Episcopal Church Moves to End Ban on Gay Bishops

[MarkSB]

My quoting national statistics shows that! WOW!

No, but the fact that you would see a church accept gay bishops and watch their numbers steadily decline because they are pushing liberalism, says something.

Not in the opinion of all Christian denominations.

Well, they can believe what they want, but its not what I believe Christianity should look like, and it goes against what the bible teaches.

 

[MarkSB]

Maybe, maybe not. I'd bet that a long hard look at the history of churches shows that these upheavals are not uncommon as some would wish. I can almost hear the voices of Christians who were probably quoting scripture to justify slavery, and decrying those who defied the bible to condemn it. And so on and so forth throughout history.

Yeah, forget about the ones who quoted scripture to condemn it.

When Paul talked about slavery he only said that slaves should not fight with their masters and vice-versa.

I know one simple thing. I cannot, and WILL not shortchange or disparage my fellow Americans who are gay. I will not stereotype them or dismiss their lives out of hand for the sake of any ideology. While I don't have any gay friends now( I did back east), if I should have any in the future. I will admonish and advice them on their flaws, and praise them and uplift them for their virtues. And I would find it as stupid as silly to heap abuses upon them for their sexuality as I would find it stupid and silly if they did that to me for finding short haired women sexy

I fail to see how not allowing (homosexually active) to be pastors is shortchanging them. It would be the same as allowing someone who is openly having sex outside of marriage to be a pastor. Both are sin.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

It would be the same as allowing someone who is openly having sex outside of marriage to be a pastor. Both are sin.

I didn't know that was allowed and I sure it shouldn't be allowed.I guess churches are making new rules to please people.

 

[MarkSB]

I didn't know that was allowed and I sure it shouldn't be allowed.I guess churches are making new rules to please people.

Well I've never seen it allowed, just thought I'd use it as an example.

Yeah, sure seems like churches are making rules to please people. Or making statements to get themselves in the political spotlight.

 

[Polycarp1]

Or maybe they see themselves as following the Gospel of Christ, and what He said was important to do, not the teachings of men who choose to selectively judge others on supposedly-Biblical commands?

 

[Followers4christ]

Actually, Matthew is not talking about hypocrisy. Rather, he is saying if you judge that God will judge you using the same standards you use. So, for example, you are saying the Episcopal church is wrong about gays and this makes it a "false church" because they got one thing wrong. So, God using this standard against you would mean if even one of your beliefs about God and sin is wrong, then your faith is thus false and you will be headed to hell.

Lets look at the end of the paragraph Matthew 7:5 "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

As we can clearly see in this passage it is talking about hypocrisy. Also in the other scriptures I qouted it tells us we should judge those in the church body (1 Corinthians 5:12, 1 Corinthians 6:1-6).The scriptures are clear that we as a body are supposed to keep each other accountable and bear each others burdens.

 

[Followers4christ]

Well, we have religious freedom in this country, thank God. They can believe however they want to believe, just as you. there is nothing wrong with that. I just think it's kind of rude to say any sort of faith is a 'false church' or 'another gospel'. Do you think the Mormons are a false church? They believe some pretty different stuff, but I wouldn't call them that because they are obviously happy and truly believe in what they believe in. Who are we to judge another's happiness?
Tolerance goes quite a long way in today's world.

First yes I believe the mormons are a false church. Because they preach another gospel (Galatians 1:6-8) called the book of mormon which makes them a false church. People can be happy and still be wrong, just as people can be happy and be headed for a eternity away from God. The bible tells us the hearts of all people are full of sin (Ecclesiastes 9:3,Jeremiah 17:9-10,Matthew 15:18-20) and people think they are happy just to die without ever knowing the love of God. We are told to be the light in this dark world (Matthew 5:14-16) and bear fruit for those who are lost so they can taste and see how great our God is.

Remember Jesus was never tolerant of other beliefs, he claimed he was the only way (John 14:6-7) and the other paths would lead to hell. Jesus said in Acts 4:12 " Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Today this is what the body of Christ is still proclaiming and we are called bigots or worse. But we cannot water down the gospel and say what ever works for you. Because by doing this we are hiding the message that will bring them eternal happiness.

 

[Polycarp1]

Lets look at the end of the paragraph Matthew 7:5 "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

As we can clearly see in this passage it is talking about hypocrisy. Also in the other scriptures I qouted it tells us we should judge those in the church body (1 Corinthians 5:12, 1 Corinthians 6:1-6).The scriptures are clear that we as a body are supposed to keep each other accountable and bear each others burdens.

Yes, we've said all along that hypocrites will judge their fellow Christians. Good of you to point out the Scripture; thanks!

 

[Followers4christ]

Yes, we've said all along that hypocrites will judge their fellow Christians. Good of you to point out the Scripture; thanks!

Loving and devoted followers of Christ will judge and keep their brothers and sisters accountable. But yes there will be some hypocrites who like Ted Haggard will condemn the very act he himself is dealing with. But true believers will always keep encouraging, Keep each other accountable (which includes Judging), and carry each others burdens.
　

