Eating Animals/Consuming Animal Products?

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Hi all. I'm new to the forum so I hope this is the right place to put this.

This is something that has been on my mind lately and I am wondering how other Christians feel about this.

Traditionally it seems Christians consider consuming animal products perfectly acceptable; however my question is even though it is "acceptable" isn't it still something that should be avoided if possible? (I should note that I am including dairy/eggs in this discussion b/c of the conditions that these animals are often kept under i.e. small enclosures and unsanitary. However I don't see any problem with consuming dairy/egg from an animal that is well maintained).

It is my understanding this acceptance comes from God telling Adam that man has dominion over the animals and then also from Peter revealing the dream that eating any animal acceptable.

However it is my understanding that animals did not consume each other (literally or otherwise) until the first sin and the corruption of the physical world. After this time animals (including man) began to kill and eat other animals to survive.

So I would tend to conclude that killing animals to survive and the necessity of animals suffering for our comfort a cycle of a corrupted system. To go further, as satan is the "god" of this world, all our physical systems are corrupted and generally under under the realm of satan (although I'm sure this point is debatable among varying theologies).

In Revelation "The lion lays side by side with the lamb" denoting an end to corrupt physical systems and cycles.

So shouldn't that be something that should be strived for, and shouldn't veganism be more desirable than eating animals? Even though we are absolved of something doing something awful, shouldn't we still strive to avoid it, as it seems to me, to be part of a demonic and corrupt system?
 
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For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

As Christians we need to be careful that we do not become detracted. We need to focus our minds on hearts on the above points.


I think there is a real difference between that scripture and the point I am making.
 
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ephraimanesti

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Hi all. I'm new to the forum so I hope this is the right place to put this.

This is something that has been on my mind lately and I am wondering how other Christians feel about this.

Traditionally it seems Christians consider consuming animal products perfectly acceptable; however my question is even though it is "acceptable" isn't it still something that should be avoided if possible? (I should note that I am including dairy/eggs in this discussion b/c of the conditions that these animals are often kept under i.e. small enclosures and unsanitary. However I don't see any problem with consuming dairy/egg from an animal that is well maintained).

It is my understanding this acceptance comes from God telling Adam that man has dominion over the animals and then also from Peter revealing the dream that eating any animal acceptable.

However it is my understanding that animals did not consume each other (literally or otherwise) until the first sin and the corruption of the physical world. After this time animals (including man) began to kill and eat other animals to survive.

So I would tend to conclude that killing animals to survive and the necessity of animals suffering for our comfort a cycle of a corrupted system. To go further, as satan is the "god" of this world, all our physical systems are corrupted and generally under under the realm of satan (although I'm sure this point is debatable among varying theologies).

In Revelation "The lion lays side by side with the lamb" denoting an end to corrupt physical systems and cycles.

So shouldn't that be something that should be strived for, and shouldn't veganism be more desirable than eating animals? Even though we are absolved of something doing something awful, shouldn't we still strive to avoid it, as it seems to me, to be part of a demonic and corrupt system?
MY FRIEND,

It was really inconsiderate of you to introduce this topic at this particular time and ruin my breakfast!


In any event, yes this is a very valid issue and has been argued back and forth for the past 2000 years. i have been struggling with it of and on and have not been able to come to any lasting conclusions. Had i to make a firm decision at this particular point in time, i would agree with you.

In all honesty, the most important consideration i personally would have for switching to vegan is the statistics regarding how many people around the world go hungry or are starving because of the meat consumption in the 1st world countries and all the grain that is wasted feeding and fattening the animals for slaughter. We tend in the West to ignore these facts, but, to me, they are--or perhaps should be--very persuasive for a Christian's conscience.

i don't know what other issues God might raise regarding a Christian's diet--scripture more or less seems to condone meat consumption if the eating isn't a stumbling block to others and doesn't include the consumption of blood or the meat of strangled animals.

But, thanks to your inconsiderate act of making me think about this issue once again as Lent approaches--a period of veganism as you may know--i think it is something i will bring before the Lord in prayer for the duration of Lent and perhaps not go back to meat after Pascha.

