Domestic Discipline

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Latreia

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andiesmama said:
It may be accepted in many countries, but that doesn't make it right IMO. I guess it's a personal choice, but I think there's a big...huge...GIGANTIC difference between DD and submission.

I don't have to be beaten or "disciplined" in any other way to be submissive to my DH.

Just my 2 cents....



:doh: Guess what? This concept is ancient and accepted world-wide now.

For centuries, worldwide, Muslim wives have been and are now tragically acquainted with "Domestic Discipline" In countries that have muslim law, called Sharia, it is perfectly legal for a muslim husband to maim, torture, and/or brutally murder his wife for any reason he can think of. They call it "honor killing" because when a muslim male is upset with his wife, he can't have any personal honor unless he destroys her.

Does Christianity really want to open that can of worms?

:sick:
 
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lin1235

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Latreia said:
Does Christianity really want to open that can of worms?

:sick:

On the other hand, can we afford not to? I get your point, in the sense that it does not benefit those women if we chat about how horrified we are about it, and we cannot actively do anything about it. But we can actively pray for them and ask God to not only bring these women and their husbands to know Him, but also to open their eyes to the true effects of this aspect of their way of life.

I think our Christianity should challenge us to address the wrongs of the world, not hide from them. Now this is a very sticky issue and so I absolutely get where you're coming from! The world over Christians are horrified at other Christians getting involved in cultural issues, and other Christians are horrified at those who refuse to get involved... so I don't want to get into a debate about what we can or can't do, but I will recommend that we pray!
 
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Mirelys

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This stuff is so scary and wrong.
I don't know anyone who does this, but can you believe that just last year I was seriously considering it?
Perhaps there are healthy people in healthy relationships who decide to do this. I don't know, I've never read any articles on it until today. For sure, neither I nor our relationship was healthy.
There were two reasons I used to think this might be a good thing:
1. Sets limits on his behavior. If there were rules, he could only be mad if I broke the rules. Then at least I would know what I was in trouble for.
2. Sets limits on punishment. After the predetermined punishment was carried out, there would be no more verbal or physical punishment.

Yeppers, I was trying to change an abusive situation into a structured abusive situation. Now who says I'm not organized? :D
 
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searle29678

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There were two reasons I used to think this might be a good thing:
1. Sets limits on his behavior. If there were rules, he could only be mad if I broke the rules. Then at least I would know what I was in trouble for.
2. Sets limits on punishment. After the predetermined punishment was carried out, there would be no more verbal or physical punishment.

I bolded that part because I use this term a lot and it is starting to disturb me. As someone's wife you should be submissive and respectful of your husband but there should not be fear of getting in trouble or 'rules' that you have to follow. I cannot imagine living in a home as an adult and a wife and having a list of things that must do or must not do or else there will be a punishment.
However, just as an example. My husband wanted me to go home after work and pick up his fishing pole. On this particular fishing pole was a lure that he loves very much and when I put the thing in the car it got hung on a 'wave cap' that he had in the backseat. I got so scared of his reaction that I was in tears trying to decide what to salvage. It was so hung up in this thing of his that I had to burn the wave cap to save the lure and spent the rest of the day in agony pondering what I should tell him happened. I find myself coming up with little fibs that make the situation sound as though there were nothing else I could do even though I know it may not make a difference. What would this situation have been like if it were acceptable for my husband to 'punish' me in some way for what happened?
 
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LiberatedChick

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On looking at more of the site I see things like corner-time, spanking to overcome negative behaviours, learn consequences for misbehavior and how the woman might struggle and cry. The way DD is described sounds very much like this guy believes grown women are children and should be treated as such :doh: :mad:
 
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Marie D

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I have grown up in a community that believes in this kind of thing, so I felt it was what a wife had to go through to show she loved her husband. Thankfully God led me to a man who loved me enough that he couldn't do such things, and he stood up against our parents' culture and said this was not how things would be. It's abuse and unGodly to humiliate and hurt the person that the Lord charges you with caring for.
 
