Eschatology Poll #2/ How sure are you?

[lismore]

Hey there everyone

Sorry If what I posted stepped on anyone's toes, but I have never met so many people with no views on this subject.

I always took the WARNINGS in the bible about the end times as literal and something to get to grips with. Sometimes with God one warning is all that there is.

Bless You

 

[JimB]

Well, so far about one-fourth of us “absolutely” have it all figured out (unless, of course, they’ve got it wrong).

~Jim.

Write kindness in marble and injuries in dust.​

 

[lismore]

Well, so far about one-fourth of us “absolutely” have it all figured out (unless, of course, they’ve got it wrong).

~Jim.

But Jim talking about getting it wrong, I dont know if its something we can be lethargic about. I have read the book of Revelation and its no laughing matter. Its something I'd rather seek and find, rather than finding out later, when its too late.

Going through the Tribulation, would be the worst time in the History of the planet by far.

 

[Strong in Him]

Hello There

I apologise, I was being semi sarcastic. Sorry. I'll try better to explain now.

The Book Of Jeremiah describes the Great Tribulation as 'The Time of Jacob's Trouble'. Jacob changed his name to Israel, therefore the times of 'Israel's Trouble'. The book of Daniel and Revelation say that the Jews will take refuge over the Jordan in the desert and mountains of Moab and Edom during the great Tribulation. Many of the OT prophets give specific and clear descriptions/instructions about the Tribulation and what the Jews will do during the Tribulation to escape.

Some churches teach that God has replaced Israel with the church, therefore the church will be going through 'Jacob's Trouble', the tribulation, instead of Jacob. Therefore in light of the OP, those who teach this stuff better be very sure of their Eschatological views. If the church is going through the great Tribulation they will escape by escaping overnight and taking refuge in the Jordanian deserts during the Tribulation.

Jesus coming like a thief in the night is the imminent rapture view. In the tribulation view we know exactly when he comes, 7 years after the start of the tribulation. We can count down to the day and the hour!

In this context knowing what's really happening in the end times is vitally important. If the church going through the tribulation view is correct,
we will have to prepare for the Tribulation now to survive it. Indeed the Jews are stocking up food in the caves of Jordan for their stay there.

There is one place of safety for the elect 'the place prepared in the desert'. Its far away.

I dont subscribe to replacement theology, so I dont need to take Israel's place in the Tribulation. I dont need to hide in a Jordanian cave. PTL! Jesus is coming like a thief in the night for his church. To be ready you have to know the truth, otherwise you would be stocking up food in a cave, or stocking guns in your basement to shoot the people when they come to brand you with 666.

Just an aside, but my Uncle is a member of a church that believes they are going through the Trib and are the new Israel. He was obliged to buy a tent and a sleeping bag a few years ago. The church decided to take the bible as not literal, rather than Jorden, instead they would hide in the Scottish Hills for the tribulation. However, I used to do a bit of climbing and advised him that he would not live a week on the Scottish Hills in Winter, never mind seven years.

To be ready you have to know exactly whats coming. THose who believe the Tribulation is coming for them, should be getting ready now! If they are not prepared, they will not survive.

Ok, thanks. I'll need to think about that.

To be honest I don't think about end times all that much. I'm sure there have been people in every generation who were convinced that end times were just around the corner; during the second world war, for example, people had ID cards and London was bombed. Before the millennium, some people were stockpiling food, water etc, utterly convinced that all the computers were going to go into meltdown and we'd be in deep trouble. There was a feature about it on "This Morning"; Richard Madely said he felt a right idiot when nothing happened.

There have also been many candidates for 666.

Like I said; I'm positive that Jesus is comming back, and that's about it. I could be knocked off my mobility scooter tomorrow and get to meet him then, or I could suddenly find myself whisked up in the air one day. I don't see how I can prepare for either, beyond being sure that I am ready to face Jesus.

 

[JimB]

But Jim talking about getting it wrong, I dont know if its something we can be lethargic about. I have read the book of Revelation and its no laughing matter. Its something I'd rather seek and find, rather than finding out later, when its too late.

Going through the Tribulation, would be the worst time in the History of the planet by far.

But, what if you’ve got it all wrong? What if the dispensational doctrine of a secret "rapture" is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

What good would that do anyone?

As for the Trib, if it is future and not past as some believe, it would not matter to those of us who have faith in Christ. We would endure and overcome or, as you may believe, be secretly “raptured” prior to the hammer falling. Many Christians in the world today are going through tribulation, even great tribulation, and have every reason to believe they are going through the Big Trib already.

~Jim.

