Dreading church

[SeventhValley]

Uhhh palm Sunday procession at my wife's church. Not looking forward to it. I hate it.

I really hate church lately. I just want to take a nap during the procession.

I have found more truth in this:

 

[Wryetui]

I just think, in my humble opinion, that pictures and affirmations like those makes Jesus useless. Of course people want to go to heaven, of course people want good after life and of course people want eternal life, so God saw that, and even if they have sinned, God came to earth to live what we should have lived if it wasn't for Him and He opened the gates of heaven to us, because He is love. God gave us the key to heaven, called Christ, but people still don't understand that, they have refused the only way to heaven because they don't believe in Him and they are still trying to find another ways, I find it sad...

 

[Llauralin]

Sorry to hear that Seventh Valley. Why are you feeling that way? Why hate and dread? Have you talked about this with your wife? It sounds like much more than the indifference or expectation of tiredness of someone who doesn't believe in what's being celebrated.

 

[SeventhValley]

Years of prayer have produced nothing as far as confidence that God exists. 99% of Christians don't follow Christs teachings.

The world rewards lies and power while it punishes those who tell the truth.

So I can spend my time chasing a God who is silent or just pull the plug and pick up The Prince at the local book store and drink a beer.

Why spend half of every Sunday doing something that has never lead to belief or even faith?

I spent awhile earlier this year at Orthodox vespers but even that did not kindle any faith.

In the last couple of weeks ambivalence (at my wifes Methodist church) turned to loathing around all those people "worshipping " a God they do not know exists. Then of course as the man I am suppose to lead mealtime prayers. Why pray to the thing that provides but also kills? God if he exists seems to be equal light and darkness.

 

[dzheremi]

Attending liturgies and other meetings does not produce faith from nothing. What you need, what we all need, is prayer. True prayer which is taking from God, not merely spending time in a church or what have you. You recognize what you do not have. Now work on recognizing the One who has what you need, and is the only One who can give it to you. It's much easier said than done (I'm still working at it, and failing miserably), but there's really no alternative to struggling with God in prayer. Some of our greatest saints struggled mightily with doubts, too. The difference between them and us is that they kept struggling and didn't give up. We need to not give up, either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Vx1uZxXd0

 

[ArmyMatt]

Lord have mercy!

 

[rusmeister]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyc0wwQz6Os

Sounds like the quote in the OP. And a response to it.

 

[Dorothea]

I would suggest you make yourself go. That's what I do sometimes because once I'm there in the church during liturgy, I am at peace, and of course, when I receive the Body and Blood of Christ, it is everything to me. I have to be at church to receive His Holy Mysteries and other church services to survive, frankly. He is the reason I live, if you will.

 

[Llauralin]

Years of prayer have produced nothing as far as confidence that God exists. 99% of Christians don't follow Christs teachings.

The world rewards lies and power while it punishes those who tell the truth.

So I can spend my time chasing a God who is silent or just pull the plug and pick up The Prince at the local book store and drink a beer.

Why spend half of every Sunday doing something that has never lead to belief or even faith?

I spent awhile earlier this year at Orthodox vespers but even that did not kindle any faith.

In the last couple of weeks ambivalence (at my wifes Methodist church) turned to loathing around all those people "worshipping " a God they do not know exists. Then of course as the man I am suppose to lead mealtime prayers. Why pray to the thing that provides but also kills? God if he exists seems to be equal light and darkness.

Lord have mercy.

It sounds like you must care about it some, or it wouldn't bother you so much.

Machiavelli and Marx are better with wine (though why not beer? If you really like it), friends, good skies, and some prayer. Otherwise we end up with monstrous regimes that can do a lot of damage. But I've been pleasantly surprised that actually reading them is better than worrying about hearsay concerning them. The problems are real and worth considering. It's just the solutions that are harmful. But you might prefer Brothers Karamazov, since it sounds like you'd relate to Ivan.

It bothers you that other people do believe what they're doing in church matters, and that their prayers really do ascend to God, who alone has true Being? Because they seem deluded, or dishonest, or something else?

 

[truefiction1]

I find that when I have had difficulty in attending Church Services it is because that particular activity was interfering with other, more preferable activities which I was engaging in because of their effectiveness at shielding me from identifying truths or having feelings that I wished to deny, or avoid. Mostly, I was kind of being like that guy who felt he needed to put off dedicating himself to God because he felt he needed to build a secure future for himself, with his "silos filled with grain", whereas he kept the silo of his own mind void of truth. For, no amount of wealth, or temporal pleasure can really protect any of us from those things we dread the most. God alone can deliver.

 

[SeventhValley]

Lord have mercy.

It sounds like you must care about it some, or it wouldn't bother you so much.

Machiavelli and Marx are better with wine (though why not beer? If you really like it), friends, good skies, and some prayer. Otherwise we end up with monstrous regimes that can do a lot of damage. But I've been pleasantly surprised that actually reading them is better than worrying about hearsay concerning them. The problems are real and worth considering. It's just the solutions that are harmful. But you might prefer Brothers Karamazov, since it sounds like you'd relate to Ivan.

It bothers you that other people do believe what they're doing in church matters, and that their prayers really do ascend to God, who alone has true Being? Because they seem deluded, or dishonest, or something else?

