here is a nutshell synopsis:

1. Heaven is a place of total perfection and that means humans must be perfected to enter into heaven.
2. The vast majority of people are far from perfection at death. Even the most devout of Christians is far from perfect.
3. Those who enter must be (a) perfect, (b) instantly perfected by God at the point of death, or (c) be sanctified after death.
#a is rare; #b is most of the Protestants and #c is not incompatible with Catholic, Orthodox and a small number of Protestants.
Thus, every theology must have some kind of purgatory theory: either instantaneous or through a process.

(Note: The Catholic teaching does not require that Purgatory take time per se).

This is a new and interesting development among dispensationalist Evangelicals.

You'd be surprised how many who assert they are Dispensational in their understanding are not.

Some have even gone the route of the other extreme of that - the heretical route of Universal Reconciliation that other schools of "thought" hold to.

 

[glen55]

I saw statement by Evangelicals who affirm a form of Purgatory. Here is a nutshell synopsis:

1. Heaven is a place of total perfection and that means humans must be perfected to enter into heaven.
2. The vast majority of people are far from perfection at death. Even the most devout of Christians is far from perfect.
3. Those who enter must be (a) perfect, (b) instantly perfected by God at the point of death, or (c) be sanctified after death.
#a is rare; #b is most of the Protestants and #c is not incompatible with Catholic, Orthodox and a small number of Protestants.
Thus, every theology must have some kind of purgatory theory: either instantaneous or through a process.

(Note: The Catholic teaching does not require that Purgatory take time per se).

This is a new and interesting development among dispensationalist Evangelicals.

Alvin Boyd Kuhns writings are relevant on Esoteric vs Literal interpretation of scripture, and also shows that around the third century is when the historic version resurrected and was fed to the illiterate, The writers of the period shows the facts are there to expose much of the historic account that has certainly left a trail of fraud and mind control.

After comparing the conversions accounts in Act's compared to Galatians was enough to show that someone needed Paul to teach the Romanized version so Acts was brought in to pervert Paul's inward experience of the Christ Galatians 4:26 since time began, which was a Gnostic teaching of many Esoteric and Sages that hide them in allegory and Symbols Galatians 4:24. I am no longer a dogmatized dipsy.

The die hard's will scoff like I use to but there is a more excellent way that teaches the spirit is all things to all people and isn't imprisoned in a book or culture.

 

[Biblewriter]

Anyone who believes in Purgatory is, by definition, NOT an Evangelical.

And dispensationalism NEVER contained any idea even remotely connected with Purgatory.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The New Testament affirms that the Lord Jesus "by Himself purged our sins"; the Lord Jesus on the Cross affirmed "It is finished". Hebrews affirms again and again that the Lord was once offered.

Therefore, whatever people may call themselves, if they say the Lord Jesus' death at the Cross was somehow not sufficient to reconcile the believing sinner to God, they are not being Biblical.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

The New Testament affirms that the Lord Jesus "by Himself purged our sins"; the Lord Jesus on the Cross affirmed "It is finished". Hebrews affirms again and again that the Lord was once offered.

Therefore, whatever people may call themselves, if they say the Lord Jesus' death at the Cross was somehow not sufficient to reconcile the believing sinner to God, they are not being Biblical.

It is Christ's Passion, Death and Resurrection that brings about the purification.

 

[Biblewriter]

The New Testament affirms that the Lord Jesus "by Himself purged our sins"; the Lord Jesus on the Cross affirmed "It is finished". Hebrews affirms again and again that the Lord was once offered.

Therefore, whatever people may call themselves, if they say the Lord Jesus' death at the Cross was somehow not sufficient to reconcile the believing sinner to God, they are not being Biblical.

Amen!

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

Therefore, whatever people may call themselves, if they say the Lord Jesus' death at the Cross was somehow not sufficient to reconcile the believing sinner to God, they are not being Biblical.

It is Christ's Passion, Death and Resurrection that brings about the purification.

 

[Biblewriter]

It is Christ's Passion, Death and Resurrection that brings about the purification.

His passion and death bring about the purification. His resurrection is the proof that it was accepted.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

It is Christ's Passion, Death and Resurrection that brings about the purification.

His passion and death bring about the purification.

Yup, that's right.

 

[Light of the East]

The New Testament affirms that the Lord Jesus "by Himself purged our sins"; the Lord Jesus on the Cross affirmed "It is finished". Hebrews affirms again and again that the Lord was once offered.

