1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

ELW v. LBW

Discussion in 'ELCA/ELCIC' started by doulos_tou_kuriou, Mar 11, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. doulos_tou_kuriou

    doulos_tou_kuriou Located at the intersection of Forde and Giertz

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    For those of you who have had a chance to experience both our former hymnal (LBW) and our new one (ELW), what is your feelings on the two? Happy with the new hymnal? Disappointed? Sad? Angry? Useful? How about an opportunity to voice your preference between the two.
    *please also provide reasoning for any opinion given

    Peace be with You
     
  2. D.W.Washburn

    D.W.Washburn The Artist Formerly Known as RegularGuy

    Messages:
    4,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    ELW has its good points. I'm still getting used to it. I think it has too much stuff. I would prefer fewer settings that could be played straight through.

    LBW was played out.
     
  3. IowaLutheran

    IowaLutheran Veteran

    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    36
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    I like the variety in ELW. From 1978 to around 2000, I belonged to churches that sang "This is the Feast" from LBW ad nauseum. We finally incorporated stuff from With One Voice, and then the Renewing Worship materials as it came out in the pre-ELW era. So, change/more variety was desperately needed IMHO. Some of the settings in ELW are not to my taste, but that is why the variety is there - to allow more freedom for the congregation to find what suits its style and abilities.

    I like the daily lectionary in the ELW that goes along with the Sunday lectionary.

    I like the evening prayer in ELW, which we have been using during our Wednesday Lenten services.

    I don't like ELW's use of the words "became truly human" instead of "became man" in the Nicene Creed. I don't have a problem with the change of some language to make it gender neutral, but why change a 1700 year old creed?
     
  4. BabyLutheran

    BabyLutheran God Chose Me

    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes Received:
    14
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    It is confusing that the hymns and the liturgies in the front have the same page numbers in some cases. It really confuses my daughter when they say page 110, and she turns to hymn 110. lol
     
  5. RevCowboy

    RevCowboy Lutheran Pastor in small town Alberta

    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    That's something that all Lutheran hymnals have had a problem with. Even when I was kid who had been going to church every Sunday for years still made that mistake. You just have to listen carefully or read carefully and know that "Page (insert number)" is the front. "Hymn (insert number)" is back.
     
  6. RevCowboy

    RevCowboy Lutheran Pastor in small town Alberta

    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    I have been using since the fall of 2006. I have settled into using it pretty well. I really like it.

    I wish my congregation would branch out from just using the old LBW settings, but like any congregation the move slowly.

    My only criticism would be the 40% of the hymns have only a melody line printed. I like to sing parts and I can read music. Not every hymn has parts to sing, but many of the hymns in the ELW do yet they are not printed.
     
  7. RevCowboy

    RevCowboy Lutheran Pastor in small town Alberta

    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    Because "truly human" expresses the meaning of the creed better. The Nicene creed was written in response to early church heresies. Next time you read the creed, say the opposite after each line and you will know what the heresy is;)

    The problem is "became woman" could be opposite of "became man", whereas, "became truly human" has the opposite of "only seemed human" which was a response to docetism.
     
  8. Willy

    Willy Senior Member

    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Protestant
    very good response
     
  9. doulos_tou_kuriou

    doulos_tou_kuriou Located at the intersection of Forde and Giertz

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    Yeah, I really think the LCMS's new hymnal "Lutheran Service Book" (LSB) finally solved this problem for hymn/page numbering.
     
  10. doulos_tou_kuriou

    doulos_tou_kuriou Located at the intersection of Forde and Giertz

    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    3
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    My understanding is that was done because many of the harmonies and settings to these hymns were never ment to be sung. But I do understand your complaint, my fiance shares the exact issue with me (especially because she comes froma church where everyone sings parts all the time).
     
  11. Bartolomeo

    Bartolomeo New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    UnitedChurchOfChrist
    Excellent topic, Doulos.

    I believe that the ELW is best understood based on its differences in four key areas:
    • Changes in the selection of hymns
    • Changes to the text of hymns
    • Additional settings of the liturgy, including new liturgies
    • Reorganization including the release of new resources
    Somewhere I have a link to the list of hymns present in WOV/LBW that were not included in ELW. Other than the notable and politically motivated removal of "Onward, Christian Soldiers" and one other hymns of militaristic metaphor the name of which escapes me at the moment, most of what's missing is hymns that were never popular. Many of the 15th and 16th century chorales that were added to LBW in an attempt at a renaissance of this sort of singing were taken back out, and some of the more ephemeral pieces of new hymnody from WOV are missing.