Welcome to C.F. and thanks for a good topic to think about and discuss!

:bow:ABBA'S SLAVE,
ephraim
 
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Sketcher

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Jesus ate meat (Luke 24:42-43), and if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. Furthermore, no one can be morally better than Jesus in any way. Therefore, there is nothing morally better about avoiding meat or dairy products rather than consuming them.
 
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grasping the after wind

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I don't find any evidence in the Bible to support a vegan diet. I don't find any evidence in the Bible that suggests that animals are a higher form of life than vegetables. I don't find any evidence in the Bible to suggest that, as Christians (as opposed to Hebrews, Israelites or Jews), we need concern ourselves over what kind of food we eat. However, as a human being you must follow the dictates of your conscience when it comes to issues such as animal cruelty. There are ways to remain an omnivore and make sure that animals are treated properly but they tend to be expensive. I would just caution anyone that wishes to follow a vegan diet that, from what I have been told, there has been some envidence to suggest that you run the risk of subjecting your brain to malnutrition if you are not extremely careful since the fats and protein that sustain the brain are most commonly found in animal products. I believe that there are supplements that can be bought that are adequate if not optimal vegetable based substitutes for the nutrients found in fish, eggs, milk meat etc. I'm sure that someone with actual expertise in this area could give you a better idea of the risks and the ways to combat those risks.
 
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MY FRIEND,

It was really inconsiderate of you to introduce this topic at this particular time and ruin my breakfast!


In any event, yes this is a very valid issue and has been argued back and forth for the past 2000 years. i have been struggling with it of and on and have not been able to come to any lasting conclusions. Had i to make a firm decision at this particular point in time, i would agree with you.

In all honesty, the most important consideration i personally would have for switching to vegan is the statistics regarding how many people around the world go hungry or are starving because of the meat consumption in the 1st world countries and all the grain that is wasted feeding and fattening the animals for slaughter. We tend in the West to ignore these facts, but, to me, they are--or perhaps should be--very persuasive for a Christian's conscience.

i don't know what other issues God might raise regarding a Christian's diet--scripture more or less seems to condone meat consumption if the eating isn't a stumbling block to others and doesn't include the consumption of blood or the meat of strangled animals.

But, thanks to your inconsiderate act of making me think about this issue once again as Lent approaches--a period of veganism as you may know--i think it is something i will bring before the Lord in prayer for the duration of Lent and perhaps not go back to meat after Pascha.

Welcome to C.F. and thanks for a good topic to think about and discuss!

:bow:ABBA'S SLAVE,
ephraim

Thank you for the thoughtful response! I appreciate it very much! And I am very sorry about ruining your breakfast =) (I didn't realize a vegan diet was part of Lent; that is very interesting).

I have been thinking of this ever since I also heard the high price of grain, due to animal consumption, is a key factor in global poverty/starvation. This enough, is obviously enough for any person to switch to a vegan diet.

Although fighting poverty is a concern for me (and a large one as I consider fighting losing battles a key part of our duty as Christians) it is a little more personal for me.

I was discussing evil with other some other people and one person listed several types or categories of evil. He said something I will try to paraphrase: I saw wolves surround a deer and I saw the terror the deer felt as it was attacked and killed. This process seemed "evil." I would have to agree. Although it is a "natural" process the natural world is corrupted so the systems bound to it are essentially "evil" and under rule of the devil.

Also I have no real desire to eat meat. I do not especially enjoy it, and my body feels better and healthier after a good vegan meal than a meal with animal products.

I am more concerned with these things as I wish not to be a part of this "system." I'm sure this sounds weird, but I don't even step on spiders anymore as they are beautiful in their own way and they are also God's creation.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote in the book "Time Quake" a perspective that he didn't like fishing because killing a fish was like taking a hammer to a fine Swiss watch, and this is coming from an atheist!

On top of that I have to again ask the question: Should animals suffer for my comfort? I don't need to eat animals and they don't need to suffer for me so it would seem ideal to avoid it if I can.

