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End of Times - Does Jesus Know The Date?

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by CantThinkofaUserName, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. CantThinkofaUserName

    CantThinkofaUserName Regular Member

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    Matthew 24 - 36:

    "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

    Please use scripture to prove your examples.

    Thanks!
     
  2. theVirginian

    theVirginian Regular Member

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    No, He doesn't know the date.

    "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."- Matthew 24 - 36.

    :)
     
  3. CantThinkofaUserName

    CantThinkofaUserName Regular Member

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    ^Thanks!

    Couple other questions:

    1.) If neither the Son, nor the angels, but only the Father knows when the end of times is, how then does Jesus have an idea as to when the end will come?

    Matthew 24:14:

    And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and THEN the end will come.

    2.) If He doesn't know, then that would imply that Jesus is not God, correct? If not, please explain.
     
  4. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    "Jesus gave them this answer: 'I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.'" - John 5:19-23

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." - John 1:1-3

    This gives us insight into the relationship between the Father and the Son. The Son is there to do the Father's will. How does he know what the Father's will is? Because the Father shares it with him. The Father had not shared the day or the hour of the Son's return to Earth with the Son at the time when Jesus said he didn't know the day or the hour. But he did share what it was going to be like when he does come back.

    Given all this, are the Father and Son two different gods? No. After all, you do need a brain to call the shots and appendages to do what the brain wants to do. God is a huge and complex being well beyond our understanding. He is complex in his unity, which led believers to theorize the Trinity.
     
  5. CantThinkofaUserName

    CantThinkofaUserName Regular Member

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    Good point. Jesus speaks of the occurrences, not of the actual date.

    Three yet one - perhaps a mystery that cannot be understood by the mind.

    But can you please attempt to explain to me, using scripture, or even your opinion, how Jesus can be God and not know everything God knows?
     
  6. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    Well, there's God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All three are God, yet each of them has their roles. The Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Spirit. But all three are one God. Kind of like a three headed creature, or the three leaflets in a single shamrock leaf. The three leaflets don't need to be exactly alike, nor do the three heads need to have 100% of their knowledge in common, but they keep their distinction while being part of the larger whole.
     
  7. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    figuratively one...not literally one. It's like saying your spirit and you are one in being, but two separate entities...does that make sense to you? It's all conceptual to us.
     
  8. drich0150

    drich0150 Regular Member

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    God is a title and not a name: (Kinda like Mr. President)
    God the Father
    God the Son
    God the Holy Spirit

    We are told in many scriptural examples of the three having different roles or knowledge that are independent of one another. Yet God is all knowing and all powerful.

    The three together make one God.

    Kinda like the US Government. There is only one governing body that presided over the United States, but the government is divided into the Legislative branch, the Judicial branch and the Executive branch. All three are distinct, but equal in their roles, and yet there is only one government.
     
  9. Jpark

    Jpark Contributor

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    Never mind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  10. CantThinkofaUserName

    CantThinkofaUserName Regular Member

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    Gotcha, thanks!

    Using a human body as an example: The brain is the Father, the heart is the Son, and the soul is the Spirit. They're all within "one" body, but the mind is not the heart, it's the mind, yet they're all very closely related to one another within the body.

    Wonder if there's a connection to the cross. When people touch their foreheads and say, "the Father", then their heart and say, "the Son", and then the shoulders and say, "the Holy Spirit." Thinking out loud...sorry.
     
  11. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    Crossing yourself isn't part of the tradition I grew up with, so I can't help ya there.
     
  12. Adoniram

    Adoniram Senior Member

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    Jesus always has been, and always will be God. This is evident from the first chapter of John.

    John 1
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

    In heaven with God, His was a glorious nature.

    John 17
    5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    But He left heaven to come and dwell among men.

    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

    John, Peter, and James were privileged to behold Jesus in all His glory at the Mount of Transfiguration.

    Mt. 17
    1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

    But in becoming flesh, Jesus willingly gave up certain of His heavenly privileges.

    Phil. 2
    5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

    While still being God, [and here I defer to the commentary of John MacArthur because I think he sums it up pretty nicely] Jesus temporarily "set aside His privileges in several areas: 1) heavenly glory- while on earth He gave up the glory of a face-to-face relationship with God and the continuous outward display and personal enjoyment of that glory; 2) independent authority- during His incarnation Christ completely submitted himself to the will of His Father; 3) divine prerogatives- He set aside the voluntary display of His divine attributes and submitted Himself to the Spirit's direction; 4) eternal riches- while on earth Christ was poor and owned very little; and 5) a favorable relationship with God-He felt the Father's wrath for human sin while on the cross. As a true servant, Jesus submissively did the will of His Father. Christ became more than just God in a human body, He took on all the essential attributes of humanity, even to the extent that he identified with basic human needs and weaknesses. He became the God-Man: fully God and fully man."

    I think that while on earth, Jesus even set aside certain knowledge that He had had while in heaven and that's why he could truthfully say "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

    But I would also have to say that now, as Jesus sits "at the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb. 1:3), and He has assumed His rightful place with all of His heavenly glory and attributes, that He does know exactly when He will come again, and is patiently waiting until the last person He has called has come into the fold, referred to in the Scriptures "fullness" of the Gentiles and of time.

    Rom. 11
    25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

    Eph. 1
    9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.
     
  13. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    Bear in mind that all analogies for the Trinity are misleading.

    So far as the original question, the Son set aside his omniscience (and omnipotence) in the incarnation to become truly and fully human; you can't be human without taking on the limations that come with that.
     
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