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Ellen White vs. the Bible--A Test Case--Married Sexual Practice

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by tall73, May 13, 2010.

  1. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    Fact is, these scriptures are commandments from the Lord. We should find a way to obey them rather than to allow another voice to make God's word seem void.
    1Cr 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
    1Cr 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.


    God's word is saying that the power of your body belongs to your mate, it's not yours to manipulate or control your mate's actions.

    It goes without saying that both mates should be in agreement with the frequency.

    The problem is when socalled "inspired teachings" tells a man or a woman how to control their mate's passions, to keep them from evil.

    Point: So, if there are writings telling the woman to withold sex to regulate the mans passions, I'd consider it as someones opinion. That advise seems contrary to God's word and His intent for marriage.

    I'd rather be found living according to and defending what God's word is commanding.

    feel me?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  2. TruthWave7

    TruthWave7 New Member

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    The women is not be a sex slave to a perverted man either, or on balance a man is not to deprive his wife of sex either.
     
  3. Cribstyl

    Cribstyl Veteran

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    As if we dont know the anything about who we marry.;)
    Sex slaves, pervert??? Before I respond prematurely, I am going to read some more of the writings on that subject.
    The bottom line to me will always be "what does God's word teach on the subject?

    thanks for your response
    CRIB
     
  4. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband

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    Stryder and truthwave, by all means start by answering the question posted to Lysimichas:

    Why would Ellen White allow James to publish and promote a book that puts her writings with a bunch of authorities that speak on the same topic if she didn't agree with those authorities?
     
  5. TruthWave7

    TruthWave7 New Member

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    My view of this issue: Its simply that EGW wrote what she thought at that time regarding male and female sexual guidelines according to the light she at that time, but it was her and Jame's opinion and was not necessarily a message that God directly gave her in a vision. This should not cause anyone to then call her a false prophet, because we know that not everything that the Bible writers and prophets of ancient times said, or wrote was inspired. For example: Daniel didn't understand all at once when he shown something in vision, but over time he gained understanding. David wrote many inspired sacred Psalms, but he also told his men to put Uriah to the front of the battle and then pull back so he would be killed. Does that mean that then everything that David wrote in the Psalms was not inspired? I don't think so! Peter, early on his apostolic ministry in the NT, cast out demons in Jesus' name, but then went onto deny the Lord, but does that mean that what he later wrote in the book of Peter is not inspired? The point that I'm making is that NONE of prophets in the Bible were or had perfect characters or perfect understanding, they made mistakes and sinned just all of us do, and sometimes that might say something that is wrong, or do something wrong, but that does not mean that everything that they have said verbally, or put into writing is not inspired. Jesus the God/Man is the only One that lived in such a manner that no one could find fault in Him. The proper way to view EGW's writings are to look at the bulk of her writings, books like the Desire of Ages, Steps to Christ, The Great Controversy, these other titles she wrote bear the hallmarks of divine inspiration.
     
  6. Sophia7

    Sophia7 Tall73's Wife Supporter

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    Your view of EGW's writings disagrees with her own view of her writings:

    The statement which you quote from "Testimony," No. 31, that "in these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. Are not the positions taken in my writings in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ? If not, point it out to me. {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}​
     
  7. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband

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    You know Truthwave, I think this take you just gave was an honest statement. And I know it was not easy for you. I have been where you are at.

    This advice by Ellen is just not something you can defend. So perhaps it was just her opinion. I held that view for a long time.

    However, that creates its own issues. What about all the people who take this advice as an imperative in their life and go against Paul's advice in I Cor 7? Are they not opening themselves up to needless temptation?

    And how do you start weeding out truth from opinion?
     
  8. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband

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    Some additional comments by Ellen White which state that pick and choose doesn't work:


    Many times in my experience I have been called upon to meet the attitude of a certain class who acknowledged that the testimonies were from God, but took the position that this matter and that matter were Sister White's opinion and judgment. This suits those who do not love reproof and correction, and who, if their ideas are crossed, have occasion to explain the difference between the human and the divine. {2MR 87.2}

    If the preconceived opinions or particular ideas of some are crossed in being reproved by testimonies, they have a burden at once to make plain their position to discriminate between the testimonies, defining what is Sister White's human judgment and what is the word of the Lord. Everything that sustains their cherished ideas is divine, and the testimonies to correct their errors are human--Sister White's opinions. They make of none effect the counsel of God by their tradition.--Ms 16, 1889, p. 1. ("The Discernment of Truth," circa Jan. 1889. 3SM p. 69.) {2MR 87.3}
    [FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT]And now, brethren, I entreat you not to interpose between me and the people, and turn away the light which God would have come to them. Do not by your criticisms take out all the force, all the point and power, from the Testimonies. Do not feel that you can dissect them to suit your own ideas, claiming that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom. If the Testimonies speak not according to the Word of God, reject them.--Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 691. {3SM 46.3}

