Does the Bible 'truly' teach us 'not to judge'?

[Neogaia777]

If you really think hard and deep about it, every, and I mean every single word almost that comes out of our mouth is a judgment... Even the most well intentioned things... Trying to teach someone something for example, your judging that they do not know it, and your judging that they need this knowledge from you, judging that they lack it... Even trying to help people with your words by encouragement perhaps, your judging that they need encouragement, your judging that they lack the ability to encourage theirself, and your judging that they "need you" and your help, and your judging perhaps, that they will continue to be down without your encouragement...

I try not to judge anyone, with anything that I haven't already been judged by myself... Especially correcting someone about something... I try to be sure that I have already received that correction in my life, and have corrected the problem, before I try and correct anyone else about it... And, if I do this, I try to tell them I only "know" because I "used to" have the same problem and was affected/infected by/with the same thing... Kinda like removing the rafter from your own eye, before trying to remove the speck in your brother's eye kinda thing...

God Bless!

 

[bcbsr]

Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not ...
... "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not
be condemned. ... "Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. ...
//biblehub.com/luke/6-37.htm - 16k

John 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge ...
... Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” ... ...
//biblehub.com/john/7-24.htm - 15k

Just to mention a couple of verses you quoted. First of all the Luke 6:37 is speaking proverbially. That is it is speaking of a truism of human nature, namely "if you judge others, they will judge you." Try it. It works.

Secondly the John 7:24 instructs to make a right judgement and therefore is condoning judging others.

Thirdly "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment" 1Co 2:15

The unspiritual don't practice discernment and so are gullible to fall into heresies, such as Catholicism.

Jesus judged people and so did his apostle. The unspiritual teach not to follow Jesus' example and that of his apostles, and so hope to get away with spread false ideas.

 

[MountainPine]

We are also instructed to 'obey the laws of the land'.

Sorry, that "verse" is nowhere found in scripture. God's Law is the only Law we are to obey.

 

[MountainPine]

Romans 13 only applied to the Roman Christians who lived in the time and place the book was written to. Obviously our government, or any modern government, is not "ordained by God" or ruled by "God's ministers" as our government is made up by Satan-worshiping politicians who lie, cheat and murder. Can you honestly say that a government who makes gay marriage and abortion legal, and renders interest-accruing debt on Americans (Ezekiel 18:13) to be "ordained by God"? Do you honestly believe that Barack Obama is God's minister? Would you say the same about Communist governments? Do you think Kim Jung-Un is God's minister?

 

[RDKirk]

No, the Bible tells us not to take a 'brother or sister' in Christ to 'worldly courts'. So far as the 'rest of the world', the Bible offers no such instruction. In other words, if someone, (let's say a 'company'), tries to cheat you, there is nothing in the Bible that instructs us to simply 'let' them take advantage of us. We are also instructed not to 'cast' our pearls before the swine.

We are also instructed to 'obey the laws of the land'. Assuming that the 'laws' of the land are not in contradiction to the Bible.

So in 'our land', the manner we seek 'protection' is through the courts. So long as we are not 'suing' a 'brother or sister' in Christ, nothing offered in the Bible precludes 'suing' 'those of this world'. Just be sure you are 'suing' for the 'proper reason' and not trying to 'cheat' someone by doing so.

Blessings,

MEC

I don't disagree with you, but I'd also say be sure that when someone of the world is offending you, be sure you've taken that matter to the Lord to know whether that's the route the Lord intends you to take for relief or for His greater purpose. It might be--as Paul did a couple of times.

But on one occasion in my experience, rather than take an offending military superior "to court" (appealing to a higher official), the Lord instructed me to take him as a "froward master" and obey him in Christ. The end result of that--and it took nearly three years to reach that result--turned out to elevate my status far beyond anything I could have achieved by fighting.

 

[RDKirk]

Don't be 'sorry'. But don't be confused or misled either. While the 'exact words' that I offered do not exist in the Bible, here is what DOES exist in the Bible:

Romans 13 (KJV)
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Something I've observed:

The Body of Christ perseveres and even grows--consistently--when in a national state of order. If the national state of order is oppressive, the Church may grow more slowly, but it grows. Contrariwise, if the national state is one of chaos, the Church doesn't grow at all.

So we see in Imperial Rome, even during times of the most severe oppression, the Church grew to the point that Constantine could not ignore it. Constantine had personally witnessed the most severe oppression of Christians under Domitian and must have observed that it didn't work.

North Korea is the most oppressively orderly national society in the world today. The Kim dynasty has brutally sought to exterminate Christianity using horrible means beyond the imaginations of most moral individuals. A military intelligence report I read in the mid 90s about the treatment of Christians in North Korean prisons read like the script of an ultra-violent horror movie. Prison guards were actually decorated for conceiving of the most evil things possible to do to Christian men and women and their children.

In the mid-90s, we estimated there were between 5,000 and 10,000 Christians in North Korea. Today, despite a continuance of such oppression, we estimate about 50,000 Christians in North Korea. Most of the growth of the Church in North Korea comes from the evangelism of Christians from China--which is also an oppressive--but orderly--society.

