Drug Wars, Migrant Discrimination & Prison Reform: Real Solutions for healing Economy

[Gxg (G²)]

Apparently, even the homeless are now being arrested...

S.C. - "It's Illegal To Be Homeless, Jail Or FEMA Camp?" - YouTube

It is Illegal to Be Homeless in America Now: Being Sent to FEMA Camps! - YouTube



I'm shocked to see how South Carolina City Took Steps to Evict Homeless From Downtown
(as seen here).

• FEMA Camp has begun: Homeless First! | True Activist

Sad that the prison-industrial complex has moved to criminalizing the homeless...

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Awesome study/review on the issue:



Prison Industrial Complex in America - YouTube

America's War On Drugs - The Prison Industrial Complex - YouTube

I suffered through the first presentation but the second was just too long.

There are more problems than meet the eye with prison populations.

1. The system is overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of inmates.

2. There is neither the money, the will, or the ideas needed, to improve the system.

So there you have it.

 

[NightHawkeye]

I suffered through the first presentation but the second was just too long.

There are more problems than meet the eye with prison populations.

1. The system is overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of inmates.

2. There is neither the money, the will, or the ideas needed, to improve the system.

So there you have it.

On one hand ... a moral people. On the other ... an immoral people who respond only to force.

Government force has been demonstrably shown to be capable of bringing lawlessness under control. For example, exile to Siberia solved a lot of the problems in the Soviet Union. Prison camps in China similarly solved many problems in that country.

I tend to favor morality personally, but a large percentage of the population seems determinedly in favor of the heavy hand of government.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

On one hand ... a moral people. On the other ... an immoral people who respond only to force.

Government force has been demonstrably shown to be capable of bringing lawlessness under control. For example, exile to Siberia solved a lot of the problems in the Soviet Union. Prison camps in China similarly solved many problems in that country.

I tend to favor morality personally, but a large percentage of the population seems determinedly in favor of the heavy hand of government.

The criminal justice system is too institutionalized (no pun intended) and too inflexible to deal with the problems. For example, there is no periodic fasting program for prisoners. Complete rest and reducing pollutants in the body has a tremendous calming effect on a person and often changes their way of thinking in very positive ways. Fasting would greatly alleviate anger, depression, frustration, suicidal thoughts and feelings, and possibly reduce deviant thoughts and behaviors as well (it would also save on the food bills).

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The criminal justice system is too institutionalized (no pun intended) and too inflexible to deal with the problems. For example, there is no periodic fasting program for prisoners. Complete rest and reducing pollutants in the body has a tremendous calming effect on a person and often changes their way of thinking in very positive ways. Fasting would greatly alleviate anger, depression, frustration, suicidal thoughts and feelings, and possibly reduce deviant thoughts and behaviors as well (it would also save on the food bills).

Music helps as well, amazingly. There have been many amazing discussions on the issue of how there have been many uses of classical music by law enforcement and other cultural institutions as social control, to quell and prevent crime. ...

Music and the Brain: Music, Criminal Behavior, and Crime Prevention - YouTube

 

[Gxg (G²)]

On one hand ... a moral people. On the other ... an immoral people who respond only to force.

Government force has been demonstrably shown to be capable of bringing lawlessness under control. For example, exile to Siberia solved a lot of the problems in the Soviet Union. Prison camps in China similarly solved many problems in that country.

I tend to favor morality personally, but a large percentage of the population seems determinedly in favor of the heavy hand of government.

Sometimes, it seems that the use of government force has been a matter of reflecting lawlessness when it comes to putting others in prison who didn't deserve it simply for the sake of preserving the peace/making it seem as if all things are good when you remove others....

China's history is very big on that.. ..if remembering Lao Gai Prison Camps...

As another noted best:

After the setup of the People’s Republic of China in 1949, the Laogai was established under the tutelage of Soviet experts, who – as was to be expected – used their knowhow of operating the Gulag camps. The Gulag had been in existence since the 1920s. In addition to a number of infrastructure projects, these experts helped the Chinese Communists to establish Qincheng Prison in Beijing Municipality in the 1950s. Qincheng is isolated and highly secret. Most inmates are political prisoners. It was then designed and funded entirely by the Soviet Union. In the early 1950s the news was widespread in China that there were 156 Socialist Construction Projects underway, fully supported by China’s “Big Brother” the Soviet Union. The 156 projects included steel plants, railways, river dams, etc. However, it was not until 40 years later that people learned there were actually 157 projects, not 156. The 157th project was Qincheng Prison. It was the first Laogai General Brigade in Beijing Municipality.
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[Gxg (G²)]

There are more problems than meet the eye with prison populations.

1. The system is overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of inmates.

2. There is neither the money, the will, or the ideas needed, to improve the system.

So there you have it.

Both of the things you noted still go back to the fundamental issue that the OP focused on: (1) Many of the sheer numbers had to do with people not deserving to BE in prison in the first place and prisons making money off of getting people into prison ...and (2) The money isn't directed to the proper places, seeing there's a lot of money already made BY incarceration, and thus there's no real desire to change the system since it's a money machine.

There are plenty of ideas that have been presented for prison reform - many of them already noted earlier. One would have to ignore many activists, lawyers and workers in the Law system to say otherwise - but at the end of the day, it's about who is in charge..

 

[NightHawkeye]

There are plenty of ideas that have been presented for prison reform - many of them already noted earlier. One would have to ignore many activists, lawyers and workers in the Law system to say otherwise - but at the end of the day, it's about who is in charge..

Again, I would argue for instilling morality in society to minimize the need for incarceration. Policies which support nuclear families, personal responsibility, hard work and even religion are greatly preferable to incarceration.

Lawlessness and violence take a dreadful toll on society ... even when the offenders are eventually incarcerated.

