DOES the sinners prayer make you BORN AGAIN ???

[ralangley]

For years I saw my duty as a pastor was to evangelize people and I geared our Sunday services to reeling in the lost. But as I began to see salvation as a process, a journey, I settled down to simply teach the Word (which is, as I understand it, evangelism in its purest form) and leave the salving to the Holy Spirit. What I have seen in the years I have practiced a no-altar-call (sans sinner’s prayer) approach to doing church is that over time I see people change. They may come to us hardened or worldly or injured but in time they are “sanctified” (as unbelieving husbands are sanctified by believing wives) in a more stable manner than they used to be when we called them to the altar and they exhibited sorrow (thanks to a heart-rending story from the pulpit or a tear-jerking song from the organist) but often without repentance.

I think this is one of the reasons why church revival campaigns (you know, those events complete with professional evangelists and song leaders, ballyhoo and publicity) do not produce lasting results. There is a lot of motion—people come weeping to altars, crowds fill the pews, excitement is in the air—but little progress. Personally, I have seen very little lasting results for all the effort and money I have thrown at revival meetings over the past four decades of ministry. I am sitting here trying to think of one single person who was added to any church I pastored as the fruit of a “revival” and can’t recall a single one. I am sure there is, but I cannot recall one.

On the other hand, I know of several active members of our present church who came to us in the past three or four years who were very rough around the edges, some bitter and hurt, whose lives have remarkably changed for no other reason than they have received life through the body of Christ, almost by osmosis.

Churches that may not appear “evangelistic” because they do not sponsor evangelistic campaigns or have altar calls every Sunday may still be evangelistic because lives change in a more subtle manner than the more overtly evangelistic ones. The Holy Spirit does not need the sinner's prayer or an altar call to save people. IMO.

~N. D. Structable

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

You make some excellent points. It may be though, that even those who are gradually becoming "saved" through an osmosis process, need at one point, to publicly declare their allegiance to Christ. There is great power in confession. There is great power in coming forward, raising a hand, getting down on knees or in some visible manner demonstrating something new has happened. We typically rejoice in pregnancies, but the day a baby actually enters into the world, is the day we celebrate and remember for life. To me, it would be a shame to not offer that great opportunity to step forward as a new child in Christ. Some may not need it, but others will remember that day forever.

 

[JimB]

I think they do declare their faith more by their deeds than their words in the formal way many evangelical churches require them to do it, publicly in front of an audience.

When a person comes to faith in Christ only God knows. Looking back on my life, I believe I came to faith more gradually than I once thought. I would have told you I “got saved” on Sunday about noon, February 2, 1964, because that’s when the floodgates opened and I knelt and prayed. But I think it all began about six months earlier. I was just preconditioned to think I had to do it in a certain way—lift my hand while heads were bowed, after an invitation given by a preacher, with dramatic effects (a story, hymn, and organ), in church, on Sunday.

Paul came to Christ in a dramatic moment but he had been kicking against the pricks for months, possibly years. When exactly did he come to faith in Christ? Was it an event or a journey? I think a case could be made for both.

~Ho Lin Wun

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

For years I saw my duty as a pastor was to evangelize people and I geared our Sunday services to reeling in the lost. But as I began to see salvation as a process, a journey, I settled down to simply teach the Word (which is, as I understand it, evangelism in its purest form) and leave the salving to the Holy Spirit. What I have seen in the years I have practiced a no-altar-call (sans sinner’s prayer) approach to doing church is that over time I see people change. They may come to us hardened or worldly or injured but in time they are “sanctified” (as unbelieving husbands are sanctified by believing wives) in a more stable manner than they used to be when we called them to the altar and they exhibited sorrow (thanks to a heart-rending story from the pulpit or a tear-jerking song from the organist) but often without repentance.

I think this is one of the reasons why church revival campaigns (you know, those events complete with professional evangelists and song leaders, ballyhoo and publicity) do not produce lasting results. There is a lot of motion—people come weeping to altars, crowds fill the pews, excitement is in the air—but little progress. Personally, I have seen very little lasting results for all the effort and money I have thrown at revival meetings over the past four decades of ministry. I am sitting here trying to think of one single person who was added to any church I pastored as the fruit of a “revival” and can’t recall a single one. I am sure there is, but I cannot recall one.

