Ethical investing

[Goodbook]

In proverbs 31 a woman buys a field..
Lydia was a seller of purple
Dorcas made coats.

Maybe I should invest in homes and clothing? Or land, but, managed funds are companies..so, just wondered what companies would be christian, or have christian values I know the Warehouse group is. Thats a big box retailer.
Fonterra is a dairy company.
Fletchers is a building company.

I wouldn't want to give Disney any money. I just am in horror of the amount of merchandising junk they generate.

 

[createdtoworship]

Kiwisaver is a long term investment. Its for retirement or to buy your own home.

So you can choose cash, balanced or growth funds.

If choosing growth funds, since Im along way off from retirement or buying my own home, its not going to be a short term investment. So what companies would be ethical to invest in? Or should I just leave it as cash sitting in a bank.

Everyone is confusing me now. Koinoia say they dont charge any fees, the only thing is ROI gets taxed. It seems to me the only christian one Ive found.

Grosevenor has social responsible growth funds, but they also have ones that arent. I dont know if having an ethical option is just a greenwash when they could just be ethical only. They say they have low fees, but they still have fees.
However they are rated the best kiwisaver by peoples choice.

most if not all mutual funds, will evolve.

they will allocate say for example 70 percent in safe investments and 30 percent in higher risk stock, small cap or whatever their growth fund is.

when you start a mutual fund, say with 30 years left. You buyinto a fund called 2045 or whatever. Thats your maturity date, or when you retire.

now this fund today, is higher volitility. And higher risk. It's price movements based on stock will fluctuate more. But later as your allocation moves from stocks, to bonds for example. The price movements will be less volitile, less performing, and also more stable.

you don't want to lose what you gained.

so if, right now....a mutual fund is higher risk....

then why not manage your own?

you get all the same IRA tax incentives if you manage your own and adjust your own funds.

(no commissions that way)

 

[createdtoworship]

Mat 25:16-> Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents.
Mat 25:21-> His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'
Mat 10:16-> "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

I read this verse today:

"People curse the man who holds his grain for higher prices, but they bless the man who sells it to them in their time of need."

Just for example, in asia there harvest failed because of to much tsunami weather or something....don't know much about it but upwards of 30% of crop failed to be edible.

but their, corn, wheat and soy will all suffer.

so for example an ETF called CORN would not be a bad deal (it was up 3% today)(I am not giving any advice, this is an example not necessarily a stock recommendation)

in essence you are investing in the corn assets that asia will soon need.

but you have to manage your own assets to trade ETF's for the most part. Option house, robin hood, tdameritrade, etrade....

all good brokers that have lower fees.

robin hood is free trades
option house is a 5 dollar trade

I believe both tdameritrade and etrade are 10$ trades.

you pay commissions, but 10$ fee on a hundred thousand dollars is much cheaper than a mutual fund which charges 1-2% or 1000,-2000$ every year on fees. Plus quarterly fees as well totaling up to a hundred dollars annually.

fund managers need to make a living too.

but it's all stuff you can do yourself.

 

[Goodbook]

Well i will see what the rest of this course teaches but at this stage I cant invest myself as i dont have the capital to do it, most of it is in kiwisaver which I have to sort first, and choosing a mutual fund is better than just leaving it in cash.

Yes it would be better to DIY but at this stage I cant I even asked the bank and they couldnt give me any decent info on how you go about it.

I have not heard that verse can you give me the bible reference please.
I repeat that its kiwisaver so I cannot go looking at 2045 but i will ask koinoia if they have a thing where they have expiriy date for funds in which you have a say over what your moneys invested in. Im sure they must i dont think people feel good about having someone completely take over and play around with their savings for 30 years.

 

[dysert]

Im sure they must i dont think people feel good about having someone completely take over and play around with their savings for 30 years.

I think you'd be surprised at how many people do just that.

 

[createdtoworship]

Well i will see what the rest of this course teaches but at this stage I cant invest myself as i dont have the capital to do it, most of it is in kiwisaver which I have to sort first, and choosing a mutual fund is better than just leaving it in cash.

Yes it would be better to DIY but at this stage I cant I even asked the bank and they couldnt give me any decent info on how you go about it.

I have not heard that verse can you give me the bible reference please.
I repeat that its kiwisaver so I cannot go looking at 2045 but i will ask koinoia if they have a thing where they have expiriy date for funds in which you have a say over what your moneys invested in. Im sure they must i dont think people feel good about having someone completely take over and play around with their savings for 30 years.

