Drug Wars, Migrant Discrimination & Prison Reform: Real Solutions for healing Economy

[OldWiseGuy]

We need Sustainable Immigration Reform. It's well known that today's tidal wave numbers hurt America's poor the most, and exist mainly to provide cheap labor.

We should end the student loan programs. This would force students to take the jobs that immigrants now do. Colleges began convincing students that they would be better off borrowing money and staying in school rather than working. As a result millions of students are hopelessly in debt. It would also have the effect of lowering the cost of education as the windfall of money provided by these loans would dry up.

 

[KarateCowboy]

That is an interesting idea. I never considered it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That is an interesting idea. I never considered it.

Wait, there's more. It would also change the present 'Degree mills' back into institutes of higher learning. It would likely reduce enrollments as many simply wouldn't be able to afford college. Those gifted and highly motivated, or well financed, would find ways to get in however.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Will Prison Reform Diminish Crime in the U.S.? - YouTube

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Attorney Alton Maddox - The Prison Industrial Complex - YouTube

 

[Joykins]

Even in the United States the end of alcohol prohibition had an effect on crime rates.

It apparently also had a beneficial and long-term effect on alcoholism/alcohol consumption rates. Who knew?

Death rates from cirrhosis and alcoholism, alcoholic psychosis hospital admissions, and drunkenness arrests all declined steeply during the latter years of the 1910s, when both the cultural and the legal climate were increasingly inhospitable to drink, and in the early years after National Prohibition went into effect. They rose after that, but generally did not reach the peaks recorded during the period 1900 to 1915. After Repeal, when tax data permit better-founded consumption estimates than we have for the Prohibition Era, per capita annual consumption stood at 1.2 US gallons (4.5 liters), less than half the level of the pre-Prohibition period.
...
The true results of Prohibition’s success in socializing Americans in temperate habits became apparent during World War II, when the federal government turned a more cordial face toward the liquor industry than it had during World War I, and they became even more evident during the prosperous years that followed.50 Although annual consumption rose, to about 2 gallons per capita in the 1950s and 2.4 gallons in the 1960s, it did not surpass the pre-Prohibition peak until the early 1970s.51

Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation

 

[OGM]

Prohibition is what put the "organized" in organized crime. So much violence and corruption surrounded it. One can see the reason why it had to be repealed.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Prohibition is what put the "organized" in organized crime. So much violence and corruption surrounded it. One can see the reason why it had to be repealed.

There are some things which seemed to make sense as to why they were placed in the Prohibition camp...

It was interesting for me to realize years ago where alcohol itself was not allowed on certain days throughout U.S history, including Sunday when considering the religious background of the nation.

As one of my sisters in Christ noted best on the issue:

The Sunday purchase/work thing has been around a long time in the US as the wiki article states, but as far as having dry counties and such on Sunday - that's more recent, Temperance Movement and Prohibition times... There are some counties that are completely dry on Sundays in restaurants, and you can hop the county line to a "wet" state any ol' time you want. Same in SC. Hop the GA line and there you go.

As far as work and such here in Europe, most countries still have laws on the book that mandate Restaurants being unable to open until after church hours (usu 12 or 1pm) and that gas stations have limited hours, and no shopping or pharmacies be open. Police and other emergency places are open, but on limited staff usually so people can be with their families on the weekend, even if they are not religious.

In smaller villages, most places shut down around 2pm on Saturdays.

It makes it really difficult when you car share and only shop a couple times a month.

Jane, you might like the PBS 3 part documentary on the Prohibition that ran not that long ago. I think it's still available online, and it's also available to purchase. Perhaps it's something your library could get on loan? It was very good and went over the good, bad and ugly of the Prohibition in the US, and how the attitudes about alcohol in the US were shaped and formed. Why certain people have major issue with it, and others not so much. How people groups were demonized for their lifestyle (Germans, Nordic immigrants, Irish etc) because of drink, and the climate that brought about the prohibition and why it wasn't a good thing for our country.

Prohibition: About the Series | PBS

​

I'm still amazed at seeing how George Washington was the largest whiskey producer in America... . To be fair, America was much smaller back then, it was before the revolution in 1776, the Word of Wisdom was unknown, and there was no Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any real democracy, so things were much different then, than they are today.

Later, he got himself into trouble with what's known as the he Whiskey Rebellion, or Whiskey Insurrection, which was a tax protest in the United States beginning in 1791. Concerning the event, farmers who used their grain in the form of whiskey as a medium of exchange were forced to pay a new tax which was a part of treasury secretary Alexander Hamilton's program to increase central government power, in particular to fund his policy of assuming the war debt of those states which had failed to pay.

Farmers who resisted, many war veterans, were fighting for the principles of the American Revolution, in particular against taxation without local representation...and throughout counties in Western Pennsylvania, protesters used violence and intimidation to prevent federal officials from collecting the tax.

Later, resistance came to a climax in July 1794, when a U.S. marshal arrived in western Pennsylvania to serve writs to distillers who had not paid the excise. After the alarm was raised, more than 500 armed men attacked the fortified home of tax inspector General John Neville. George Washington responded by sending peace commissioners to western Pennsylvania to negotiate with the rebels, while at the same time calling on governors to send a militia force to enforce the tax. With 15,000 militia provided by the governors of Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania, Washington rode at the head of an army to suppress the insurgency. Consequently, the rebels all went home before the arrival of the army, and there was no confrontation. About 20 men were arrested, but all were later acquitted or pardoned.

