Elana Kagan for Supreme Court

Autumnleaf

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Please tell me this is GROSS SARCASM...it really sounds like it lol

No, I have 8 children. I am not worried about this judge one bit. Ronald Reagan nominated a female justice who came highly recommended and she was the opposite of what he thought she would be. It could happen to Obama too. You never know how people will be when they are unconstrained until it happens. If we believe God is in control then we have faith. If we don't then its up to us and since we have very little control its easy to think all is lost.

YouTube - Petra - Whole World
 
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nathanlandon1

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No, I have 8 children. I am not worried about this judge one bit. Ronald Reagan nominated a female justice who came highly recommended and she was the opposite of what he thought she would be. It could happen to Obama too. You never know how people will be when they are unconstrained until it happens. If we believe God is in control then we have faith. If we don't then its up to us and since we have very little control its easy to think all is lost.

YouTube - Petra - Whole World

I am not talking about the justice choice specifically, but the WHOLE STATE OF THE WORLD. And I don't think all is lost, I am upset because the majority of people think all is lost. This has already been predicted/prophecied about - all of this. So, I am not surprised at the evil going on. I am surprised by how many people turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING.

You think the Health Care bill will take care of us? You get $5000 of coverage, but your yearly cost is $19,000.

If I lose my job, who exactly will take care of the food? We are $12,000,000,000,000+ in debt. States are going bankrupt. God provides, yes, but we aren't supposed to tempt him. Having kids out of our own selfish wants without considering their future is not what I want to do.

I have faith, but I also know that having more kids will not solve things. Moreover, I also know the time we are in, and having a child because I want to is not a good enough reason to bring someone I love into a world which I know needs drastic work.

When I see things roll uphill instead of downhill, then I will personally consider children. But, with the things happening today, coupled with what children are learning in school, I don't see myself having children for a while. God will provide for us, that is true. But, it would be irresponsible for me (knowing all that I know) to bring a life into this world.

Now, having said all of that, if it is my Father's will to have a child I cannot stop it. So, if it is for me I will have a child. But, considering I am a celebrate young male looking for a spiritually equal wife (not girlfriend or hook-up buddy,) having kids may be greatly delayed on that basis alone.

I am definitely not saying I don't want a child - I already love it. This is why I am making this decision. Each one of us were sent by our Father at specific times for specific reasons. You were born when you were born and not a day sooner/later because of a specific reason - an executive decision by God. As much of a hand as He allows me to have, I will make that decision for my Child. I am not knocking anyone with children currently, but I personally will not have kids now.
 
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Autumnleaf

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I am not talking about the justice choice specifically, but the WHOLE STATE OF THE WORLD. And I don't think all is lost, I am upset because the majority of people think all is lost. This has already been predicted/prophecied about - all of this. So, I am not surprised at the evil going on. I am surprised by how many people turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING.

You think the Health Care bill will take care of us? You get $5000 of coverage, but your yearly cost is $19,000.

If I lose my job, who exactly will take care of the food? We are $12,000,000,000,000+ in debt. States are going bankrupt. God provides, yes, but we aren't supposed to tempt him. Having kids out of our own selfish wants without considering their future is not what I want to do.

I have faith, but I also know that having more kids will not solve things. Moreover, I also know the time we are in, and having a child because I want to is not a good enough reason to bring someone I love into a world which I know needs drastic work.

When I see things roll uphill instead of downhill, then I will personally consider children. But, with the things happening today, coupled with what children are learning in school, I don't see myself having children for a while. God will provide for us, that is true. But, it would be irresponsible for me (knowing all that I know) to bring a life into this world.

Now, having said all of that, if it is my Father's will to have a child I cannot stop it. So, if it is for me I will have a child. But, considering I am a celebrate young male looking for a spiritually equal wife (not girlfriend or hook-up buddy,) having kids may be greatly delayed on that basis alone.

