Eschatology

[nephilimiyr]

Isn’t that where you drink the kool-aid, put the handkerchief over your face and the mother ship picks you up?

Are you talking about Applewhite and the Heaven's Gate cult who all committed suicide?

 

[jeolmstead]

Are you talking about Applewhite and the Heaven's Gate cult who all committed suicide?

(Calm down Neph, it was a joke.....)

John O.

 

[nephilimiyr]

(Calm down Neph, it was a joke.....)

John O.

You calm down, I haven't taken any of that seriously.

 

[jeolmstead]

You calm down, I haven't taken any of that seriously.

I'm so calm and cool, any more so and I would be asleep.....

John O.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I'm so calm and cool, any more so and I would be asleep.....

John O.

Okay, just don't die on us, we need you to help us figure out what "Transtemporal idealism' means and how it pertains to eschatology.

 

[Strong in Him]

Voted "other" because it's all so confusing I gave up even trying to understand.

One day Jesus is coming back to get me, and I'll be with Him forever, that's the part I need to know.

What she said (except I haven't voted yet.)

When Jesus comes, I'll get him to explain it to me.

 

[LogosRhema]

Pan-millennial: everything will pan out in the end (w00t)

I honestly don't know any more. I believe Christ will return and press the almighty reset button, but beyond that I tend to look at Revelations symbolically. Though I do question about the end times and what not. No idea. Not worried about it, goes back to what I said first. Right now, all I have is today and all I know is that today... That I need to keep at this race!

 

[oneshot012]

Transtemporal Idealism also known as a Redemptive-Historical Form of Modified Idealism. It is not something that you are going to find much of on the internet. Greg Beale is where you have to go to get this in his 1200 page commentary on Revelation.

Anyhow this is an augmentation of the Idealist perspective which acknowledges a final consummation in salvation and judgment. Some people would call this view eclecticism. We hold to an inaugurated eschatology, the Kingdom is now but not yet. The events of prophecy, most specifically Revelation, have potentially not one but many fulfillments. There are times when the partial preterist's are right but the historicist as well. The book of Revelation speaks to all ages at all times.

Let me put this on the ground floor:

Antiochus Epiphanes, Nero, Titus, Hitler, and Omar al Bashir etc are all the Beast. To be quite blunt if the horns fit wear em.

I hope that helps.

And no it is not kool-aid cultish...in fact it is quite scholarly and well respected in the academic community.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hey oneshot, thanks for that explanation.

After that I think I could easily have also voted for transtemporal idealism because like all of those on the list, I find some truth in it.

 

[MrSnow]

I voted for several, and if there were more I would have had a few more as well.

Actually, I believe that most people's eschatology is far more elaborate than what scripture allows for. I believe that it actually has relatively little to say about it.

I tend to think that most OT prophecy pertains to either something in the OT times (such as the return of the Jews to the promised land), or to the first coming of Christ.

I think that much of the NT refers to 70AD (and the events leading up to it), but definitely not all. So along those two lines I could be considered a partial preterist (since I think that most prophecies don't pertain to what we would call the future).

When it comes to revelation, I believe that it first and foremost pertains to the original audience, but that it also pertains to every generation who faces persecution (so whoever it was who just met his first idealist can now say that he's met his second). A lot of that belief comes from my understanding of Daniel's vision of the Son of Man in Daniel 7 and how it is quoted in the New Testament. I can elaborate on that more some other place (or not).

I don't believe in a pre-trib or mid-trib or pre-wrath rapture, but my emphasis is not on a rapture but on Christ's return, so I don't apply post-trib terminology to myself, although that was one of my choices that I voted for (I wonder if that is really supposed to be all one sentence).

I believe that Christ is currently reigning and that we are reigning with Him, and that His reign and Satan's binding took place when Christ first came, thus I am amil.

So I voted post-trib, partial preterist, amil, and panmil, although I could also have voted idealist, historicist, and futurist.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Pre-trib Rapture. I took the poll to a dead heat with Preterist. i have no idea what that label means.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Pre-trib Rapture. I took the poll to a dead heat with Preterist. i have no idea what that label means.

The preterist belief is that Jesus brought the full Kingdom in the year 70AD and there is no prophecy yet to be fulfilled. Partial-preterists believe about the samething but they believe Jesus will come again in the future, so there is some prophecy yet unfulfilled.

 

[MrSnow]

Pre-trib Rapture. I took the poll to a dead heat with Preterist. i have no idea what that label means.

The word is similar to the "preterite" tense in grammar, which is basically the "past" tense. Preterists, to varying degrees, believe that prophecies that many would ascribe to having a yet-future fulfillment had their primary fulfillment in the past. In particular preterists believe that most (some preterists would say ALL, but their views aren't allowed in this neck of the woods) were fulfilled in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Romans in 67-70AD.

Hope that clears things up for ya.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Thanks, Mr. Snow, and nephilimiyr!

I am not a preterist!

 

[Yekcidmij]

Just for fun, what is your Eschatological view.

No debate over which is more valid please, just an informal poll to see how things stack up. Most people tend to think that the majority of Christians are Dispensationsational, Pre-mill, Pre-tribbers.

I'm mostly amillenial. I thought I would be the only one, but I see a few others out there are as crazy as me.

 

[lismore]

Other. Very greived at the state of the church!

When you look up and see a black cloud, you know its going to rain. And yet no two Christians seems to agree on the most important event in History, the second coming of the Lord.

Its nothing to do with views, or scriptural interpretation. Its what the sunday cabaret club aka demonination obliges you to believe for membership. Whatever keeps the offering bucket full.

The Holy SPirit will lead us into all truth and yet we have a dozen different answers to a basic question? Oki doki. We are told to be ready for whats coming, but nobody can tell you whats coming. Is it any wonder people are deserting denominations in droves?

Lets cast off the baggage!

 

[RevKidd]

I used to be in the dispensational camp of eschatology. Not any more. I am more partial preterist than anything, but will say that full preterism, when studied in depth, makes for some strong arguments.

Redemptive-Historical Form of Modified Idealism

This is some what intresting. One thing that I have noticed is how cyclical history is.
I believe that the book of Revelation and many of the epistles speak to the first century church on how to have faith, hope and love during their up and coming tribulation from Rome. Peter, Paul, and John knew that something horrible was about to happen. So the question is, how do we apply that to us today? I think the writers were very specific and John was specific as to the who, what, where and when of Revelation. But the letter was preserved for a reason. And that reason, we then have descern how to apply that to our lives.

I wish I could believe that Christ was coming back in the next 50 years, but I don't believe that is going to happen. As Christians, our hope is not in the rapture, rather it is in eternal life and victory over death. Christ is our hope and that hope is His example.

 

[NacDan]

I'm very surprised at how low this part of theology (eschatology) is to most in this forum. I really think overall Christians focus too much on the End of Days.

Just for the record, I am at the moment amillenialist. I used to be a pre-tribber, but I can't make the Scriptures support that any longer.

Danny