    "God is either teaching His church, reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith, or He is not. This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work . . . bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God, or of the devil." [VOL. 4, P. 230.] {5T 671.2}


    Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. You know how the Lord has manifested Himself through the spirit of prophecy. Past, present, and future have passed before me. I have been shown faces that I had never seen, and years afterward I knew them when I saw them. I have been aroused from my sleep with a vivid sense of subjects previously presented to my mind; and I have written, at midnight, letters that have gone across the continent and, arriving at a crisis, have saved great disaster to the cause of God. This has been my work for many years. {5T 64.3}
     
  9. TruthWave7

    TruthWave7 New Member

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    The truly inspired writings were true and have stood the test of time. How can you say that the Desire of Ages or Steps to Christ are not books inspired by the Holy Spirit, and bear the trademark of the divine? EGW was shown those things in visions many times when she didn't know how to describe some points in the great controversy between Christ and Satan. Look at the BIG picture.
     
  10. TruthWave7

    TruthWave7 New Member

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    They simply show that when people don't like the truths that prophets speak, they are often derided and rejected as being false prophets. What else is new? Prophets have been persecuted for thousands of years. EGW was no different. Do you deny that all prophets since the time of Enoch to Noah, to Jeremiah, to John Baptist have at times said, or wrote things that were their opinion based simply on their best judgement, and at other times were indeed given visions and direct messages from God?
     
  11. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    That wasn't an answer to the question. You keep saying it's not right to withhold sex from your mate, which I agree too, in regards to using that as an way to manipulate or punish your mate. We're not talking about that though. I asked, what if the husband wants sex from his wife 3x a day every day of the week. If the wife refuses him, is she sinning?

    Sr White's advice doesn't extend to those maintaining a healthy sexual relationship within the confines of their marriage. It goes to those who are abusing this aspect of intimacy. Ever consider that some individuals might try to use that scripture against their spouse to force them to be intemperate with how often they have sex?
     
  12. listed

    listed are you?

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    It is interesting you bring up a cause like punishing. Then go to extremes. This does not make any sense. A guy has to sleep sometime. Normally a guy works somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 hours a week. Just does not compute unless you are talking about the wealthy, retired or maybe an unobligated youngster with all their desires met. I doubt that many retired folks have that kind of energy.
     
  13. listed

    listed are you?

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    Nearly (for posibilities) everything EGW said is preceeded with God showed me or something similar. Is this one such stance where this did not occur?
     
  14. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband

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    Stryder, you never answered the question given to you and Truthwave and Lysimichas.

    Why would Ellen White allow James to publish and promote a book that puts her writings with a bunch of authorities that speak on the same topic if she didn't agree with those authorities?

    If you had answered it you would have seen that your comments here make no sense.

    James and Ellen published a book that showed what their view of excess was and it was not three times a day or even once a day, or even three to four times per week.
     
  15. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband

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    Stryder, what percentage of the married population do you think fell into your notion of excess in Ellen White's day? How many were having sex three times per day or so?
     
  16. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband

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    But Truthwave, that is what you are doing. You reject this teaching because you don't think it is defensible, or right, or true in your opinion.

    But other points, IF YOU AGREE WITH THEM, are true.

    You have made yourself the arbiter of what is true in Ellen White's writings. And that is exactly what she said not to do.
     
  17. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    How do you know what people were and weren't doing lol. Nothing new under the sun. My point is that you can do everything, even sex with your wife, to excess. You say don't deny your husband cause the bible says so. I asked would the wife be sinning if her husband wanted it 3x a day and she said no.

    If you weren't trying to see something wrong with this, then you'd be able to grasp the principle in her words the way I have. It's about over indulgence. Her terminology worked for her, in her day, to her peers. She said it the way she saw fit to convey a message that needed to be heard.
     
  18. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    This isn't an answer to the question either. And it's not nearly as extreme as you may think.
     
  19. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    You'll have to point me to the page where you quote what she says the average should be. I bailed out of this thread early in its inception so I probably missed it.
     
  20. TruthWave7

    TruthWave7 New Member

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    Not so. What I'm doing is simply based on the fact that prophets are human beings they are not little gods, and because of that fact, it doesn't mean that everything that they said verbally or put into writings over the span of their earthly lives is 100% inspired by God. Commonsense! The test that you are proposing is would disqualify the bible prophets in the OT and NT. And yet, you want to apply that standard to EGW? What gives? Do you not believe, that a prophet could verbalize or write something that may simply be that prophet's opinion at the time, and not necessarily be inspired by God, but simply based on their view of the subject in question?
     
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