Ending Hyper Futurism with one verse

xXChristPeripheralXx

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,031
19
✟1,337.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
What of substance did I add? What meaning of the verse changed by what i put in Brackets?

Do you know about bracketing?

again I can recommend a computer class in your area if you like.

I live in central florida, some computer classes would be great if you can recommend them.

You added "1st century church of Sardis"


I cant find that in my Bibles, and I have 15, perhaps you can direct me to a credible source that proves that is part of the verse?

I just would imagine that if Jesus wanted that added to the verse, he would have just had John include it, dont you think?
 
Upvote 0

xXChristPeripheralXx

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,031
19
✟1,337.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Rev. 22's warning is as to the little book sayings that John ate.
It is for the messaages that came to him after he had heard the 7th trumpet bring finish to the mystery that he was writing.

the mystery of God
finishes at the 7th trumpet

but the little book contained more prophecy
So - John ate it.
Seal not the sayings - of the prophecy of this book-


Exactly why Revelation hasnt happened yet.


Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev_10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Rev_22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.



Ok, so from the time of Johns prophecy until the Angel in Rev10:1 He is given the prophecy of Revelation up until that point.

John is only ever instructed to seal up the 7 thunders in 10:4, but then he resumes with the book he eats, and is commanded to prophecy.



Whether or not John is continuing from the beginning of Rev doesnt matter, the book he ate was a prophecy for him to give, so whether or not its the little book he ate, or the entire book of Revelation doesnt matter, he is commanded not to seal the "book"..


Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

And to this day remains an open prophecy...
 
Upvote 0

xXChristPeripheralXx

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,031
19
✟1,337.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
God will bring an end to all nonsense, with His appearing. Amen!

From Everlasting (beginning-Father) to Everlasting (ending-Son), He is our God. What is in between is what we have been living within, and without.

You are right..

Mat_10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

Mar_4:22 For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.

Luk_8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Luk_12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

God bless
 
Upvote 0

Gnarwhal

☩ Broman Catholic ☩
Oct 31, 2008
20,371
12,069
36
N/A
✟423,547.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
First, lets parallel that verse. I noticed you didnt do it, so Id like to help you make your case against the futurists. First, we need to see if we can verify the verse against the Bible. Oh, look, we have a previous prophecy from Christ that matches. Mat_24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Luk_12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. So now we essentially have 4 verse that confirm what Christ was saying Chronologically. To the extent the prophecy is given, we can trace it from Matthew all the way to Rev 16:15. So, we need to see if the events in Rev16 have happened yet. Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. Since Christs prophecy is given in Matthew, and the last we hear about it is Rev16:15, then we know that any events prior to 16:15 that havent happened, means that this prophecy being used hasnt happened. Fortunately, I just happened to have a pic I made from Google showing the Euphrates, which in fact, has yet to dry up.. Prophecy unfulfilled.

Lots of emboldened and color-coded text tells me all I need to know about a given post.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Im sorry, what is your point?

I can only see what Rev 3:3 says.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

You should provide a commentary on this verse if you want me to rebut it.


My Bracketed statements ARE my commentary silly.

By "bracketing" them within the passage it renders them separate and distinct FROM the passage.
So your charge of me "adding" to the verse is preposterous. And I know you know better.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Revelation 3:3

Remember [1st century Church at Sardis] therefore how you[1st century Church at Sardis] have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you [1st century church at Sardis] will not watch, I will come upon you [1st century church at Sardis] as a thief, and you [1st century church at Sardis]will not know what hour I will come upon you[1st century church at Sardis].

Hi parousia70, do you really think that Ezekiel 28:12-19 is talking about the literal King of Tyrus at the time? Ezekiel 27 is, but not Ezekiel 28. There is a principle involved there, that applies to the 7 churches.


Doug
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Hi parousia70, do you really think that Ezekiel 28:12-19 is talking about the literal King of Tyrus at the time? Ezekiel 27 is, but not Ezekiel 28. There is a principle involved there, that applies to the 7 churches.


Doug


So your contention is that the letters to the seven churches were not letters to 7 ACTUAL 1st century Churches in Asia Minor?
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
So your contention is that the letters to the seven churches were not letters to 7 ACTUAL 1st century Churches in Asia Minor?
My point is that the letters to the churches is in similitude to Ezekiel 28 and Ezekiel 27, to the king of Tyrus. There is information in those two chapters that are to the literal at the time, and the figurative to the future using code names. Church of Philidephia, for example, is a code name. As is the church of Laodecia.