"Jesus ate meat (Luke 24:42-43), and if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. Furthermore, no one can be morally better than Jesus in any way. Therefore, there is nothing morally better about avoiding meat or dairy products rather than consuming them."

My perspective is different than yours b/c I am not really concerned with do's or don't's. To me this isn't about rule following or rule creation or even morality as much as it is my personal desire to remove myself (as much as I can) from a corrupt and even demonic system. I am not suggesting anyone here stop eating meat; I am simply asking if eating meat/animal products is something we should want to do or something we should strive to avoid. (I like the Living Sacrifice logo btw; awesome band =) )

"I don't find any evidence in the Bible to support a vegan diet. I don't find any evidence in the Bible that suggests that animals are a higher form of life than vegetables."

Animals suffer. They feel pain, fear, loneliness, and anxiety just like a human. To me this is not about animals being equal to humans, as I am not concerned about that. However I consider animals God's gift to humans and I believe we should respect them as such. From the reports I hear, the way animals are treated in slaughterhouses etc is not even close to what I would consider "respect."

Again I am not talking about looking at "Biblical evidence." I am not a person who dissects scripture the way a lawyer would, looking to find what actions are ok and what are not ok. I am more concerned with what I want to be a part of and what I want to remove myself from.

"as a human being you must follow the dictates of your conscience when it comes to issues such as animal cruelty."

I agree.

"There are ways to remain an omnivore and make sure that animals are treated properly but they tend to be expensive. I would just caution anyone that wishes to follow a vegan diet that, from what I have been told, there has been some envidence to suggest that you run the risk of subjecting your brain to malnutrition if you are not extremely careful since the fats and protein that sustain the brain are most commonly found in animal products. I believe that there are supplements that can be bought that are adequate if not optimal vegetable based substitutes for the nutrients found in fish, eggs, milk meat etc. I'm sure that someone with actual expertise in this area could give you a better idea of the risks and the ways to combat those risks. "

Being a vegan requires a little more research than eating a regular diet, however a person does run the risk of certain dietary deficiencies even with a meat/dairy diet.

I am a nursing student and according to our Nutrition instructor getting enough protein as a vegan is not a real problem as you simply need to eat "complementary proteins) i.e. beans and corn, beans and rice, and so on.

Getting enough fats shouldn't be a problem. You can get fats through oils, nuts, almond milk, rice milk, etc etc.

Vitamins could be a problem, but one just needs to eat a fortified cereal or vitamin supplement and that is really all.

Our nutrition teacher is a vegitarian and says a vegan diet is generally more healthy than a diet that includes meat/animal products b/c it is much lower in fat and Americans eat too much fat. 1 in 3 Americans is obese. (This is a real issue for me to as I'd love to get rid of my spare tire >_< )

Thanks all for the responses!
 
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ephraimanesti

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Again I am not talking about looking at "Biblical evidence." I am not a person who dissects scripture the way a lawyer would, looking to find what actions are ok and what are not ok. I am more concerned with what I want to be a part of and what I want to remove myself from.
MY FRIEND,

i look forward to your future posts. THE issues habitually dumped here (mainly by trolls) is usually not as stimulating or well-thought out as this one.

In any event, the issue is, of course, ultimately in the hands of God so it is His take on your beliefs which is important, not ours. As St. Paul states, "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. . . . He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. . . . .So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin." (Romans 14:5-6; 22-23) When God deals with individuals, the "one-size-fits-all" policy in place within "churchianity" does not apply, given that God measures by our unique capacity and needs.

Check out your friendly neighborhood Orthodox Church this Lent--you might just feel at home! Great Lent starts February 27th--a date on which all meat and dairy products are removed from Orthodox homes and the focus shifts from Big Macs to more Spiritual matters.

:bow:ABBA'S SLAVE,
ephraim
 
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grasping the after wind

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Thank you for the thoughtful response! I appreciate it very much! And I am very sorry about ruining your breakfast =) (I didn't realize a vegan diet was part of Lent; that is very interesting).

I have been thinking of this ever since I also heard the high price of grain, due to animal consumption, is a key factor in global poverty/starvation. This enough, is obviously enough for any person to switch to a vegan diet.