I messaged you about this, but all you need for example is 20 dollars a week to retire in 5 years. Possibly 4 years.

I have a separate trading account, that is expendible. That is if the market crashes over night, I lose yes, but I don't lose rent money, or car money etc. I started with I think 260 bucks in an account, adding only 15 dollars a week. I am about 6 weeks into it (obviosly taking years to get the point of consistent growth). But it's easy and I can teach my method to anyone. (message me for more info)..

but I will put my financial goal up here so you can see how the power of compounding makes your chump change into your retirment account in only 5 years.

if you only learn one thing from everything I mention, realize this...watch the 3 minute video on compounding, and see it in action on a cell chart which I attached to this post. Again, no financial advice, as I don't provide any tips, merely the power of saving in general and being wise with money, which is biblical.

 

[createdtoworship]

In proverbs 31 a woman buys a field..
Lydia was a seller of purple
Dorcas made coats.

Maybe I should invest in homes and clothing? Or land, but, managed funds are companies..so, just wondered what companies would be christian, or have christian values I know the Warehouse group is. Thats a big box retailer.
Fonterra is a dairy company.
Fletchers is a building company.

I wouldn't want to give Disney any money. I just am in horror of the amount of merchandising junk they generate.

I love all your verses you speak of, the Bible talks a lot of money yes.

but I found out while studying proverbs over a matter of months, is that it's not the money that God necessarily wants you to have it's the wisdom..

wisdom is personified in the scriptures. For example in the first few proverbs it says for a young man to look straight to avoid the harlot of the streets, yet later it mentions wisdom as if she is a woman, and to fall in love with wisdom instead.

which is a smart idea for young men these days.

but I love proverbs, they are so down to earth.

I have been listening to them on audio going to work, I have listened to the book probably three times in last two weeks.

my notebook was full of notes, probably 20-30 pages.

which I will probably transfer some of them now.

Proverbs 16:16(KJV)
16 How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!

At first it's easy to think, I can be rich investing.

and yes that's an goal we have.

but how much more powerful is that fact that What God wants, is not silver in our pocket, but the wisdom of how to gain it!, and how to teach it to others!

see what is the point of 10 talents of silver, when we can teach it to others?

ten people gaining ten talents each is over a hundred talents, and so much more than just one guys riches.

I can see why God emphases the hard path, not the easy road.

The proverbs say that "wealth gotten by vanity will be gone"

or something like that...

and what that means is that it's not the get rich quick idea that God wan'ts for us. It's actually the learning that he wants us to have. The learning of a craft, the learning of a trade, the schooling, etc.

thats what he wants.

I did the schooling, yes. But i did it to make money. God says to do it to gain wisdom. And that THAT wisdom will be what makes us the money, not the paper degree.

so for instance with stock trading. This too, it's not the get rich quick idea.

but it's a trade craft you can literally teach people to do, and teach people that don't have jobs, or are uneducated, how to earn a living.

(I do not have a business degree, but one in technical services)
so I am not a professional trader, but I know some stuff....also my brother in law and uncle are brokers on the pacific stock exchange....I learned some stuff from them, but mostly from trial and error (a few years of 99% losses). They were non christian and they lived like heathens, but I didn't really want their wealth, just wanted to pick their brains on tips. I like knowing how to do it. (I have still to meet with them, I look at myself as being in the novice stage). When I know a little more, I will pick their brains. possibly. Maybe just learn it myself. Don't know.

but most importantly I learned, don't trade large amounts of money at first, definately less than 500 dollars, and expect to lose it at least once, possibly two to three times before getting the hang of it.

They say it takes up to 10 years to be a day trader. I hopefully will pick it up in the next few. (been doing it about 13 months).

I realized that if you know how to trade, it doesn't really matter how much you have. People will literally give you cash. for you to invest. at that point, you get your brokers license. But you know what I mean. it's not the wealth that is our goal, it's the knowledge. I realized while learning, that I would love to find someone with the know how, to do what I do, and not have to do it anymore. I would love to quit. it's a lot of reading. but until I find that person, and I can pay them to do it. I will just do it myself.

most brokers offer no more than 10% a year. If they offer more, then look out.
better check their references.

so far I am up that much in the last 30 days.

 

[createdtoworship]

there are also robo investors, but again you are not getting even 10% most likely only a few percent annually.

http://www.frugalrules.com/betterment-vs-wealthfront/

a good mutual fund will trump that easy. But good thing about robo investors, is that they don't have 1-2% fees for managment, because they are automated.

so a 3% gain is really three percent, not 1% as in a mutual fund.

you mention housing, I believe Wealthfront offers some realestate funds.