Doug
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Where does scripture teach this?

The understanding is veiled. Apart from the Holy Spirit, it can not be understood, even though it is something that Jesus said to be written down.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.




Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,685
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Were the 7 Churches Jesus told John to write to by name, 7 actual 1st century christian congregations that existed in the cities cited?

Yes or no

They were as much as the king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 27 was a literal king at the time, but was figuratively a code name in Ezekiel 28 which was not the literal king of Tyrus.
 
Upvote 0

Achilles6129

Veteran
Feb 19, 2006
4,504
367
Columbus, Ohio
✟29,682.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Republican
Revelation 3:3

Remember [1st century Church at Sardis] therefore how you[1st century Church at Sardis] have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you [1st century church at Sardis] will not watch, I will come upon you [1st century church at Sardis] as a thief, and you [1st century church at Sardis]will not know what hour I will come upon you[1st century church at Sardis].

So you are ignoring a few possibilities here:

1) Christ is referring to a spiritual coming in judgment for these 1st century people

2) The "church of Sardis" may represent both the 1st century congregation and a part of the church universal.

So your contention is that the letters to the seven churches were not letters to 7 ACTUAL 1st century Churches in Asia Minor?

They were, but they can also be representative of the universal church. The reason is because the 7 churches parallel the 7 heads that the dragon/beast have. These 7 heads are 7 kings/kingdoms extending throughout all of history that persecute the church. It makes sense that their parallel is thus universal in scope as well.

Now, another interesting fact is that the number of universality in the book of Revelation is 4. There are, for example, 4 living creatures ("beasts") who evidently represent all of God's creation. Why is this so interesting? Simply because the term "seven churches" is found four, and exactly four, times in Revelation. This is good evidence that the seven churches are the church universal, for four is the number of universality:

"4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:" Rev. 1:4a (NRSV)

"11 saying, “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches," Rev. 1:11a (NRSV)

" 20 As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches." Rev. 1:20 (NRSV)

Were the 7 Churches Jesus told John to write to by name, 7 actual 1st century christian congregations that existed in the cities cited?

Yes or no

Yes, but they also represent the church universal.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

xXChristPeripheralXx

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,031
19
✟1,337.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Were the 7 Churches Jesus told John to write to by name, 7 actual 1st century christian congregations that existed in the cities cited?

Yes or no

So you made an objective observation about the Church of Sardis existing in 1st century, but you are now asking if they are 1st century congregations?

Are you even sure yourself?

Do you just make baseless claims because it sounds good?
 
Upvote 0

xXChristPeripheralXx

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,031
19
✟1,337.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
The understanding is veiled. Apart from the Holy Spirit, it can not be understood, even though it is something that Jesus said to be written down.

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.




Luke 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.


The Spirit hasnt revealed to him the discernment required to understand the Churches in Revelation and why Christ is addressing them the exact way he is..

The Bible is for those in Spirit, otherwise it reads like Chinese to them lol..

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

They think satan, the god of this world, is telling them that preterist rhetoric is what Jesus had in mind.

They got the wrong Jesus Christ

Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
 
Upvote 0

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,937
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟531,725.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Revelation 3:3

Remember [1st century Church at Sardis] therefore how you[1st century Church at Sardis] have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you [1st century church at Sardis] will not watch, I will come upon you [1st century church at Sardis] as a thief, and you [1st century church at Sardis]will not know what hour I will come upon you[1st century church at Sardis].

Your error is imagining that this applied only to the first century church at Sardis. It was indeed originally addressed to them. But you have zero evidence (other than your chosen system of interpretation) to claim that it only applied to them during the first century.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

xXChristPeripheralXx

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,031
19
✟1,337.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Your error is imagining that this applied only to the first century church at Sardis. It was indeed originally addressed to them. But you have zero evidence (other than your chosen system of interpretation) to claim that it only applied to them during the first century.

I love you..:wave:

I just do..

I love your logic, your interpretation, your discernment..

I just love it all..


You are a blessing to this forum.. I dont care what the others say..
 
Upvote 0