Although fighting poverty is a concern for me (and a large one as I consider fighting losing battles a key part of our duty as Christians) it is a little more personal for me.

I was discussing evil with other some other people and one person listed several types or categories of evil. He said something I will try to paraphrase: I saw wolves surround a deer and I saw the terror the deer felt as it was attacked and killed. This process seemed "evil." I would have to agree. Although it is a "natural" process the natural world is corrupted so the systems bound to it are essentially "evil" and under rule of the devil.

Also I have no real desire to eat meat. I do not especially enjoy it, and my body feels better and healthier after a good vegan meal than a meal with animal products.

I am more concerned with these things as I wish not to be a part of this "system." I'm sure this sounds weird, but I don't even step on spiders anymore as they are beautiful in their own way and they are also God's creation.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote in the book "Time Quake" a perspective that he didn't like fishing because killing a fish was like taking a hammer to a fine Swiss watch, and this is coming from an atheist!

On top of that I have to again ask the question: Should animals suffer for my comfort? I don't need to eat animals and they don't need to suffer for me so it would seem ideal to avoid it if I can.

"Jesus ate meat (Luke 24:42-43), and if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. Furthermore, no one can be morally better than Jesus in any way. Therefore, there is nothing morally better about avoiding meat or dairy products rather than consuming them."

My perspective is different than yours b/c I am not really concerned with do's or don't's. To me this isn't about rule following or rule creation or even morality as much as it is my personal desire to remove myself (as much as I can) from a corrupt and even demonic system. I am not suggesting anyone here stop eating meat; I am simply asking if eating meat/animal products is something we should want to do or something we should strive to avoid. (I like the Living Sacrifice logo btw; awesome band =) )

"I don't find any evidence in the Bible to support a vegan diet. I don't find any evidence in the Bible that suggests that animals are a higher form of life than vegetables."

Animals suffer. They feel pain, fear, loneliness, and anxiety just like a human. To me this is not about animals being equal to humans, as I am not concerned about that. However I consider animals God's gift to humans and I believe we should respect them as such. From the reports I hear, the way animals are treated in slaughterhouses etc is not even close to what I would consider "respect."

Again I am not talking about looking at "Biblical evidence." I am not a person who dissects scripture the way a lawyer would, looking to find what actions are ok and what are not ok. I am more concerned with what I want to be a part of and what I want to remove myself from.

"as a human being you must follow the dictates of your conscience when it comes to issues such as animal cruelty."

I agree.

"There are ways to remain an omnivore and make sure that animals are treated properly but they tend to be expensive. I would just caution anyone that wishes to follow a vegan diet that, from what I have been told, there has been some envidence to suggest that you run the risk of subjecting your brain to malnutrition if you are not extremely careful since the fats and protein that sustain the brain are most commonly found in animal products. I believe that there are supplements that can be bought that are adequate if not optimal vegetable based substitutes for the nutrients found in fish, eggs, milk meat etc. I'm sure that someone with actual expertise in this area could give you a better idea of the risks and the ways to combat those risks. "

Being a vegan requires a little more research than eating a regular diet, however a person does run the risk of certain dietary deficiencies even with a meat/dairy diet.

I am a nursing student and according to our Nutrition instructor getting enough protein as a vegan is not a real problem as you simply need to eat "complementary proteins) i.e. beans and corn, beans and rice, and so on.

Getting enough fats shouldn't be a problem. You can get fats through oils, nuts, almond milk, rice milk, etc etc.

Vitamins could be a problem, but one just needs to eat a fortified cereal or vitamin supplement and that is really all.

Our nutrition teacher is a vegitarian and says a vegan diet is generally more healthy than a diet that includes meat/animal products b/c it is much lower in fat and Americans eat too much fat. 1 in 3 Americans is obese. (This is a real issue for me to as I'd love to get rid of my spare tire >_< )

Thanks all for the responses!