1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

1 Corinthians 6:1-6 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!

Titus 2:15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

[Washington]

My quoting national statistics shows that! WOW!

No, but the fact that you would see a church accept gay bishops and watch their numbers steadily decline because they are pushing liberalism, says something.

Good grief! The article was in the New York Times for crying out loud. And as for the link to the declining membership, this was in direct response to the preceding post, #27. Obviously your distaste for seeing these numbers has clouded your thinking.

Not in the opinion of all Christian denominations.

Well, they can believe what they want, but its not what I believe Christianity should look like,

Fine, but then don't phrase your beliefs in terms of everyone.

and it goes against what the bible teaches.

It goes against what YOU believe the Bible teaches.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Yeah, forget about the ones who quoted scripture to condemn it.

When Paul talked about slavery he only said that slaves should not fight with their masters and vice-versa.





I fail to see how not allowing (homosexually active) to be pastors is shortchanging them. It would be the same as allowing someone who is openly having sex outside of marriage to be a pastor. Both are sin.

Oh I'm not forgetting them. Not forgetting this is a bit of the point. That schisms of that period caused by the divide between the abolitionists and those who still wanted it.

Since I am not religious or Episcopalian it would not be accurate to say I would referring to myself as not wanting to shortchange them by not allowing them to be ordained. I also don't believe in sin so that nixes that as well.

 

[SiderealExalt]

I didn't know that was allowed and I sure it shouldn't be allowed.I guess churches are making new rules to please people.

Does it ever occur to people that maybe their assumptions about why this is happening are......oh I dunno..WRONG?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Does it ever occur to people that maybe their assumptions about why this is happening are......oh I dunno..WRONG?

The bible they preach from says it's wrong,How do they explain that it not okay to live a life in sin when there living a lifestyle in sin,While everyone watches.Now if there bible says God doesn't care if you are having sex outside your marriage or in-gaged in a Gay lifestyle,Then I see no problem with this.

 

[SiderealExalt]

The bible they preach from says it's wrong,How do they explain that it not okay to live a life in sin when there living a lifestyle in sin,While everyone watches.Now if there bible says God doesn't care if you are having sex outside your marriage or in-gaged in a Gay lifestyle,Then I see no problem with this.

Your reply has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Your reply has nothing to do with what I said.

[/quote]I believe the Church is giving into worldly temptations because there losing followers ,And if that's what most people believe I would say that's correct,But I don't know what most people believe.Also I don't see how someone sinning everyday and going against Gods belief can teach followers of the church about God if their not doing what God wants to to do,They will be teaching the bible,The bible teaches against that behavior,So to me it makes no since that they would preach in the first place,Unless there going to start saying God doesn't care if people sin or God didn't mean what he said about Homosexual behavior.

 

[SiderealExalt]

I believe the Church is giving into worldly temptations because there losing followers ,And if that's what most people believe I would say that's correct,But I don't know what most people believe.Also I don't see how someone sinning everyday and going against Gods belief can teach followers of the church about God if their not doing what God wants to to do,They will be teaching the bible,The bible teaches against that behavior,So to me it makes no since that they would preach in the first place,Unless there going to start saying God doesn't care if people sin or God didn't mean what he said about Homosexual behavior.[/quote]

Yes very good, that is yours. It's also not what I typed. So like I said, your reply didn't have anything to do with what I typed. I hope one comes though.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I believe the Church is giving into worldly temptations because there losing followers ,And if that's what most people believe I would say that's correct,But I don't know what most people believe.Also I don't see how someone sinning everyday and going against Gods belief can teach followers of the church about God if their not doing what God wants to to do,They will be teaching the bible,The bible teaches against that behavior,So to me it makes no since that they would preach in the first place,Unless there going to start saying God doesn't care if people sin or God didn't mean what he said about Homosexual behavior.

Yes very good, that is yours. It's also not what I typed. So like I said, your reply didn't have anything to do with what I typed. I hope one comes though.[/quote]Then what did you type,I thought I answered what you type,Unless you meant it in a different way.

 

[uberd00b]

Slowly but surely the tide continues to change.

Heck what is conservative if not the resistance to change. Steadily the various Churches are catching up with everybody else. It seems faith is a moral retardant.

 

[MarkSB]

Good grief! The article was in the New York Times for crying out loud. And as for the link to the declining membership, this was in direct response to the preceding post, #27. Obviously your distaste for seeing these numbers has clouded your thinking.

Huh?

Fine, but then don't phrase your beliefs in terms of everyone.

Don't know that I did, but it is what the bible teaches, and the bible as the Word of God is a cornerstone of the christian religion.

It goes against what YOU believe the Bible teaches.

Show me one place in the bible where a homosexual relationship is used as a model, or where homosexual marriage is ordained.

Beside that, this goes back to the original point I made that you don't believe in the Bible or the God of the Bible anyway, so you really have no business teaching people what they ought to believe. It would be like if I walked into a Buddist monastary and started telling people how to be better Buddists.

 

[kiwimac]

Show me one place where computers were used or ordained, show me where modern medicine was mentioned, Plastic surgery, Reattachments of Limbs? No? So why is a Biblical model of a homosexual relationshop important to you?