I am definitely not saying I don't want a child - I already love it. This is why I am making this decision. Each one of us were sent by our Father at specific times for specific reasons. You were born when you were born and not a day sooner/later because of a specific reason - an executive decision by God. As much of a hand as He allows me to have, I will make that decision for my Child. I am not knocking anyone with children currently, but I personally will not have kids now.

Most people don't care about the state of the world. Why should they? They care more about Lost and American Idol. That is what they talk about with friends so they better keep track of it to stay in the loop. 'As for government, that is for elected people to deal with. If they do a bad job we can vote them out the next time around.'

The health care bill? Its going to be a mess and we'll probably end up with a single payer system like Canada has, which would be a good thing.

The government will provide food in the form of food stamps or if they have to bread lines because they don't want a revolution. Governments don't fare well when those happen. The US has awesome farms. Don't worry about food unless you live away from the farms. If you lose your job there is friends and family and welfare checks.

Not having children is selfish. Marriage was made to glorify God by having children and teaching them to glorify God. By refusing to have children you are stunting what marriage is really about. It is letting fear get the best of faith. Even in Africa and South America poor people know such things. They manage fine with children unless their governments deliberately starve the people, which is not uncommon in Africa.

Its about control. I wake up and pray for me to be an instrument of God's will and for me to be okay with whatever God's will is. Then I do my best that day to do what I can to be there for others. For a large part of my married life having children was something we left to God and we were blessed for it. God does provide. He won't always calm all your fears so you understand why everything around you seems to be a mess, but he will be there for you if you have faith. Let God fight your battles. You might be surprised at how well he does by you. If you assume responsibility for a decision, then you assume the responsibility for the consequences of that decision.

Don't worry. You will be less stressed and you will live longer.
 
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nathanlandon1

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Most people don't care about the state of the world. Why should they? They care more about Lost and American Idol. That is what they talk about with friends so they better keep track of it to stay in the loop. 'As for government, that is for elected people to deal with. If they do a bad job we can vote them out the next time around.'

The health care bill? Its going to be a mess and we'll probably end up with a single payer system like Canada has, which would be a good thing.

The government will provide food in the form of food stamps or if they have to bread lines because they don't want a revolution. Governments don't fare well when those happen. The US has awesome farms. Don't worry about food unless you live away from the farms. If you lose your job there is friends and family and welfare checks.

Not having children is selfish. Marriage was made to glorify God by having children and teaching them to glorify God. By refusing to have children you are stunting what marriage is really about. It is letting fear get the best of faith. Even in Africa and South America poor people know such things. They manage fine with children unless their governments deliberately starve the people, which is not uncommon in Africa.

Its about control. I wake up and pray for me to be an instrument of God's will and for me to be okay with whatever God's will is. Then I do my best that day to do what I can to be there for others. For a large part of my married life having children was something we left to God and we were blessed for it. God does provide. He won't always calm all your fears so you understand why everything around you seems to be a mess, but he will be there for you if you have faith. Let God fight your battles. You might be surprised at how well he does by you. If you assume responsibility for a decision, then you assume the responsibility for the consequences of that decision.

Don't worry. You will be less stressed and you will live longer.


Well, we agree to disagree. I have asked my Father for things like love (for Him) and faith - and he has given it to me. I ask him for a wife that loves Him and me, as well as children. He has not given it to me yet, nor has he put it on me to go for it. I am not worried about the mess - like I said, it is in the bible the evil that is happening now. And, no it is not selfish not to bring kids into this world - especially if you are not making the decision permanent. I am being considerate. When I bring a kid into the world they have to live here too - it is not just me having a child and raising it. I am not saying I never want to have kids, I mean right now is not the suitable time to procreate. There is a lot of work to be done...
 
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Crusader05

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So, Elena Kagan. Anyone have any further thoughts on the latest nominee for the SCOTUS?

I was reading about her experiences as dean of Harvard Law, it looks like she made a name for herself by bridging the ideological divide among the faculty.
 
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Polycarp1

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So, Elena Kagan. Anyone have any further thoughts on the latest nominee for the SCOTUS?