1) You need to get individual quotes around those individual quotes. It is confusing the way they are now.
2) There is no shortage of food that is causing starvation but rather an excess of corruption and lack of coordination. The amount of food that your local supermarket throws away on a daily basis would astound you.
3) I'm glad to see that you are a realist in your battle against poverty.
4) I find many vegans, vegetarians etc. do not enjoy meat and have a hard time understanding those of us that do not enjoy vegetables. I don't believe that there is an ideal human diet and I have a suspicion that individuals dislike foods that they have no nutritional need of. I think that if we were more in tune with our body's signals we might find the diet that best suits us
5) I agree that animals suffer etc. but I often wonder if the same may be true of other life forms but we are not attuned to their means of expressing these things so we assume that they do not have such feelings at all. There is no way that we can be sure that our perceptions are not clouded by the insufficiency of our intellect or the inadequacy of our sensory receptors.
 
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A side note: the Revelation isn't where the image of the lion laying with the lamb comes from, that image is actually a conflation from several images from the Prophet Isaiah. Isaiah mentions the wolf living with the lamb, the leopard lying down with the young goat, and a lion and a calf together--with a child leading them. The image most definitely is, however, of a reconciled creation.

That said, the primary issue in Christian thought is that diet is a matter of conscience. If one is convicted by conscience to be vegan then they should do just that; on the other hand if one in their conscience is fine eating meat and dairy then no one should stand in judgment of them for this.

There exists no moral imperative to not eat meat; and while a common understanding of the Genesis text suggests non-predatory behavior this should not be simply assumed. For example Psalm 104, usually remembered as the "creation psalm", recounting God's work and act of creation, presents the lion as created to hunt its prey,

"The young lions roar for their prey, seeking their food from God."


But in the end, let conscience decide. In Christianity there is no dictum concerning proscribed food; but rather that there be liberty of conscience.


-CryptoLutheran
 
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MY FRIEND,

i look forward to your future posts. THE issues habitually dumped here (mainly by trolls) is usually not as stimulating or well-thought out as this one.

In any event, the issue is, of course, ultimately in the hands of God so it is His take on your beliefs which is important, not ours. As St. Paul states, "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. . . . He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. . . . .So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin." (Romans 14:5-6; 22-23) When God deals with individuals, the "one-size-fits-all" policy in place within "churchianity" does not apply, given that God measures by our unique capacity and needs.

Check out your friendly neighborhood Orthodox Church this Lent--you might just feel at home! Great Lent starts February 27th--a date on which all meat and dairy products are removed from Orthodox homes and the focus shifts from Big Macs to more Spiritual matters.

:bow:ABBA'S SLAVE,
ephraim

Hey thanks for the warm welcome! I suppose I will end up hanging out in this area of the forums as I'm not necessarily a "trinitarian" and have been told I have to be by forum mods to post elsewhere.

If I get the chance I may go to an Orthodox church sometime. Although I myself am not very "Orthodox." I currently go to a Methodist church but I'm not really sure that I fit very well anywhere ;)

Thank you for the correction CryptoLutheran. I'm not very good at remembering exactly where things come from.
 
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ephraimanesti

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I currently go to a Methodist church but I'm not really sure that I fit very well anywhere ;)
MY BROTHER,

Truth be told, you fit right smack dab in the middle of Abba's Heart. That's a good place to be.

John Wesley rocks!

ephraim
 
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I brought this up on the forum I normally post on and I got a really interesting response so I thought it would be worth reposting here:

"It's interesting that right now I'm reading 'The Lost Religion of Jesus: Simple Living and Nonviolence in Early Christianity' by Keith Akers, and, while he isn't a professional scholar, he has done his research, and it does seem that many, if not the majority, of early Christians were vegetarian, and pacifist as well (a topic for another thread), and, the interesting thing is many of these were the very same "Orthodox" Christians who wrote treatises against the Gnostics!.

For example, Eusebius, a Church historian of the 4th century, and who wrote against what he saw as "heresy" stated Jesus was opposed to animal sacrifice and he also quoted from "Pagan" Sages, such as Apollonius of Tyana's 'Theology' and Porphyry's 'On Abstinence from Animal Food', who were both vegetarians and were opposed to animal sacrifice, which suggests that, even in the 4th century, vegetarianism was part of mainstream Christianity.

