You seem to be slipping further & further into trouble here.
& I'd also mention this, that if you can't even concieve of God sending evil monsters to hell, I certainly wouldn't think you could concieve of Him sending anyone less than a horrible monster to the same place.
Slipping further and further into trouble am I?.. lol! You won't commit yourself will you Nadiine. You haven't answered my questions.
So I'm better than some terrible monster am I? Just because I've accepted Christ into my life?
I prefer to see the terrible monsters be punished and given their due desserts and judgments and then brought to repentance and accept the Lord as their Savior than to see them thrown into some pit endlessly being tormented. I would LOVE to see Hitler judged punished and brought to repentance than to see him in your place of endless hell. I also believe that punishment would be a terrible and severe punishment, and I would love to see him on his knees before all the people he tortured and killed. And I will love to see God heal all those people. But according to your doctrine even most of those, who suffered the worst hell on earth, will go on to suffer even more, endlessly, at the hands of God too.
So we won't get anywhere on emotional ploys either way with anyone
& that's what I believe most of this is about.
Nobody wants people to get separated from God, so some just invent
doctrine that makes them feel better.
This is the Christian Ethics and Morality forum.. I thought you knew that. This is not a strictly theology forum, here we try to think things out and work through the scriptures to apply them to our own lives, thoughts, inner workings. It's not as cut and dried like you want it to be with no place given for emotions or feelings.
I'm not giving you a 'ploy'... when you people don't want to go into the depths of things and think things out, you come up with the 'emotional ploy'.. ploy! You want to apply the scriptures like it's all facts and figures. I thought this forum was for discussing things, but I see such an unwillingness to talk things through. When I ask questions to try to get to the basics of what you really believe (cuz sometimes I think you don't know) you try this emotional ploy business.
You also seem to be forgetting there are levels of punishment. Even if they were banished from His prescence, their works are judged.
Again, God is either holy & just or He isn't.
Yes, there are levels of punishment, now and in the future. The LOF is a second death, it'll be punishment alright.. however, the levels of punishment are given in the Law of Moses, and nowhere is any sin given the punishment of endless punishment. ALL punishment will be given in the presence of the Lamb and the angels.. there is no other place of separation from God.
But do you KNOW each one's fate? Can you prove who God will judge either way? No. & frankly neither can we.
I believe the scriptures over all say that all men are... saved. And will be saved, and ALL of us will be held accountable for our own sins and punished accordingly, or given reward accordingly.
You don't know how God will judge them becuz you don't know THEM and what they each know, what God has revealed to them of Himself, what they did according to their consciences?
NO.
No, I don't know what they've done or how God is going to punish them, but one thing I know (even if it is by faith in the goodness and kindness of God) is that they will not be punished endlessly.
All we do know for fact is that God judges based on knowledge including inward conscience/heart.
God judges according to their works.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
You cannot say ALL in each of these categories are going anywhere or not.
I believe I can say that ALL in those categories will be saved. I could give tons of scripture but that's been shown to be pretty useless.
& anything you try to raise up isn't a 'trap' (to HM) as far as I'm concerned becuz you cannot prove anything as to where ALL of these groups of people you mention are going -
you don't know God's judgment or their individual knowledge or status.
I don't know His judgments... HOW He is going to judge and punish, but I do know that from scripture when He judges it is for a reason and a purpose.. to bring forgiveness, healing, restitution and wholeness... and righteousness.
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee earnestly:
for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.
You talk of a Trinity... but the scriptures do not spell it out. Now you want to have the fact that Christ saves ALL spelled out... it has actually been spelled out but everyone would rather believe what their church/denomination/theologians/teachers believe rather than the Bible.
But I will say this, again -- this doesn't come CLOSE to supporting
Universalism - becuz on the flipside, you're taking the unrepentant who DO know God's truth, deny it & live in wickedness & putting them into heaven along w/ the innocent.
But that is hardness of heart. Not one of us is righteous, not one. When I look at someone in terrible sin who has walked away from God.. in what I CAN see of their lives... then I thank God, for there but by the grace of God go I. You don't know what His judgments will accomplish in their lives. For me, I trust that God knows how to reach each and every person.