I was reading about her experiences as dean of Harvard Law, it looks like she made a name for herself by bridging the ideological divide among the faculty.

Say what you like about Obama, he is (a) very interested in constitutional law -- he used to teach it; (b) a student of history; and (c) usually a fairly shrewd judge of character.

I mentioned Taft and Warren up above as outstanding Chief Justices with little or no pre-SCOTUS judicial experience. To them I'd like to add Charles Evans Hughes and William Brennan, for a new group that crosses ideological bridges and experience. What they were was consensus builders, people who could reach out to their colleagues, some of whom were pretty much prima donnas (Scalia is far from the first justice to be a legend in his own mind) and build findings that would hold popular support (both among the justices and among the public reading them). Their view is that it was better to persuade five or six justices to take a baby step in the right direction and to explain it simply so the public would back it, than to write a thundering dissent standing on absolute principles of little importance to anyone outside law schools that has all the usefulness of a small child stamping his feet and saying, "But you guys are going the wrong way!" The active bulding of consensus is something that is mostly missing from the Roberts court. Nominating a moderate who is an active consensus builder to a vacant justice seat may be the most brilliant thing Obama has done so far.
 
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Texan40

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The only quality I care about in a SCOTUS judge is a desire to defend the people with the Constitution. The SCOTUS is the last and only defense against tyranny from the legislative and executive bodies. If she is indeed interested in Constitutional law and not judicial activism then that's all I need to know.
 
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Maren

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A lot of folks on the left are afraid of her because of a few comments and her lack of any real judicial record.

Either way, I expect folks on the right will latch on to her having never been a judge and to the fact that she's clearly a lesbian.

I for one hope she's confirmed. I like the Supreme Court as an institution so I don't really get involved in political battles over it as long as the justices are qualified and not blatantly disregarding law (more of a turn of the 20th century thing).

I'm wondering what you are basing your claim that she is "clearly a lesbian" on? I've seen claims from both sides, and it seems there is more evidence that she is straight, but no hard evidence that she is or she isn't. Most of the "evidence" that she is a lesbian seems to be merely that she is a woman with short hair who is not in a relationship but has a successful career.
 
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Maren

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The only quality I care about in a SCOTUS judge is a desire to defend the people with the Constitution. The SCOTUS is the last and only defense against tyranny from the legislative and executive bodies. If she is indeed interested in Constitutional law and not judicial activism then that's all I need to know.

I really hate the term "judicial activism". Rather than being a meaningful term, it seems to be used solely to mean "decision I personally disagree with". Kind of how "socialist" means person that a conservative disagrees with or "facist" is a person a liberal disagrees with.
 
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Autumnleaf

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I really hate the term "judicial activism". Rather than being a meaningful term, it seems to be used solely to mean "decision I personally disagree with". Kind of how "socialist" means person that a conservative disagrees with or "facist" is a person a liberal disagrees with.

Judicial activism is when judges make up rulings which are not supported by laws or the Constitution. Some people have a problem with that.
 
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Autumnleaf

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I understand that is what people claim -- those claims seldom are supported by the actual facts.

Name an example of a situation someone called judicial activism and the corresponding law/part of the Constitution where the ruling was supported.

I think judicial activism is a pretty well defined and accepted form of behavior among many people. A prime example is abortion. For a body charged with Constitutional law to say abortion is defended by the Constitution is asinine because its just not there. For them to say it has to do with privacy is just plain silly. You can't go for a walk these days without cameras taking your picture but there is supposedly a Constitutional right to privacy that allows abortions to be legal? Regardless of whether or not you agree with abortion, its just bad judgement the way they went about it.
 
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Maren

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Name an example of a situation someone called judicial activism and the corresponding law/part of the Constitution where the ruling was supported.

I think judicial activism is a pretty well defined and accepted form of behavior among many people. A prime example is abortion. For a body charged with Constitutional law to say abortion is defended by the Constitution is asinine because its just not there. For them to say it has to do with privacy is just plain silly. You can't go for a walk these days without cameras taking your picture but there is supposedly a Constitutional right to privacy that allows abortions to be legal? Regardless of whether or not you agree with abortion, its just bad judgement the way they went about it.