Therefore, whatever people may call themselves, if they say the Lord Jesus' death at the Cross was somehow not sufficient to reconcile the believing sinner to God, they are not being Biblical.

Once offered, but not once applied. When you sin, you need to offer the Sacrifice which God ordained to forgive your sin. Every time.

And if you don't do that and die with sin on your soul, you will have to undergo a final cleansing. Purgation.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Once offered, but not once applied. When you sin, you need to offer the Sacrifice which God ordained to forgive your sin. Every time.

And if you don't do that and die with sin on your soul, you will have to undergo a final cleansing. Purgation.

You don't get that thought from the Bible. The Bible says in 1 John 1.7: 'If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses (present continuous) from all sin'.

 

[Panevino]

Probably a fair bit of misunderstanding about purgatory here. It's not a process/work for forgiveness of sin after death (it's too late for that) it's about a burning away of any imperfections/tendencies to sin through the encounter with God, 1cor3:15 it's not at all a suggestion that the cross was not enough it's more like through it

 

[Albion]

Probably a fair bit of misunderstanding about purgatory here. It's not a process/work for forgiveness of sin after death (it's too late for that) it's about a burning away of any imperfections/tendencies to sin through the encounter with God, 1cor3:15 it's not at all a suggestion that the cross was not enough it's more like through it

The first point there would be correct (so long as we understand that "burning away of imperfections" means the same kind of "burning" as those in Hell experience, although to a different end).

The second point, however, is not correctly stated. If Purgatory is needed because the person--already assured of salvation--"needs" to pay, i.e. be punished, for some of his sins...it indeed can reasonably enough be argued that this amounts to saying that the sacrifice of the Cross did NOT suffice to forgive all his sins.

 

[Panevino]

I hear you but no, it like the encounters in the bible where in the partial presence of God and even just Angels people fall on their face. A deep awareness of their place , reverent fear of the Lord that's transformative. That's like what Catholic understanding of purgatory is. A full awareness in the face of God that it's God. That's the burning of "the day" in 1cor3:13-15
Isa6:1-8 is an interesting read too.

 

[Albion]

I hear you but no, it like the encounters in the bible where in the partial presence of God and even just Angels people fall on their face. A deep awareness of their place , reverent fear of the Lord that's transformative. That's like what Catholic understanding of purgatory is. .

Well, no, it's not. And there are no places in the Bible in which Purgatory is described.

There are many saints and theologians who have described their own ideas and visions about Purgatory, but these are not the official church teaching on the matter. Purgatory is punitive...and it's a place of punishment for sin...so the idea that the Cross couldn't have forgiven all the person's sins if this is true is entirely reasonable to say.

 

[Panevino]

Read" spe salvi " by the previous pope if you want to(it's short)
What do you interpret 1cor3:13-15 relates to, in the context of "the day shall declare it"
Consequences can remain after sin is forgiven. These consequences do not negate that the sin was forgiven. A kind of justice or purging even punitive is not a negation of effectiveness of the cross / forgiveness but a required part of the transformation through the cross. I'm rambling a bit sorry
The fire in 1cor3 is not a pleasant thing it's part of that true transformation(a burning of the heart)

2 Samuel 12:13-15
And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

 

[Albion]

Read" spe salvi " by the previous pope if you want to(it's short)

As I said, there are lots of individuals who have speculated about Purgatory.

What do you interpret 1cor3:13-15 relates to

Our works are likely to be seen by God as mere exercises in vanity. And, BTW, the "fire" there cannot be a reference to Purgatory since it describes the works as that which the fire burns up.

 

[Panevino]

Not sure how that point excludes it.
Its refining the person through that process like the images below
Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver;
I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name, and I will hear them:
I will say, It is my people:
and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[Albion]

Not sure how that point excludes it.
Its refining the person through that process like the images below
Isaiah 48:10
Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver;
I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name, and I will hear them:
I will say, It is my people:
and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Well, it seems that what you're doing is speculating on scattered verses from all over Scripture, but these plainly do not refer to Purgatory.

As I noted before, if the building is burned (1 Cor 3) then it can't be the person instead.

And here ^ in Isaiah we have a "proof text" that isn't proof of Purgatory. Note that it's referring to those who are alive in the flesh, not those who have passed on--so it can't refer to Purgatory.