Lol I think you are the third or forth person to recommend Brothers Karamazov on this board. Maybe I should give it a try

 

[SeventhValley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyc0wwQz6Os

Sounds like the quote in the OP. And a response to it.

Interesting clip

 

[SeventhValley]

The Luke warmness of it all bothers me
Go to church donate money to church philanthropy. Go back home, rinse, repeat.

Boring and no better than the golden rule in substance.

 

[ArmyMatt]

then don't you be lukewarm. the only way to change others is to struggle to become Christlike yourself. they will see the change in you and (Godwilling) follow that.

 

[SeventhValley]

I'm trying but it is hard to do. It would be easier if I had more householder role models.

 

[SeventhValley]

The Fathers and Saints are awesome but I just have a hard time relating to them.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You know, Seventh, here I am full of faith, wanting to worship the Lord, eager to know Him in a deeper way, starving for the Resurrection and the holiness of this season, and cut apart away from my parish like dead flesh. I feel like I have the choices of being a slave under mind control and domination by arrogant men and keep my status as Orthodox or I can be free of the abuse and not be Orthodox.

It isn't pleasant feeling how I feel or living like I'm living. I have this tremendous burst of Christian energy. I'm a vessel full of love for God. I thought I had found "home" in the faith, and really I've just had one lousy experience after another, one disappointment after another, and more Pharisee-like stuff from the clergy than humility and encouragement. I've never felt so low, so un-loved, unwanted, and unwelcome. And it's not the first or second time.

You feel God isn't out there sometimes and that there is nothing. Sad thing is, i TRULY DO FEEL He's out there, but finding a Church home has been pure Gehenna for Kate, the kids, and I. We jokingly call ourselves "Orthodox in Exile" right now.

Funny thing is, I still can't part with the T-bar cross in my heart. I'm working on that. I had someone the other day come by our home, a guest, and they marveled at our icon wall. They just couldn't stop talking about it, over and over, spell-bound. We have around $6,000 worth of icons (though I certainly did NOT pay that!), and it is lovely. They've enriched our prayer life immensely. Anyway, she asked me what religion we are? It just came out of our mouth: "Orthodox." Then Kate and I looked at each other with the sad reality that that is coming to an end it seems.

I feel like I'm getting divorced from my high school sweetheart or like someone has died. I HATE spiritual life right now.

So, despite your opposite issue from mine, I know the empty and yuck feeling you're going through I'm pretty sure. Sucks. Badly.

The path to the Lord is often so laden with gopher holes and snakes within, so many pick-pockets and thieves, liars, and Trojan Horses....ugh. I'm super frustrated.

I might just go visit, without communion, my parents' Anglican parish during Holy Week. I've been attending an Eastern Catholic parish for over a month now.

Ugh....I feel like I'm in recovery.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Join the club, mate. Illumined, holy, unfettered by so many of the sins we shoulder, knowing God so intimately and hearing His Truth so crisply. I can't identify. I hunger for God, but I feel He doesn't give me clear answers. You sometimes have God speak through friends and others. Well, I get five friends who are Christian (some Orthodox or former!) giving me conflicting advice. Parents give conflicting advice. And you have trouble discerning your "feelings" from God's admonitions and wisdom! Sometimes I just feel like we're all alone, but most of the time I feel FAITH, just direction is dizzying.

The Fathers and Saints are awesome but I just have a hard time relating to them.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I'm trying but it is hard to do.

yep it is. Christ only promised that if we follow Him we will have tribulation in this world. it's one of the ways we know we are following Him. the devil and our own fallenness fight as much as they can to get us off the correct path.

It would be easier if I had more householder role models.

I hear you. I have a few that keep me sane that I can really bank on.

The Fathers and Saints are awesome but I just have a hard time relating to them.

and they became saints because they never gave up the struggle. I am sure when St Maximos the Confessor or St Athanasius basically stood against everyone, they felt the same thing. what makes them holy is that despite the slander, they stayed true to the Orthodox faith. so the more we persist, the more close the saints become.

 

[fat wee robin]

Uhhh palm Sunday procession at my wife's church. Not looking forward to it. I hate it.

I really hate church lately. I just want to take a nap during the procession.

I have found more truth in this:

I am lisening now to a sevice from a G.O. church in Pittsburgh,and it is very beautiful,but I think there is much more to being a christian than Church services ,and repetition . I see God's work as unfolding in time and the modern world of technology is part of that ,as well as all the others aspects of modern science .I think we can hear and see God in people ,children and nature and we should only go to srvices when we feel it is good for us .There is so much to learn and do while being aware of God's light ,and in His presence .I truly think that it is a mitsake to spend time in worshipping God in a way which is not compatible with our personal needs at a given time .Studying ,higher learning can bepart of 'communion' with God .

The work that I have done , using knowledge from India ,proves to me that God uses cycles of time in human 'evolution' ,just as He does in other areas of nature and life .The churches never talk of this ,but .........
In our 'spiritual evolution' we need to go through many different expériences .I believe without question in Jesus as God, and He has proven Himself faithful , but I had to leave the Church (RC) to find that ,and although I would go to services from time to time ,I will not become an adherent of any church .