But as I pointed out in my other post, socialism and facism have very clearly defined meanings, yet politically the two words are close to meaningless anymore as they apply to American politics. They've become nothing more than emotionally charged rhetoric designed to rile up the public and nothing more.

And that is much the way "judicial activism" is -- for your example you had to go back to a decision made almost 40 years ago to find a real case of judicial activism.

But for a good example of something being called judicial activism that isn't, there is the recent case about the National Day of Prayer. Instead, it is called "judicial activism" to rile up the masses, even while most people don't even understand the ruling. First, the judge did not prohibit the President from declaring a National Day of Prayer -- even if her ruling stands Presidents can still make these declarations.

Instead, she very narrowly crafted her ruling, showed how the Constitution and previous courts interpreted similar things, and only ruled that the law that requires the President to declare a National Day of Prayer to be unconstitutional. The brief is well reasoned and she supports her decision well -- you can read the full decision here.

Now, I understand that some people will disagree with the decision but disagreement is not "judicial activism" -- and that is the problem with the term, as I previously stated, "judicial activism" as a term has become meaningless because it is used solely to mean a decision that I disagree with.
 
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Polycarp1

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But as I pointed out in my other post, socialism and facism have very clearly defined meanings, yet politically the two words are close to meaningless anymore as they apply to American politics. They've become nothing more than emotionally charged rhetoric designed to rile up the public and nothing more.

And that is much the way "judicial activism" is -- for your example you had to go back to a decision made almost 40 years ago to find a real case of judicial activism.

But for a good example of something being called judicial activism that isn't, there is the recent case about the National Day of Prayer. Instead, it is called "judicial activism" to rile up the masses, even while most people don't even understand the ruling. First, the judge did not prohibit the President from declaring a National Day of Prayer -- even if her ruling stands Presidents can still make these declarations.

Instead, she very narrowly crafted her ruling, showed how the Constitution and previous courts interpreted similar things, and only ruled that the law that requires the President to declare a National Day of Prayer to be unconstitutional. The brief is well reasoned and she supports her decision well -- you can read the full decision here.

Now, I understand that some people will disagree with the decision but disagreement is not "judicial activism" -- and that is the problem with the term, as I previously stated, "judicial activism" as a term has become meaningless because it is used solely to mean a decision that I disagree with.

Nicely said. In fact, one point I would differ with you on is this: "...and only ruled that the law that requires the President to declare a National Day of Prayer to be unconstitutional." Actually, I would word it "...and only ruled that the specific section of the law that requires the President...".

That to me is the key point. Congress cannot require anybody to do anything religious -- including the President. They can legally adopt resolutions acknowledging this country's dependence on Almighty God, or the good work of Catholic Charities or the SBC's outreach programs for people struck by disaster, or whatever. But they cannot require that anybody do anything that is a religious act.

The President can proclaim a National Day of Prayer. In over 60 years of life, most of them as a student of American history and law, I've never seen or heard of a President who wouldn't. But Congress cannot make him do it -- that violates the Establishment Clause.

------

While we're on the subject, a good example of judicial self-restraint that's held up by the right as 'judicial activism' is the Goodridge decision requiring gay marriage in Massachusetts. Not to start a morality-of-gay-marriage debate here -- and if anyone wants one, go to CP&E or E&M where the board rules require they be conducted -- but what happened is this:

1. Massachusetts law contemplated only one man/one woman marriages.

2. Massachusetts' state constitution included an equal protection clause that specifically prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

3. Goodridge brought suit to get the marriage law overturned because it did not permit gay marriages.

4. The court took a look at the arguments and properly found that the statute conflicted with the constitutional provision. In such a case, the courts are obliged to overturn the statute as being uncontitutional.