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If Not For Grace

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People will use anything to achieve a goal of control, even the Bible.

God is about Love and so is marriage. Non of us should consciously mistreat one another and certainly not spouses.
 
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christalee4

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Marie O'S said:
I have grown up in a community that believes in this kind of thing, so I felt it was what a wife had to go through to show she loved her husband. Thankfully God led me to a man who loved me enough that he couldn't do such things, and he stood up against our parents' culture and said this was not how things would be. It's abuse and unGodly to humiliate and hurt the person that the Lord charges you with caring for.

It seems to be more a cultural than a religious issue. In the Christian faith in regards to submission, some Christians believe in submitting mutually, and some believe in a chain of command style of submission - God, Husband, Wife and Children. But no where does it say that husbands are to physically chastise wives if they don't obey - children, yes, but not the wives.

But what is the origin of the cross-cultural trend of physical abuse? Women are not natural enemies of men and are physically not as strong. Yet, throughout other cultures, including ours, they have been seen as inferior, not worthy, dishonest, untruthful, and lust-provoking. In the Bible, the Apostle Paul's letters about women are often held up as an example sexism in the faith, that promotes that because of woman's original sin as Eve, then she is to be subject to her husband, must be silent, cannot teach. Thomas Aquinas also railed about women, sin, lust and their vanity. But keep in mind that the thinking at the time was fairly typical, and stemmed from earlier Roman and Greek attitudes towards women as well.

I opine that Domestic Discipline, or even strict non-physical discipline in marriage roles is abusive. The issue of physical abuse has raised its ugly head even in the conservative Christian church body - they acknowledge that within some marriage that practice a strict male headship/female submission arrangement, that the man misinterprets his role and becomes dominating and abusive:
http://www.cbmw.org/resources/articles/abuse_statement.php

This link is from the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. I don't agree with their interpretation and philosophy, but if they acknowledge something's wrong, then you know something's not right.
 
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KrazyPhish

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:eek: Just exploring the forums and I came across this thread...

That website is quite... terrifying:o, I was particularly disturbed by the entry titled "Nudity" It goes on to say that 'spanking' a woman when she is naked is a safety issue... that's such crap, it's about humiliation.

If this is what marriage is, I'm never getting involved!
 
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Mirelys

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KrazyPhish said:
If this is what marriage is, I'm never getting involved!

No kidding! There's stuff in these articles that I haven't heard of outside the context of abusive relationships....or POW situations. That's what the forced nudity reminded me of.
 
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Leanna

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MERCY@GRACE said:
Does anyone know a christian who does this in real life? I've never met any, and never heard of DD till message boards. Not really much you can do, when most the church doesn't even know what it is....besides pray for those we 'hear' about!

When I used to post in another section of Christian forums, a year or more back (I had another user name) I met 3 or 4 people who practied DD and also were believers. DD is not forced by the husband, the other partner "wants" it, yes I am not kidding, they WANT to be punished and controlled, and the other partner WANTS to punish and be in control.

Basically IMO they are people who have had rough pasts who need counseling because they are... err... unbalanced. Seriously. I also feel the same way about homosexuality though. I have noticed that all the people I have met who are practicing homosexuality had either or both: bad relationship with same sex parent, and/or sexual abuse in their past. So there's probably some Gating catalysts for DD impulses also.
 
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JimfromOhio

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After many years of struggling spiritual understanding of sexuality in the Christian environment. After learning christian legalist views regarding sex were not from the bible but man made rules similar to Pharisees that had 613 laws to protect Jews from violating God's Laws. I understand that not every sexual preference allowable within marriage. The best way to look at it is like this - as believers, we are called to be pure and holy in our lives. That goes for sexuality, too. Purity and holiness are the result of inward desires. Thus what is sexually right or wrong depend on scriptural principles and the inward desires of both partners. Fantastic lovemaking is based on being a fantastic person. Attitudes are what count. True sexiness and a fantastic sex life depend first upon being a mature, sexy person…build into your mind and heart the following character traits possessed by all great lovers: playfulness, love, knowledge, honesty, creative romance and discipline.