 

[jgarden]

Incarceration Rates - by Nation

Rank - Nation - Prisoners per 100 000
*********************************
1 United States 716

5 Cuba 510

8 Russia 484

10 El Salvador 425

13 Belize 407

15 Panama 401

25 Greenland 340
26 Belarus 335

29 Costa Rica 314

32 Puerto Rico 311
32 Ukraine 311

37 South Africa 289

41 Taiwan 280
42 Uruguay 279

44 Brazil 274
45 Chile 270

62 Israel 223

67 Mexico 209

68 Slovakia 205

74 New Zealand 193

81 Hungary 173

92 Romania 156
94 Czech Republic 154

100 Spain 149
101 England & Wales England and Wales 148
102 Argentina 147
103 Scotland 146

111 Portugal 134
112 Australia 130
112 Hong Kong 130

124 China 121 or 170

132 Croatia 115
133 Canada 114

136 Greece 111

139 Italy 108

142 Austria 103

144 France 101

146 Belgium 100

148 Northern Ireland 99

152 Jordan 95
155 Ireland 94
156 South Korea 92

163 Netherlands 82
163 Switzerland 82

166 Germany 80

176 Norway 71

177 Slovenia 69
179 Denmark 68
180 Sweden 67

189 Finland 60

196 Japan 54

201 Iceland 47

List of countries by incarceration rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If incarnation served as a true deterrent against crime, then America would be the safest nation on earth.

Given that the inverse appears to be true, its past time that America should re-examine its approach to the war on drugs, the justice system and incarceration.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Both of the things you noted still go back to the fundamental issue that the OP focused on: (1) Many of the sheer numbers had to do with people not deserving to BE in prison in the first place and prisons making money off of getting people into prison ...and (2) The money isn't directed to the proper places, seeing there's a lot of money already made BY incarceration, and thus there's no real desire to change the system since it's a money machine.

There are plenty of ideas that have been presented for prison reform - many of them already noted earlier. One would have to ignore many activists, lawyers and workers in the Law system to say otherwise - but at the end of the day, it's about who is in charge..

Prisoners and jailers are cut from the same cloth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Both of the things you noted still go back to the fundamental issue that the OP focused on: (1) Many of the sheer numbers had to do with people not deserving to BE in prison in the first place and prisons making money off of getting people into prison ...and (2) The money isn't directed to the proper places, seeing there's a lot of money already made BY incarceration, and thus there's no real desire to change the system since it's a money machine.

There are plenty of ideas that have been presented for prison reform - many of them already noted earlier. One would have to ignore many activists, lawyers and workers in the Law system to say otherwise - but at the end of the day, it's about who is in charge..

You've nailed it. It all about who is in charge.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If incarnation served as a true deterrent against crime, then America would be the safest nation on earth.

Given that the inverse appears to be true, its past time that America should re-examine its approach to the war on drugs, the justice system and incarceration.

True enough....and amazingly, no real change has occurred in just locking folks away. Incaration leads to bad economy when it's overly charged up...

 

[Ishraqiyun]

spending when it comes to the prison industrial complex which is harming minorities at substantial levels.

Reforming the prison industry should be a key issue but politicians tend not to bring it up at all. We have horrible conflicts of interest going on there too. We have private companies builiding prisions and then getting promises from the government that they will get a certain amount of inmates. This puts pressure on the judges to fill the prisons up.

We also have the prisons full of non-violent offenders like drug addicts who are forced to break the law if they want a fix. Drug addiction is a diseases and shouldn't be treated by the criminal justice system. All getting the police and courts involved does is further complicate the problem and make it worse. We need to end the war on [some] drugs. It increases violent crime and turf wars, ends up leading to drastic differences in potency and deadly cut materials, sends non-violent people to prison where they often learn violence and a life a crime, and just all around multiplies the problem already posed by the drug use itself. What it doesn't do is help ameliorate the problem though. The gains from prohibition are so minor and the bad side effects so outrageously huge that it needs to be ditched.

 

[OGM]

You would think we would have learned from the failed alcohol prohibition.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Even if drugs were decriminalized many drug users would still go to prison for crimes committed that relate directly to their addictions.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

First step would be to prohibit the production of any more privately owned prisons. Imprisoning people shouldn't be a for profit business. When people can make millions off the enterprise it could lead the owners to lobby for bills that would increase the numbers of people who need their "service" or to them using their wealth to buy elections to get the canidates in office who will keep the prisoners flowing in. I wouldn't be surprised if the prison lobbey was already spending money to lobby against Pot decriminalization.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Even if drugs were decriminalized many drug users would still go to prison for crimes committed that relate directly to their addictions.

Some might but many won't. Not all drug users steal. The illegality of drugs artificially jacks up the price and resultant legal problems can make it hard for people to find jobs. The illegal nature of drug use helps create a crimnal environment sorrunding the whole thing like alcohol prohibition did. I would expect the number of drug related crimes to be reduced if decriminalization took place. They did in Portugal. Decriminalization was a major success there.

 

[OGM]

Even in the United States the end of alcohol prohibition had an effect on crime rates.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The Drug War is a huge enterprise that makes $Billions for the participants. I don't see it changing substantially anytime soon.

 

[KarateCowboy]

We need Sustainable Immigration Reform. It's well known that today's tidal wave numbers hurt America's poor the most, and exist mainly to provide cheap labor.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform is unjust because it provides amnesty for people who have already shown they do not respect our laws. The best solution to foreign interlopers is attrition through enforcement. Programs like E-verify are shown to remove the jobs magnet that attracts foreign interlopers.

Finally, our environment needs protection. A nation's environmental impact is the product of its size, affluence, and technology. Less immigration means greener immigration. As the founder of Earth Day put it "To say you're for the environment and for high immigration is phony".