Another early Christian, Arnobius in his 'Against the Heathen', said 'Lastly, what pleasure is it to take delight in the slaughter of harmless creatures, to have the ears ringing with their piteous bellowings, to see rivers of blood, the life fleeing away with the blood'.

Essentially, I'd say many of the early Christians, mainstream, Jewish Christians, Gnostic and others, were vegetarian, perhaps not all (I've read that studies have found in some communities, particularly "lower" classes, seem to have had a diet consisting of a lot of fish), but, a significant majority of early Christians were vegetarian (though it seemed to have ended once Christianity wedded itself to the imperial power of Rome, then meat eating became the norm (as, apparently, before then, the Gospels did not contain entries of Jesus eating meat, then, "miraculously", he became a meat eater, and it was considered ok for Christians to eat meat, take part in war, and continue the Roman Empire, in another form)).

Vegetarianism was also present in Judaism as well, for example, many of the Prophets spoke out against animal sacrifice, such as Isaiah, Amos, and even God seems to express regret about creating animal sacrifice, foe example, in Ezekiel, it says 'I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life, and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that might horrify them' (Ezekiel 20:25 - 26), the first born refer to the first-born animals of the herd to be sacrificed. Apparently, also, humans were originally created vegetarian, in the Garden of Eden, humans, animals, and all beings lived in harmony, with people not killing for food."
 
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For example, Eusebius, a Church historian of the 4th century, and who wrote against what he saw as "heresy" stated Jesus was opposed to animal sacrifice and he also quoted from "Pagan" Sages, such as Apollonius of Tyana's 'Theology' and Porphyry's 'On Abstinence from Animal Food', who were both vegetarians and were opposed to animal sacrifice, which suggests that, even in the 4th century, vegetarianism was part of mainstream Christianity.

Another early Christian, Arnobius in his 'Against the Heathen', said 'Lastly, what pleasure is it to take delight in the slaughter of harmless creatures, to have the ears ringing with their piteous bellowings, to see rivers of blood, the life fleeing away with the blood'.
Jesus would not have condemned the act of animal sacrifice before his death, as it was God-ordained. His death of course, replaced animal sacrifice as the way to remit sins, so he would not have advocated its practice afterward. Jews kept on sacrificing at the temple until the Romans destroyed it, and the pagans still used animal sacrifices for their rituals hundreds of years later. The true reason Christianity had nothing to do with animal sacrifices is because of the centrality of Jesus' sacrifice once for all. No other sacrifice is needed, and because of that, no other sacrifice should be made.

There is Biblical evidence that there were many Christian vegetarians, but it was not for the reasons vocal vegetarians/vegans do so today. Many meat markets sold meat that was sacrificed to idols, and the Christians were to have nothing to do with that. Some went so far as to not eat meat at all in order to avoid eating meat tainted by idols. Paul, moved by the Holy Spirit, said to assume that meat is fine unless you know that it has been sacrificed (1 corinthians 10:27-29), but respect those who choose to play it safe (1 Corinthians 8:9-13, Romans 14). By the time Christianity became pervasive enough, the practice of idolatry faded away, and so meat markets weren't selling meat that had been sacrificed to idols anymore.

(as, apparently, before then, the Gospels did not contain entries of Jesus eating meat, then, "miraculously", he became a meat eater, and it was considered ok for Christians to eat meat, take part in war, and continue the Roman Empire, in another form)).
Where's your evidence for this? Not only did Jesus eat meat, there are multiple instances of him providing meat for others to eat (i.e. the fish and the loaves), thus approving of meat eating. These are very early stories.