Ultimately, the Whiskey Rebellion demonstrated that the new national government had the willingness and ability to suppress violent resistance to its laws. The whiskey excise remained difficult to collect, however.

• Text of the 1791 excise act
• "Whiskey and Geography
• Washington's Proclamation of August 7, 1794
• "Why the Whiskey Rebellion Is Worth Recalling Now
• George Washington's Proclamation of September 15, 1792
• "The Whiskey Rebellion of 1794: A Democratic Working-Class Insurrection​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It apparently also had a beneficial and long-term effect on alcoholism/alcohol consumption rates. Who knew?


Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation

Excellent review and thanks for sharing that, by the way..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Obama can't do it by himself. He needs a coalition of citizens.

President Obama needs people to place unified pressure on him to get the jobs done - there was an excellent presentation on the subject that speaks to the issue....seen in Angela Davis on Prison Abolition, the War on Drugs and Why Social Movements Shouldn’t Wait on Obama

"This is Obama's second term. He really has nothing to lose," notes Angela Davis...AND there are a lot of issues others want to see President Obama tackle before his term is up.

"I think that we might have had more victories during the era of Obama’s administration had we mobilized, had we continually put pressure on him, and also created the possibility for him to take more progressive stances," Davis says.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Glad this has occurred (despite the Obama Administration’s complicity with the private prison industry and how it is STILL an issue when it comes to making money on Privatized Prisons and Slave Labor): Obama Will Take 'Executive Action' to Reduce Prison Population | CNS News.

Additionally, I am glad for how last December President Obama reduced the sentences Thursday of eight prisoners serving long federal prison sentences — six of them life sentences — under draconian laws for crack-cocaine sentencing...while also pardoning 13 others, at least six of whom were in prison for drug offenses, noting that the eight individuals whose sentences he commuted were serving racially discriminatory sentences for crack cocaine, under a pre-2010 sentencing disparity that issued sentences 100 times harsher for crack cocaine, associated with African Americans, than for powder cocaine, associated with whites.

Additionally, President Obama recently launched an initiative aimed at improving the lives of young black and Latino men by bringing businesses and foundations together with government agencies to change what an administration official called the "school-to-prison pipeline." It's called ‘My Brother’s Keeper’ Initiative and it will mark the latest in a series of efforts by the president to spur social change outside the stalemated legislative process. And the move also represents an escalation of Obama's efforts to directly target the problems faced by young men of color. It has been the case, during the last 5yrs, that Obama has met privately with groups of minority teenagers and young men in their communities and at the White House - and he has spoken on fatherhood multiple times before. However, in his State of the Union speech, Obama pledged to go further by saying he would bring more of his resources as president to bear on the social problems that get in the way of success for minority youth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVx6oTStSoo

 

[OGM]

Those crack-laws were insane!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Those crack-laws were insane!

Goodness, they were truly insane..

And it's sad to see how crazy it is that others still don't realize how messed up the laws were

 

[Gxg (G²)]

America should re-examine its approach to the war on drugs, the justice system and incarceration. [/b]

As it concerns the issue of approach of the U.S on men within the justice system, it seems that there are a lot of things people can learn from if studying the past and seeing the ways that prisoners responded to injustices. I'm reminded of the Attica Prison Riots. With Attica, not a lot of people investigated what actually happened in the prison riot - or how well informed the prisoners were (and how many of them were thrown in without proper trial - just as it is today). As other prisoners note, prisoners are a third economic class that actually help the economy and need to be represented. AND not many realize how many human rights violations happen to prisoners all the time

• From Attica to Abolition: An Evening to Honor Edwin (Eddie) Ellis | Prison Studies Project - Teaching, Research and Outreach

• The Attica prison uprising: A bloody day in New York | The Economist

• The Hidden 1970s: Histories of Radicalism - Google Books

For our times today, especially as it concerns the reality of prison reform ...and prison abolition, with others noting that there's a reason not many wish to actually deal with it. It's on the Attica Prison Revolt (Part 1 of 3).

RBG- 1971 Attica Rebellion And Massacre 1 of 3 - YouTube

RBG- 1971 Attica Rebellion And Massacre 2 of 3 - YouTube​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwfmevgRCk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWJxUbexVAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmj5aCkWZQs

 

[Gxg (G²)]

As it concerns the issue of approach of the U.S on men within the justice system, it seems that there are a lot of things people can learn from if studying the past and seeing the ways that prisoners responded to injustices. I'm reminded of the Attica Prison Riots. With Attica, not a lot of people investigated what actually happened in the prison riot - or how well informed the prisoners were (and how many of them were thrown in without proper trial - just as it is today). As other prisoners note, prisoners are a third economic class that actually help the economy and need to be represented. AND not many realize how many human rights violations happen to prisoners all the time

• From Attica to Abolition: An Evening to Honor Edwin (Eddie) Ellis | Prison Studies Project - Teaching, Research and Outreach

• The Attica prison uprising: A bloody day in New York | The Economist

• Obama will be the first president to visit a prison. Here's wh
  
  
• Obama to become first sitting president to visit a prison