5. Instead of doing that, they wrote a ruling stating that was what they were obliged to do, and then stayed it for six months, to give the Legislature time to bring the two into accord. They could amend the constitution to abolish the sexual orientation provision, to say it didn't include gay marriages, or to define marriage. They could amend the statute to permit gay marriages. Or something else that doesn't occur to me right at the moment. (Note that a constitutional amendment could not become active within six months -- but if the legislature had chosen that route by starting the amendment process, no doubt the stay would have been extended.)

The key point is that they didn't "declare gay marriages legal" by judicial fiat -- they said that the law prohibiting them fell afoul of the state constitution, and it was the legislature's job to fix the problem one way or the other.

The legislature of course chose to legalize gay marriages, as we all know. But note that the judges did their job and then let the legislature make the call how to fix it. That's judicial self-restraint, not judicial activism.

Judicial activism is not ruling against what I think ought to be done. It's judge-made obligations on people not supported by the text, implications, or precedent of the law.
 
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Maren

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Nicely said. In fact, one point I would differ with you on is this: "...and only ruled that the law that requires the President to declare a National Day of Prayer to be unconstitutional." Actually, I would word it "...and only ruled that the specific section of the law that requires the President...".

That to me is the key point. Congress cannot require anybody to do anything religious -- including the President. They can legally adopt resolutions acknowledging this country's dependence on Almighty God, or the good work of Catholic Charities or the SBC's outreach programs for people struck by disaster, or whatever. But they cannot require that anybody do anything that is a religious act.

The President can proclaim a National Day of Prayer. In over 60 years of life, most of them as a student of American history and law, I've never seen or heard of a President who wouldn't. But Congress cannot make him do it -- that violates the Establishment Clause.

------

While we're on the subject, a good example of judicial self-restraint that's held up by the right as 'judicial activism' is the Goodridge decision requiring gay marriage in Massachusetts. Not to start a morality-of-gay-marriage debate here -- and if anyone wants one, go to CP&E or E&M where the board rules require they be conducted -- but what happened is this:

1. Massachusetts law contemplated only one man/one woman marriages.

2. Massachusetts' state constitution included an equal protection clause that specifically prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

3. Goodridge brought suit to get the marriage law overturned because it did not permit gay marriages.

4. The court took a look at the arguments and properly found that the statute conflicted with the constitutional provision. In such a case, the courts are obliged to overturn the statute as being uncontitutional.

5. Instead of doing that, they wrote a ruling stating that was what they were obliged to do, and then stayed it for six months, to give the Legislature time to bring the two into accord. They could amend the constitution to abolish the sexual orientation provision, to say it didn't include gay marriages, or to define marriage. They could amend the statute to permit gay marriages. Or something else that doesn't occur to me right at the moment. (Note that a constitutional amendment could not become active within six months -- but if the legislature had chosen that route by starting the amendment process, no doubt the stay would have been extended.)

The key point is that they didn't "declare gay marriages legal" by judicial fiat -- they said that the law prohibiting them fell afoul of the state constitution, and it was the legislature's job to fix the problem one way or the other.

The legislature of course chose to legalize gay marriages, as we all know. But note that the judges did their job and then let the legislature make the call how to fix it. That's judicial self-restraint, not judicial activism.

Judicial activism is not ruling against what I think ought to be done. It's judge-made obligations on people not supported by the text, implications, or precedent of the law.

Thanks for the correction. That is a problem of trying to quickly summarize a well crafted judge's ruling. While there are some other examples I believe actually are judicial activism; most of the time the term is used it is similar to the above examples, the court simply made a controversial yet Constitutionally sound decision.
 
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Kagan is getting criticized from the right for being too liberal, and from the extreme left as too conservative. She sounds to me like she will be a good nominee.

I call "Gray" Fallacy.

The problem we liberals/progressives have with Kagan is that she's a corporatist centrist (who offers far too much deference to executive power) replacing a clear liberal.

And she has no record that indicates a one-for-one replacement with Stevens.
 