 

[createdtoworship]

In proverbs 31 a woman buys a field..
Lydia was a seller of purple
Dorcas made coats.

Maybe I should invest in homes and clothing? Or land, but, managed funds are companies..so, just wondered what companies would be christian, or have christian values I know the Warehouse group is. Thats a big box retailer.
Fonterra is a dairy company.
Fletchers is a building company.

I wouldn't want to give Disney any money. I just am in horror of the amount of merchandising junk they generate.

you are asking good moral questions about the morality of companies we use and invest in.

target - boycotted for liberal restroom policy.(walmarts stock went up after boycott, while target's went down)
home depot- donates publicaly to homosexual parades, and other liberal causes, unashamedly. Lowes is a very good company on the other hand. As far as investing, lowes is not a good business for investment, because they are too consumer friendly. Best returns available. for example.

but home depot has a great business model, and is a better investment strategy, but I avoid them all together due to their policy, and choose another good business model such as walmart.

(but none of the above, do i hold investment in, this is simply discussion and not advice)

 

[Goodbook]

Well, i dont know too much about american companies which obviously have a bigger market,
if i were to invest in nz owned companies...

And do it ethically...

Or wisely

I might choose...well, I dont know I have to read the business paper and look up each company listed and research what their values are, not just monetary, but whether they support charities and community with their profits, I know Warehouse group does.

Or maybe theres a company that makes, say gumboots. Skellerup for example. That is a practical item of clothing and they make very good quality ones that are manufactured here.
If i invested in their company because their product was beneficial, that means i am supporting the local community and gardeners and farmers so that people wont be tempted to biy cheaper, lesser quality gumboots from china? If i invest over a certain period and then sell when season is right (more people need to buy gumboots in winter) would that be an ethical investment?

 

[Freedom Now]

Ethical investing?


If you want high returns and dividends (benefits), then this would be for you......





Invest in the poor and you will have treasures in heaven and benefits that money cannot buy.

It is a win , win, you cannot loose.




But if you are more interested in earthly treasure, go ahead gamble on the markets.

I think there is a scripture somewhere that says that it is hard for a rich man to inherit the

kingdom of God, probably because his mind is focused on becoming richer still , but

does not realize that he has been given more, so he can help others.


He who does not renounce all that he has cannot be My disciple. ......words Jesus spoke.


Are you His disciple?

 

[Goodbook]

Yes, of course. I am not doing this money course to get rich quick, i am doing it to gain knowledge and wisdom.
Investing in the markets to me is kinda gambling.
And its complicated and time consuming.

We are to give what we have cheerfully and the poor appreciate it better than the rich.
Also the bible says not to get involved with usury..im not sure if this means dont ever charge interest or compound interest on any money you lend...its better to give and not expect it back. Any money we give to the poor God will pay us back anyway.

I know this one guy who invested in blue chip companies and he lost it all, went bankrupt. And many elderly folk got taken for a ride by finance companies. Even this widow i talked to, she did that, and she started to becomed obssessed with how much money she had, like she was watching the interest rates all the time. But i cant do that, as they change minute by minute.

 

[dysert]

Yes, of course. I am not doing this money course to get rich quick, i am doing it to gain knowledge and wisdom.
Investing in the markets to me is kinda gambling.
And its complicated and time consuming.

We are to give what we have cheerfully and the poor appreciate it better than the rich.
Also the bible says not to get involved with usury..im not sure if this means dont ever charge interest or compound interest on any money you lend...its better to give and not expect it back. Any money we give to the poor God will pay us back anyway.

I know this one guy who invested in blue chip companies and he lost it all, went bankrupt. And many elderly folk got taken for a ride by finance companies. Even this widow i talked to, she did that, and she started to becomed obssessed with how much money she had, like she was watching the interest rates all the time. But i cant do that, as they change minute by minute.

You don't have to invest in the markets. And it need not be complicated or time consuming. Imo, investing should be a long-term thing, so you don't need to watch anything. Just commit a certain $ amount every paycheck to go into your investment (this is called dollar-cost-averaging). Over time it will build steadily. If you don't want to invest in the market, then either invest in a money market mutual fund or even buy CDs at a bank. The important thing is to set aside a given amount of money regularly for a long period of time. Generally speaking, the amount of risk you want to take will determine how much return you'll realize. (But you're right -- if you're in the market it could tank at any time.)