Vegetarianism was also present in Judaism as well, for example, many of the Prophets spoke out against animal sacrifice, such as Isaiah, Amos, and even God seems to express regret about creating animal sacrifice, foe example, in Ezekiel, it says 'I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life, and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that might horrify them' (Ezekiel 20:25 - 26), the first born refer to the first-born animals of the herd to be sacrificed. Apparently, also, humans were originally created vegetarian, in the Garden of Eden, humans, animals, and all beings lived in harmony, with people not killing for food."
Which passages has these prophets or God speaking against animal sacrifice itself? There were many prophetic warnings about insincere sacrifices and a lackadaisical "I'll be fine, I'll be sacrificing" attitude, but I have read nothing speaking against animal sacrifice itself. After all, God commanded that animals be sacrificed.
 
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I suppose the "proof" would be in the book that was mentioned. (I haven't read the book, so I can't speak to it myself). Although when it comes to scholarly debate I don't think there is any "proof" only speculation. We could argue from here until kingdom come about what revisions the gospels may or may not have undergone from the time they were written to the time they were canonized. I don't think it will help us any.

Did Jesus eat meat or not? It doesn't matter to me personally. While Christ was here his physical body was subject to the problems of our world. Pain, aging, etc. His physical body was trapped in the same world where animals kill other animals to live.

Did God authorize killing animals as sacrifice? Sure but I don't think that killing animals for sacrifice was ever an act of restoration. Even though sacrifice leads to restoration this symbolic act is still very different than killing animals for food.

If you want to look at Christ eating meat as justification for eating meat then that is fine and I don't intend to dissuade you from eating meat, as that was never my intention. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about eating meat or consuming animal products whatsoever.

For me this is not about what we are allowed to do but instead asking: what we should want? I'm personally more interested in resurrection and restoration than I am about my life as it is now.
 
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Incariol

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Hi all. I'm new to the forum so I hope this is the right place to put this.

This is something that has been on my mind lately and I am wondering how other Christians feel about this.

Traditionally it seems Christians consider consuming animal products perfectly acceptable; however my question is even though it is "acceptable" isn't it still something that should be avoided if possible? (I should note that I am including dairy/eggs in this discussion b/c of the conditions that these animals are often kept under i.e. small enclosures and unsanitary. However I don't see any problem with consuming dairy/egg from an animal that is well maintained).

It is my understanding this acceptance comes from God telling Adam that man has dominion over the animals and then also from Peter revealing the dream that eating any animal acceptable.

However it is my understanding that animals did not consume each other (literally or otherwise) until the first sin and the corruption of the physical world. After this time animals (including man) began to kill and eat other animals to survive.

So I would tend to conclude that killing animals to survive and the necessity of animals suffering for our comfort a cycle of a corrupted system. To go further, as satan is the "god" of this world, all our physical systems are corrupted and generally under under the realm of satan (although I'm sure this point is debatable among varying theologies).

In Revelation "The lion lays side by side with the lamb" denoting an end to corrupt physical systems and cycles.

So shouldn't that be something that should be strived for, and shouldn't veganism be more desirable than eating animals? Even though we are absolved of something doing something awful, shouldn't we still strive to avoid it, as it seems to me, to be part of a demonic and corrupt system?

In Christianity, the physical is not automatically "corrupt".
 
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Sketcher

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For me this is not about what we are allowed to do but instead asking: what we should want? I'm personally more interested in resurrection and restoration than I am about my life as it is now.

Good to know, and that's much better to focus on. What we should want has nothing to do with eating or drinking, but rather to love God increasingly, and to love people increasingly. That's what we are to do every day as Christians.
 
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In Christianity, the physical is not automatically "corrupt".

In Genesis the world becomes corrupted when Adam and Eve sin doesn't it?

But I'm not really Orthodox so I'll just say I believe the physical world is completely corrupted and that satan is the "god" of this world. I don't think that is much of a departure from being Orthodox.
 
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Incariol

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In Genesis the world becomes corrupted when Adam and Eve sin doesn't it?

And was redeemed through His Incarnation...

But I'm not really Orthodox so I'll just say I believe the physical world is completely corrupted and that satan is the "god" of this world. I don't think that is much of a departure from being Orthodox.

Um no, actually Gnosticism is a condemned heresy. It is a complete departure from Orthodoxy. Feel free to ask in http://www.christianforums.com/f145/ if you don't believe me.
 
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