Write kindness in marble and injuries in dust.​

 

[lismore]

But, what if you’ve got it all wrong? What if the dispensational doctrine of a secret "rapture" is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

What good would that do anyone?

THats my point. Why dont we try to find out, rather than saying it doesnt matter? If it didnt matter, it wouldnt be in the bible at all?

 

[SharonL]

Hello There

If you dont know whats going to happen, there is no way you can be ready for it.

There is a big difference between getting raptured, or hiding in a cave in Moab and Edom for several years {viz Daniel}, if indeed you are going through the tribulation. If you are not getting raptured, do you know how to get to Moab and Edom? Are you ready for a four thousand mile walk? The Jews are preparing foodstuffs in the caves of Moab and Edom for their stay there, are you?

Lismore - where might I find more information on the caves? That is very interesting.

 

[Trish1947]

I don't have it all figured out. But the Apostles didn't either. They were looking for
the soon coming of Jesus too, with statements like " there are many anti-Christs in the world," "the time is shorter than we first believed" etc. they didn't see it, most of them we're put to death for their faith. The point is to be ready what ever happens. I don't think Jesus is going to hold anything against us if we don't understand it all. If your ready, what difference does it make if you believe Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Post-trib? He's coming for those that are looking for Him. And we all know He's coming a second time. He didn't say He was leaving anybody because they didn't know exactly when.

 

[lismore]

Lismore - where might I find more information on the caves? That is very interesting.

Hi There

I was on holiday In Jordan three years ago, near a place called Petra {which was used in the movie Indiana Jones and the Last crusade}, Christian and Jewish groups were stocking up caves with food for the Jewish refugees who will flee there half way through the Tribulation. I found about it all on holiday. 'The place prepared in the desert'.

these look like good links:

http://ldolphin.org/kingdom/ch11.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNU0D-F_WpM



God Bless You

 

[JimB]

THats my point. Why dont we try to find out, rather than saying it doesnt matter? If it didnt matter, it wouldnt be in the bible at all?

Why not? If we had the predictive prophecies of scripture all lined out (which obviously we don’t) then where would be the mystery of His coming? We know enough to keep us expectant and not enough to take away the mystery.

Anyhow, why do we think we have to know everything? All we need to know is enough to keep us seeking.

~Jim.

God brings us into deep waters not to drown us, but to cleanse us.​

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

When the ostrich sticks its head in the sand the lion doesnt eat them?

Hey there everyone

Sorry If what I posted stepped on anyone's toes, but I have never met so many people with no views on this subject.

I always took the WARNINGS in the bible about the end times as literal and something to get to grips with. Sometimes with God one warning is all that there is.

Bless You

That's not 'stepping on toes', that's ridiculing in an insulting manner. Not good. I choose not to take offense, but I did want to let you know you don't do your position any favors that way.

I don't have it all figured out. But the Apostles didn't either. They were looking for
the soon comming of Jesus too, with statements like " there are many anti-Christs in the world," "the time is shorter than we first believed" etc. they didn't see it, most of them we're put to death for their faith. The point is to be ready what ever happens. I don't think Jesus is going to hold anything against us if we don't understand it all. If your ready, what difference does it make if you believe Pre-trib, Mid-trib, Post-trib? He's coming for those that are looking for Him. And we all know He's coming a second time. He didn't say He was leaving anybody because they didn't know exactly when.

And that's my position with a fuller explanation.

I don't take it lightly. I do know the signs, and will recognize what's going on when it happens. But I don't know which theory is correct, and the more I study it the less certain I am.

 

[Trish1947]

Originally Posted by lismore

Hey there everyone

Sorry If what I posted stepped on anyone's toes, but I have never met so many people with no views on this subject.

I always took the WARNINGS in the bible about the end times as literal and something to get to grips with. Sometimes with God one warning is all that there is.

Bless You

I don't believe there's very many people that aren't seeing the signs of His coming. I remember when Isreal became a Nation, I thought well that's it..He's coming maybe the next day. LOL..But correlating the signs that we do see, with Gods timing seems difficult. It's been alot of years gone by since 1948. Because that's a long time to us, but apparently no time to God. Personally, I do change my views on it from time to time. I used to be Pre-trib, the more I read the Word, I thought Mid-Trib, now I'm Post-Trib. I may do this circle again, or just leave it to God. I think as time goes on, we will see more and more, that will change our thoughts about it once again. Who knows?... God does.
​

 

[JimB]