On the other hand, I know of several active members of our present church who came to us in the past three or four years who were very rough around the edges, some bitter and hurt, whose lives have remarkably changed for no other reason than they have received life through the body of Christ, almost by osmosis.

Churches that may not appear “evangelistic” because they do not sponsor evangelistic campaigns or have altar calls every Sunday may still be evangelistic because lives change in a more subtle manner than the more overtly evangelistic ones. The Holy Spirit does not need the sinner's prayer or an altar call to save people. IMO.

~N. D. Structable

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

I agree

 

[ralangley]

,,,,Looking back on my life, I believe I came to faith more gradually than I once thought. I would have told you I “got saved” on Sunday about noon, February 2, 1964, because that’s when the floodgates opened and I knelt and prayed. But I think it all began about six months earlier. I was just preconditioned to think I had to do it in a certain way—lift my hand while heads were bowed, after an invitation given by a preacher, with dramatic effects (a story, hymn, and organ), in church, on Sunday.

Paul came to Christ in a dramatic moment but he had been kicking against the pricks for months, possibly years. When exactly did he come to faith in Christ? Was it an event or a journey? I think a case could be made for both.

~Ho Lin Wun

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

I see your point. However, it seems to me that a great event happened in your life, Groundhog's Day, 1964. God may have called you, pestered you, softened your heart for months, years even, but one day, you decided to bow your head and submit your life to Christ. It was an event, one you will hopefully remember forever.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I see your point. However, it seems to me that a great event happened in your life, Groundhog's Day, 1964. God may have called you, pestered you, softened your heart for months, years even, but one day, you decided to bow your head and submit your life to Christ. It was an event, one you will hopefully remember forever.

This is very true in how you put it. The scriptures, the gospel, never says that God working in you is what saves you. It never says God softening you up is what saves you. It never says that if pricks come your way for months, you are saved. It never says that God calling you and you hearing him is what saves you. It never says that the urging of the Holy Spirit is what saves you. It never says that the Holy Spirit tugging on your heart is what saves you.

It says:
Romans 10:9-10, That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Why people want to throw this out the window all because people have made them feel uncomfortable with it is beyond me.

Now apparently we must question this all because some here feel unconfortable or bitter about pastors who have had the audacity to ask people to come to the alter and say a prayer, the horror! It really doesn't matter how it's done as long as it's done in the way scripture says it can only be done.

I was alone in my bedroom when I talked to God, confessed my belief in him and asked him to come in. That is when I was saved! I however will never accuse or criticize anyone for helping people along in doing this, even a preacher who uses organ music and other dramatic effects.

I agree it shouldn't be taught that it can only happen in a church, but a person has to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe in their heart that God raised him from the dead. Whether they are in church, in a parking lot, at work or at home alone, it doesn't matter.

 

[IowaPastor]

"only" baptism? The only thing "only" baptism gets you is wet!

Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. It breaks my heart to have people think that they are "saved" because they've been baptized. Jesus saves...

Ideally, baptism is an outward sign of an inner reality. And in the Methodist tradition, it's a means of grace.

Be Blessed...

 

[whatfor]

If nothing else, this thread is bringing back great memories of that day , thanks

 

[enoch son]

Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. It breaks my heart to have people think that they are "saved" because they've been baptized. Jesus saves...

Ideally, baptism is an outward sign of an inner reality. And in the Methodist tradition, it's a means of grace.

Be Blessed...

NO IT'S MAN'S WHY FOR PORCLIAMING THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH ON SOMEBODY GOD LOVES. IT'S MAN WAY OF TAKING THE FALSE PRIDE OF AUTHORITY OVER ANOTHER BEING. GOD DID NOT GIVE MAN RULE OVER ANOTHER BEING TILL AFTER THE FALL. IT'S THE NATURE OF THE FRIST ADAM.

 

[mrhappy3]

If nothing else, this thread is bringing back great memories of that day , thanks

Pleasure - however it happened !