BDSM is a wide category with unclear boundaries; at "low levels" playing at these things is "probably" fine provided both husband and wife enjoy them. But all these things can be, or can become, fetishes, and then they can wrong and sinful for that reason. If S&M is mutually enjoyed and not extreme, biblically there is no reason not to make it a part of a couple's sex life. Reading many Christian Sex Experts' books, they have mentioned that there is no scriptural or scientific reason NOT to do this as long as both partners desire to do and agree to it. This is such a GRAY area. :scratch: :sigh:
 
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Mirelys

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JimfromOhio:

Domestic Discipline isn't the same thing as BDSM though. For one thing...well, look at the OP. The article is saying that women NEED discipline like that in order to be truly women. Also they say it isn't inherently sexual (after looking at some of the other articles, like HECK it isn't! *sarcasm*).
Those who practice BDSM usually see it just as something fun they do.
 
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Leanna

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JimfromOhio said:
BDSM is a wide category with unclear boundaries; at "low levels" playing at these things is "probably" fine provided both husband and wife enjoy them.

If S&M is mutually enjoyed and not extreme, biblically there is no reason not to make it a part of a couple's sex life.

:scratch:

Are we talking about the same thing? Let's get some definitions...

S & M:

Sadism -- 1. The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.

Masochism -- 1. The deriving of sexual gratification, or the tendency to derive sexual gratification, from being physically or emotionally abused. 2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from being humiliated or mistreated, either by another or by oneself.

BDSM stands for Bondage & Discipline / Domination & Submission / Sadism & Masochism


:eek: Yes, I stand by my earlier assessment. People involved probably have likely gone through some gating catalysts and need professional help. God did not make us to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.

In the end, I don't care if the Bible says its a sin, or even if it is a sin.....
 
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Mirelys

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Leanna said:
In the end, I don't care if the Bible says its a sin, or even if it is a sin.....

JimfromOhio said:
Legalism?

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, Leanna.....

JimfromOhio: I think what she is saying is, BDSM stems from and/or fosters emotional unhealthiness. Since the Bible doesn't speak on it, we need to use common sense. It isn't a sin, but if it is damaging it shouldn't be practiced. That's not legalism, just being healthy.

This thread is so going to derail into the ethics of BDSM lol.
 
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JimfromOhio

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All I am saying, its the privacy of a husband and wife that whatever decisions they both enjoy and agree on should be between them and God. Within marriage; one man with one woman. (Mt 19:4-5, 1 Ti 3:2 & 12); We are to lovingly meet the legitimate sexual needs and wants of our spouse. (1 Co 7:3-5); Love for our spouse, and respect for the bodies and minds God created, requires us to avoid anything which can cause serious problems: (Eph 5:29 & 33, 1 Co 6:19): physically, medically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually & relationally. In my belief, anything that does not violate these principles should be okay within the marriage bed. It's important that our sexual activities benefit a couple's sense of intimacy and oneness as a couple. We should never push our spouse to compromise their beliefs. (Ro 14:1 & 14 & 23); We are not to be controlled by anything. (1 Co 6:12 & 10:23). While the Bible may not speak of certain issues, sexual relationship between a married couple has effects on bodies, minds, and emotions (and spirits) that no other sex act can match.

Sexuality is God-given and it is to be enjoyed and used fully as part of a loving relationship - an expression of the love, care and oneness of the couple. Couples must communicate and talk about their innermost fears (and likes & dislikes). Each partner can expect regular sexual activity, as a God-given right. Sexual activity must be mutually agreed upon beforehand with a good heart. A good marital relationship is based upon pleasing each other, being sexuality sensitive and tuned-in to each other’s emotional – as well as – sexual needs.

The bottom line, if one spouse don't like it, then don't do it. Its personal rather than legalism.
 
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