    New material is a combination of ecumenically significant hymns common in other faith traditions, newer Lutheran hymns, multicultural material, and some of the more popular pianistic "praise chorus" type stuff.

    The textual changes are generally mild compared to what has happened to most other denominational hymnals. There has been a concerted effort to excise any military metaphors, c.f. "Lift High the Cross" among others. The changes towards gender neutrality are mild.

    Some of the new settings are worthwhile, some not. Setting ten sets the familiar texts of the liturgy to common hymn tunes and is intended to cover the situation where only a (e.g.) Methodist organist is available. The pairings are, in my opinion, just awful, and ruin the tunes for other uses as well as making a mockery of the liturgy. Sadly, many congregations actually like this setting. There are two new organistic settings, setting one by Mummert, Pavlechko, and Farlee; and setting nine. Both of these are solid updates to the somewhat dated harmony of the familiar LBW setting two.

    The new companion resources are a mixed bag. The accompaniment edition of the ELW is a disappointment, with fine print and an awkward size and layout. Recent printings have split this into two volumes which helps only slightly. There are alternate accompaniments for both piano and organ in development. Four of each have been published. Though expensive, these are helpful for any keyboard musician who likes to vary introductions and accompaniments. The alternate accompaniments are all newly composed by a broad range of the usual ELCA composers.

    For the congregational hymnal that is the core of the series, ELW is a huge improvement. The LBW/WOV combination was stale and juggling the two books a distraction. With the exceptions I've noted, the hymns that were dropped will not be missed, and a good deal of the new material is helpful.
     
  12. tisamy

    tisamy Junior Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Christian
    I just recently started going back to church again after having to work Sundays for what seems forever. I grew up with the LBW and am used to those liturgies. The church in my town just started using the With One Voice / blue book a few weeks before I started attending services there. I have trouble singing the liturgy from the WOV / blue book. Growing up our congregation sang from the LBW in harmony, we had a cantor, etc. I like the music from the LBW much better. It's better suited to my voice, I find the music richer and more complex. It seems to have more depth. Maybe it's just that it's burned into my memory.
    On Pentecost we go back to the LBW and I'm really looking forward to it.
    I'm not familiar with the ELW.
     
    D.W.Washburn likes this.
  13. D.W.Washburn

    D.W.Washburn The Artist Formerly Known as RegularGuy

    Messages:
    4,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Lutheran
  14. RedneckLutheran

    RedneckLutheran I'm so confused...

    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Anglican
    I grew up with the LBW...I just recently bought a ELW (my Church doesn't use it)...I got the ELW because it seemed more like a BCP (Book of Common Prayer) that I loved so much when I was Episcopalian/Anglican (I've been both...yes there is a difference)...I like the ELW that it is easier for me to do morning prayer with, but as a worship book I still like the LBW better...it's not quite so "touchy feely" as ELW...
     
  15. BabyLutheran

    BabyLutheran God Chose Me

    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes Received:
    14
    Faith:
    Lutheran
    Our organist always plays in a different key than the hymns are written, and my wife is driven crazy by it since she has perfect pitch.
     
  16. RedneckLutheran

    RedneckLutheran I'm so confused...

    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Anglican
    ah...perfect pitch...the "440 line to GOD"...that's what we used to call it in the Music department at SFA...I could tell you STORIES about folks with perfect pitch...
     
  17. Willy

    Willy Senior Member

    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Protestant
    I like the ELW for its expansion of the kinds of songs that we can sing. Cutting out the harmonies probably wasn't a good idea. The pages are too thin and will deteriorate easily. I like the variety of liturgies. We use 4,6, and 8. All are good. My wife is not fond of the fact that the prayers (offertory prayer, e.g.) are not printed in the book. I don't miss the LBW. It had grown weary. And the hymnody was so heavily tilted toward Western European 16th-17th century stuff. I'm grateful for the variety of hymnody.
     
  18. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    4,590
    Likes Received:
    87
    Faith:
    Lutheran

    Howdy. Hope you don't mind a question from an"outsider" (AALC).

    Do your congregations chant the Psalms? If so, do you like the chants that are provided in ELW?

     
  19. Willy

    Willy Senior Member

    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Protestant
    There are psalm tones that I like that come out of the This Far by Faith hymn book. I tired of the ones from the LBW, and I'm not sure if we have used many from the ELW. We use a lot of the ones from Gather. I like these better, even though some of them are hard for cantors and pianists to read.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.