 

[dqhall]

I love all your verses you speak of, the Bible talks a lot of money yes.


They say it takes up to 10 years to be a day trader. I hopefully will pick it up in the next few. (been doing it about 13 months).

I realized that if you know how to trade, it doesn't really matter how much you have. People will literally give you cash. for you to invest. at that point, you get your brokers license. But you know what I mean. it's not the wealth that is our goal, it's the knowledge. I realized while learning, that I would love to find someone with the know how, to do what I do, and not have to do it anymore. I would love to quit. it's a lot of reading. but until I find that person, and I can pay them to do it. I will just do it myself.

most brokers offer no more than 10% a year. If they offer more, then look out.
better check their references.

so far I am up that much in the last 30 days.

 

[dqhall]

During the 90's a friend recommended penny stocks to me. A swindler with a penny stock radio show had her hooked and enticed me to invest in a mining company in South America that turned out to be fraud as they did not even own the mine they were promoting. It was before the Internet was widely known. I lost most of my savings. The radio show host was indicted on charges of fraud. Years later I went to a short term - swing trading seminar. I lost money short term trading, but not nearly as bad as with fraudulent penny stocks. In 2000 it seemed like the market would only go down. I sold out and held cash. In 2001 I paid cash for a condo/coop in DC and it watched it double and double again during the real estate boom. In the 2007 or 2008 the market was crashing again. I sold out. In 2010 I was in again. No longer was I like one lost in the woods. I started to understand securities analysis. I profited from the peak oil scare by buying and holding oil stocks and profited from the railroad when they were adding coal cars by the hundreds. I sold these positions when they were ripe for selling, more or less.

It is most important to seek the Lord first as Jesus taught, for God can bless a man and make him not to lose way or stumble. I had to read the Gospels over and over. I had to read Acts and the Epistles until I began to change for the better. I liked the later part of Isaiah and had studied Jewish observance of the Torah in a limited sense. It helped me understand why Paul did not want to put the burden of the entire Jewish legal code on the backs of Gentiles, yet had to affirm parts of the law as essential.

 

[Goodbook]

Im coming back to this thread as have a bit more time to read up on it and go over it.

Are bonds a good investment?
I read that you must ladder them so you can get income each year or something like that.

Isnt buying bonds just like lending money to the govt for a fixed amount of interest. Is it biblical to do that?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's rare to learn.
QUOTE="Freedom Now, post: 69943415, member: 388535"]Ethical investing?


If you want high returns and dividends (benefits), then this would be for you......





Invest in the poor and you will have treasures in heaven and benefits that money cannot buy.

It is a win , win, you cannot loose.




But if you are more interested in earthly treasure, go ahead gamble on the markets.

I think there is a scripture somewhere that says that it is hard for a rich man to inherit the

kingdom of God, probably because his mind is focused on becoming richer still , but

does not realize that he has been given more, so he can help others.


He who does not renounce all that he has cannot be My disciple. ......words Jesus spoke.


Are you His disciple? QUOTE

 

[Goodbook]

I was just reading this retirement book, it wasnt christian, its just something I picked up that all nzers are supposed to know about.

Im not of that age but a lot of people I know are (in my church) and they go off on cruises and holidays and stuff.

I would think that retired people would be glad of their rest and not spend it all just on themselves but giving to others. And not worry about investments and such likes cos nobody knows exactly when they are going to die anyway.

 

[Goodbook]

I think if it where me I would shout someone who couldnt afford to go a holiday as well.
Although after working all those years I think ppl do deserve a break and to go away if theyve never had the opportunity while working to do so.

I do think ppl worry excessively how they going to live with no income, but God provides.
Or you just budget. Our govt threatens to cut off the pension so that my generation probably wont get it.

 

[Goodbook]

I think all this investment scaring stuff, sharkemarets, bonds and property is rubbish.

Just give your money away and leave it with God to distribute. I dont think God really wants peoples money anyway, although thats what a lot of churches teach these days. i got a random generated letter the other day from one asking me go fund another ministers lifestyle so he could preach the gospel. I dont even know this minister...


It didnt ask for prayer it just asked for money and gave me an envelope so I could put money in and even said how much. He had to come all the way from england to preach if he didnt have enough money he would have to go back, but we have people here already that can preach and they never ask me for money.

If that minister genuinely needed money he would have asked me personally or God would have laid it on my heart to give him something, but He didnt.