Does this impact your belief regarding the Omniscience of God

[98cwitr]

30 “The people of Israel and Judah have done nothing but evil in my sight from their youth; indeed, the people of Israel have done nothing but arouse my anger with what their hands have made, declares the Lord. 31 From the day it was built until now, this city has so aroused my anger and wrath that I must remove it from my sight. 32 The people of Israel and Judah have provoked me by all the evil they have done—they, their kings and officials, their priests and prophets, the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem. 33 They turned their backs to me and not their faces; though I taught them again and again, they would not listen or respond to discipline. 34 They set up their vile images in the house that bears my Name and defiled it. 35 They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

If it never entered God's mind that they would do this, does that not challenge our understanding of His Omniscience?

 

[Bluelion]

If it never entered God's mind that they would do this, does that not challenge our understanding of His Omniscience?

You ok 98 you seem to be losing faith?

Why not say i don't understand instead of reasoning God must not be this or that, that has already be well established that He is this.

It never enter my mind, if i said that i would mean could not bare such a thought, not that i did not know. Try the NLT. It would also help if you quoted book and chapter.

 

[98cwitr]

You ok 98 you seem to be losing faith?

Why not say i don't understand instead of reasoning God must not be this or that, that has already be well established that He is this.

It never enter my mind, if i said that i would mean could not bare such a thought, not that i did not know. Try the NLT. It would also help if you quoted book and chapter.

Losing my faith? Most certainly not friend!

I am just asking questions and yes some of them bug even myself. I am still putting all the pieces together surrounding the level and depth of the Omniscience of God and of course want to use Scripture and prayer and the people of CF to do it. Let me tell you, if it wasn't for divine foreknowledge, I definitely could believe in free will...I tell you I kinda want to believe in free will...but it simply cannot be if God has complete foreknowledge.

 

[Bluelion]

Losing my faith? Most certainly not friend!

I am just asking questions and yes some of them bug even myself. I am still putting all the pieces together surrounding the level and depth of the Omniscience of God and of course want to use Scripture and prayer and the people of CF to do it. Let me tell you, if it wasn't for divine foreknowledge, I definitely could believe in free will...I tell you I kinda want to believe in free will...but it simply cannot be if God has complete foreknowledge.

How so? Because God knows what a person will do a person can not have free will. That makes no sense. God does not force people to do anything unless they are His. I believe Free will is to a point, we can chose God or not. If we chose Him i do not believe in free will necessarily after that. Paul often referred to Him self as a slave of God. Slaves have no free will. But I think as Adam and Eve had the choice to eat the fruit or not to, We have the same choice with the second Adam, Jesus. Only this time God is the fruit and Life, We can eat from the tree or not.

 

[mikedsjr]

98, it seems to me the passage is saying, "nor did it enter my mind to command them". I could be wrong.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If it never entered God's mind that they would do this, does that not challenge our understanding of His Omniscience?

It says that it never entered God's mind that they should do it (though you might be right about the actual intended meaning of the verse). There are actually a few verses in the Bible that imply a lack of omniscience, but I've always seen it as a figure of speech.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

How so? Because God knows what a person will do a person can not have free will. That makes no sense. God does not force people to do anything unless they are His. I believe Free will is to a point, we can chose God or not. If we chose Him i do not believe in free will necessarily after that. Paul often referred to Him self as a slave of God. Slaves have no free will. But I think as Adam and Eve had the choice to eat the fruit or not to, We have the same choice with the second Adam, Jesus. Only this time God is the fruit and Life, We can eat from the tree or not.

^^ so much this.

Just because God knows what your gonna choose,doesn't mean He forced that choice.

Cheers

 

[twin1954]

First of all you need to step back and realize that God's foreknowledge isn't the same as foresight. Every time the word foreknow or foreknowledge is used it is always in reference to people not things. He foreknows people not what they will do.

Still He does know what they will do because He has foreordained and knows the end from the beginning. God is a God of purpose and brings to pass all that He had determined beforehand to do. He foresees because He has foreordained.

Moreover He doesn't need to look down through time to foresee what will happen as He is not bound by time. If He looked down through time to see what will happen then He is not God omniscient. That would be God learning something that He didn't already know and that destroys His Godhood.

All of His wondrous attributes must work together in perfect unison. His wisdom and power guide His love and mercy. His omniscience, knowing every outcome of every circumstance and influence, directs His wisdom. He is a complete and supreme God who needs nothing from us and is completely satisfied in Himself.

 

[98cwitr]

twin, your 3rd sentence seems to conflict with the rest of your post...could you elaborate or explain plz?