I don't believe there's very many people that aren't seeing the signs of His coming. I remember when Isreal became a Nation, I thought well that's it..He's coming maybe the next day. LOL..But correlating the signs with Gods timing seems difficult. It's been alot of years gone by since 1948. But that's along time to us, but apparently not to God. Personally
I do change my views on it from time to time. I used to be Pre-trib, the more I read the Word, I thought Mid-Trib, now I'm Post-Trib. I may do this circle again, or just leave it to God. I think as time goes on, we will see more and more, that will change our thoughts about it once again. Who knows?... God does.
​

Only a person who admits they do not know are willing to learn. As far as the predictive prophecies of the Bible, none of us know for sure (except, of course, those who think they do). All I am convinced about is that Jesus will return—when and how, I can only speculate, but I am content with the assurance that whether pre-, post-, or a-, He is coming again.

I am not really that concerned anymore about the Tribulation or Antichrist or vials or trumpets or whatever. There are just too many ideas about those things floating around out there and I have believed a few of them myself down through the years and only later learned that there were other, even more viable, interpretations. I have decided to just let those ambiguous things go and concentrate on other, more practical, more eternal things. There is enough of that in the Bible to keep me busy for a lifetime.

~Jim.

People don’t fail; they just give up trying.​

 

[nephilimiyr]

Only a person who admits they do not know are willing to learn. As far as the predictive prophecies of the Bible, none of us know for sure (except, of course, those who think they do). All I am convinced about is that Jesus will return—when and how, I can only speculate, but I am content with the assurance that whether pre-, post-, or a-, He is coming again.

I am not really that concerned anymore about the Tribulation or Antichrist or vials or trumpets or whatever. There are just too many ideas about those things floating around out there and I have believed a few of them myself down through the years and only later learned that there were other, even more viable, interpretations. I have decided to just let those ambiguous things go and concentrate on other, more practical, more eternal things. There is enough of that in the Bible to keep me busy for a lifetime.

This is very much how I see it also. The only real difference I have with you I think is that I do feel secure in my belief that Jesus will return in our generation, how it all will work out I am very confused about and have basically given up trying to figure it out.

Because I have moved on and have taken this subject off the top of my list of priorities should not in anyway cause people to think that I am therefore not preparing myself for coming events. Jesus said that we should always be prepared for his coming and that is how we all should look at it no matter what your eschatological belief is. If you don't believe that Jesus can come back at this very moment then I think you should start taking up that attitude, it's a good one to have.

 

[lismore]

Anyhow, why do we think we have to know everything? All we need to know is enough to keep us seeking.

He who seeks finds.

 

[lismore]

That's not 'stepping on toes', that's ridiculing in an insulting manner. Not good. I choose not to take offense, but I did want to let you know you don't do your position any favors that way.

Hello

My comment about the ostrich is the perception I got from your post. ANy offences then apologies. But every end time view I have heard of requires something specific and pro-active to be done by us first. Therefore the view 'it will all pan out in the end' is a paradox. If we dont work it out and pan it out, the coming of the Lord will postpone to a generation that will work it out and pan it out.

Hey but sorry for any offence caused. But now you see where I'm coming from.

 

[lismore]

The only real difference I have with you I think is that I do feel secure in my belief that Jesus will return in our generation, how it all will work out I am very confused about and have basically given up trying to figure it out.

Hello There

I believe Jesus will return in our generation only if we do what he has said must be done first. IMO the last generation blew it at the end of the 1980s Charismatic renewal, when all that went sour. Just as Joshua and Caleb's generation had to wander in the wilderness until they all died {apart from Joshua and Caleb} because of their disobedience, I think its the same today.

God Bless You

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hello There

I believe Jesus will return in our generation only if we do what he has said must be done first. IMO the last generation blew it at the end of the 1980s Charismatic renewal, when all that went sour. Just as Joshua and Caleb's generation had to wander in the wilderness until they all died {apart from Joshua and Caleb} because of their disobedience, I think its the same today.

God Bless You

I believe we are that same generation. To me a generation is anywhere from 80 to 100 years. Most scholars of the Bible view it anywhere from 40 to 120 years.

 

[ANM29]

Use to be pre-trib only because that is what 'they' said I was to believe, had no reason to question it I thought anyway at one time cos I allowed others without even realizing it to hear from God for me on just about everything, until I had my own personal encounter with God one day and from there things really changed..I for one do not believe in the 'rapture' anymore either...

I am totally confident in what I believe now...I know it is not going down near how the majority think..because they have been trying to timeline, color-line the events of God and it is not going to go down near the way they think..lol...

 

[ANM29]

What I do believe is that we are in the end times, yet we still are not close to the 'end' yet either..we are just entereing another 'age'..