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Texan40

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Nicely said. In fact, one point I would differ with you on is this: "...and only ruled that the law that requires the President to declare a National Day of Prayer to be unconstitutional." Actually, I would word it "...and only ruled that the specific section of the law that requires the President...".

That to me is the key point. Congress cannot require anybody to do anything religious -- including the President. They can legally adopt resolutions acknowledging this country's dependence on Almighty God, or the good work of Catholic Charities or the SBC's outreach programs for people struck by disaster, or whatever. But they cannot require that anybody do anything that is a religious act.

The President can proclaim a National Day of Prayer. In over 60 years of life, most of them as a student of American history and law, I've never seen or heard of a President who wouldn't. But Congress cannot make him do it -- that violates the Establishment Clause.

------

While we're on the subject, a good example of judicial self-restraint that's held up by the right as 'judicial activism' is the Goodridge decision requiring gay marriage in Massachusetts. Not to start a morality-of-gay-marriage debate here -- and if anyone wants one, go to CP&E or E&M where the board rules require they be conducted -- but what happened is this:

1. Massachusetts law contemplated only one man/one woman marriages.

2. Massachusetts' state constitution included an equal protection clause that specifically prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

3. Goodridge brought suit to get the marriage law overturned because it did not permit gay marriages.

4. The court took a look at the arguments and properly found that the statute conflicted with the constitutional provision. In such a case, the courts are obliged to overturn the statute as being uncontitutional.

5. Instead of doing that, they wrote a ruling stating that was what they were obliged to do, and then stayed it for six months, to give the Legislature time to bring the two into accord. They could amend the constitution to abolish the sexual orientation provision, to say it didn't include gay marriages, or to define marriage. They could amend the statute to permit gay marriages. Or something else that doesn't occur to me right at the moment. (Note that a constitutional amendment could not become active within six months -- but if the legislature had chosen that route by starting the amendment process, no doubt the stay would have been extended.)

The key point is that they didn't "declare gay marriages legal" by judicial fiat -- they said that the law prohibiting them fell afoul of the state constitution, and it was the legislature's job to fix the problem one way or the other.

The legislature of course chose to legalize gay marriages, as we all know. But note that the judges did their job and then let the legislature make the call how to fix it. That's judicial self-restraint, not judicial activism.

Judicial activism is not ruling against what I think ought to be done. It's judge-made obligations on people not supported by the text, implications, or precedent of the law.

This is contrasted to California's Prop 22 action. A clear 61% voted to change the California constitution to add that only a man and woman union will be recognized as "marriage." It used political rhetoric and "civil-rights" sentiment in order to justify its use of usurping the political process. Clearly judicial activism, especially compared to the way things happened in Mass.
 
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Maren

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This is contrasted to California's Prop 22 action. A clear 61% voted to change the California constitution to add that only a man and woman union will be recognized as "marriage." It used political rhetoric and "civil-rights" sentiment in order to justify its use of usurping the political process. Clearly judicial activism, especially compared to the way things happened in Mass.

Sorry, Prop. 22 was not a constitutional amendment, instead it added Section 308.5 of the Family Code. Since it was not a Constitutional amendment, it did not matter how many people voted for it, it could be struck down. Further, the California Constitution, like the Massachusetts Constitution, provides strong equal protection language. It was not judicial activism despite your disagreement with the decision. It is also worth noting that Prop. 8, which was an amendment to the California Constitution, was upheld by the same Supreme Court.

And it was not "usurping the political process". If 99% of a state's citizens voted in a referendum to pass a law to reintroduce slavery, the law would also be struck down as unconstitutional. Much of the role of the Constitution is to protect the minority from the majority voting their rights away.
 
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I'm wondering what you are basing your claim that she is "clearly a lesbian" on? I've seen claims from both sides, and it seems there is more evidence that she is straight, but no hard evidence that she is or she isn't. Most of the "evidence" that she is a lesbian seems to be merely that she is a woman with short hair who is not in a relationship but has a successful career.

"woman with short hair" is a pretty nice dressing up of "butch"
 
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