 

[98cwitr]

^^ so much this.

Just because God knows what your gonna choose,doesn't mean He forced that choice.

Cheers

But by knowing all your choices, and Him deciding to create you, doesn't that mean He then foreordained those choices [ie: your actions, whether good or bad]?

 

[Bluelion]

But by knowing all your choices, and Him deciding to create you, doesn't that mean He then foreordained those choices [ie: your actions, whether good or bad]?

So if i know some one will steal and do not psychically stop them i approved or made them steal? I force them to steal because I did not psychically stop them? That is not reason or a logic.

 

[royal priest]

If it never entered God's mind that they would do this, does that not challenge our understanding of His Omniscience?

It can be daunting when exploring the doctrine of God. Especially since as chapter 2.1 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith both state that “The Lord our God is… without body, parts, or passions.”
As God is such a transcendent being, it is impossible for us creatures to fully comprehend the uncreated One. Therefore, God often uses language of accommodation in order to communicate to us what what He is "feeling" or "thinking". Whenever you encounter texts that speak of God as resting, repenting, sitting, walking, seeing, hearing, reaching, etc... think of it as Him speaking to us in baby talk.

 

[98cwitr]

So if i know some one will steal and do not psychically stop them i approved or made them steal? I force them to steal because I did not psychically stop them? That is not reason or a logic.

Out of context. Did you also create this person with complete foreknowledge of all their actions?

 

[98cwitr]

It can be daunting when exploring the doctrine of God. Especially since as chapter 2.1 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession of Faith both state that “The Lord our God is… without body, parts, or passions.”
As God is such a transcendent being, it is impossible for us creatures to fully comprehend the uncreated One. Therefore, God often uses language of accommodation in order to communicate to us what what He is "feeling" or "thinking". Whenever you encounter texts that speak of God as resting, repenting, sitting, walking, seeing, hearing, reaching, etc... think of it as Him speaking to us in baby talk.

Excellent point sir. I had that very thought myself, but also conceded that God would not lie to us, even in our own language.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

But by knowing all your choices, and Him deciding to create you, doesn't that mean He then foreordained those choices [ie: your actions, whether good or bad]?

Precisely,seems to match Scripture doesn't it?

God allows (forordains) these things to happen (just like Scripture says,He's forordained us since before the beggining of time) and He knows what we're gonna do,thus making Him omniscient, but at the same time,He's given us free will to choose our choice,but since we've theoretically,already made the choice (since God knows it) we are destined (preordained) to fulfill that which God knows we will choose out off free will.

Boy,that's a mouthfull,but it tends to all match up...

In the end,we don't and can't fully understand God's will.

The Bible says both predestination and free will Is present in our lives... the exact details remain unclear to us but it is there nonetheless.

Who is to judge what is right though eh? As Scripture says,does not the potter have the right to make some modest jars,that his excellent jars might stand out brilliantly? I know,not exactly a word for word,and I'm not sure its used in correct context,but surely my point is driven home...

Cheers!

 

[Bluelion]

Out of context. Did you also create this person with complete foreknowledge of all their actions?

The logic is the same.

 

[Bluelion]

The logic is the same.

and you have yet to prove God created them.

 

[twin1954]

twin, your 3rd sentence seems to conflict with the rest of your post...could you elaborate or explain plz?

Certainly. God does not need to look down through time to foresee because He has foreordained what will happen. All the He has purposed shall come to pass and that is how He knows the end from the beginning not by looking and learning but by determining before what will happen.

 

[98cwitr]

Certainly. God does not need to look down through time to foresee because He has foreordained what will happen. All the He has purposed shall come to pass and that is how He knows the end from the beginning not by looking and learning but by determining before what will happen.

I am in complete agreement. Thank you.

 

[98cwitr]

Precisely,seems to match Scripture doesn't it?

God allows (forordains) these things to happen (just like Scripture says,He's forordained us since before the beggining of time) and He knows what we're gonna do,thus making Him omniscient, but at the same time,He's given us free will to choose our choice,but since we've theoretically,already made the choice (since God knows it) we are destined (preordained) to fulfill that which God knows we will choose out off free will.

Boy,that's a mouthfull,but it tends to all match up...

In the end,we don't and can't fully understand God's will.

The Bible says both predestination and free will Is present in our lives... the exact details remain unclear to us but it is there nonetheless.

Who is to judge what is right though eh? As Scripture says,does not the potter have the right to make some modest jars,that his excellent jars might stand out brilliantly? I know,not exactly a word for word,and I'm not sure its used in correct context,but surely my point is driven home...

Cheers!

Then free isn't really free in a literal sense, is it?