Recently, Kim Jong Un has decided, "If you can't exterminate 'em, co-opt 'em" and has organized a North Korean Orthodox Church in an attempt to get Christians to identify themselves and be more easily controlled. I'm not sure most Christians in North Korea are going to leap for that, though.

But compare the growth of the Church in oppressive--but orderly--nations to that to some place wrought by disorder, a non-functional government, wandering armies committing murder and rape, like south Sudan...the growth and operation of the Church is hampered in an utterly dysfunctional society.

I'm not saying that oppression per se is necessary (although I'd argue that when the Church is truly being the Church, it will be in tension with any worldly government), but I am saying that a well-ordered state is a useful environment for the working of the Holy Spirit even if it's oppressive.

A pastor has written, "Satan moves most easily under the veil of chaos." And scripture says, "God is not the author of confusion."

Because God is not the author of confusion, Romans 13 should be understood in the light that order works best for the Holy Spirit and thus Christians should not seek to be unnecessary disruptions of a government that is maintaining order.

 

[redblue22]

Most of my questions went unanswered here. So, I do not think it is reasonable to think that I am going to gain much from this thread or feel I should judge anyone. I feel a sense here that there is judgment and impatience in listening to others. I was told my feelings were not truth and that my questions didn't matter or were ignored.

In the bible I mostly notice that it is judges who are judged. I also gather that we are to regard others as more important. I think that the word "judge" is being used in different senses throughout this thread. Some of the comments might be easier to accept if all the uses of the word "judge" were replaced with other words meaning the intention.

I find the experience of judging to be boring. I don't enjoy judging and I don't enjoy hearing someone else judge.

I have noticed a pattern of judgmental people. They start with telling me their judgments on others. They definitely think themselves superior and cut ties with that person they judged. I predict that they will eventually judge me and cut ties. And one day they judge me and cut ties.

Carry on with your judging.

 

[redblue22]

a few other things might help too.

1. instead of using the word "judge" explain the meaning of your use of the word. I think a lot of these posts are not using the word "judge" in the same way.

2. I am working on stuff by Luke and John. Anything there to support your positions?

3. What is the purpose of all this judging? Why throw them out of your church? Why stop being friends with them? Why tell others about your judgment?


Then again, it might take a lot to convince me that judging is good and trusting anyone else to be judge of me. People like to hurt other people, and judging is one of their favorite weapons.

 

[1213]

...
The Bible does NOT teach us 'not to judge'. It teaches us not to 'falsely judge'. In fact, the Bible teaches us to 'judge all things' according to 'righteousness' or 'truth'.

So where does this insistence come from when some insist that we are 'not to judge'?...

I think it would be better to ask, does Bible really tell us that we are the judges and we should judge? After all, Bible tells that judges were charged by God:

I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brothers, and judge righteously between a man and his brother, and the foreigner who is living with him. You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small and the great alike; you shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.
Deuteronomy 1:16-17

Not all are charged to be judges. For example, the high priests during Jesus time, because they didn’t have right to judge Jesus:

Pilate therefore said to them, "Take him yourselves, and judge him according to your law." Therefore the Jews said to him, "It is not lawful for us to put anyone to death,"
John 18:31

So, can we really say that God has charged us to be judges? If not, then it is maybe better not to judge. But even if you judge, be ready to be judged the same way as you judge.

 

[MountainPine]

Again you err.

The government at the 'time of Christ', Christ openly criticized for being 'corrupt'. Yet Christ still supported 'following it' so far as 'paying taxes' and even accepting it's unrighteous sentence upon Himself.

Absolutely. For the Bible tells us that there is 'no power' on Earth that is 'not' ordained by God. That means that if God 'desired' or if 'His will' was that such powers 'cease to exist', it would simply be a matter of eliminating them. Since they 'exist', it is obviously 'His will'.

What you fail to accept or recognize is that 'free will' can't be 'eliminated' in order to exist. And the 'greatest gift' God gave us upon 'creation' was 'free will'.

Is 'free will' always practiced 'responsibly'? Nope. We see all around us 'free will' being abused. And when that 'free will' is 'so' abusive God is no longer willing to 'ordain it', He ends it.

The Hebrews are a 'prime example'. It was God's will that they be 'slaves' to the Egyptians. Otherwise they would 'not have been slaves to the Egyptians. But when He decided to 'end' their slavery, He did.

It is no different with the 'powers that be' presently. If 'abortion' was something God wasn't willing to endure, it would 'cease' to exist.

You seem to be more concerned with how 'you perceive' things to be rather than 'how things truly 'are'. Everything that happens is 'God's will' or it 'couldn't happen'. It is 'God's will' that Satan have dominion over this planet. If it weren't, Satan wouldn't.

You cannot 'tell me' what may result in God 'allowing abortion'. For you don't have the ability to 'tell me'. You are 'not God' and therefore incapable of even making 'judgement' concerning 'abortion'. Certainly not capable of making 'judgement' of abortion according to God's understanding. If so, show me. Prove to me that 'you' are capable of discernment on this issue according to the understanding of God.

What if it were God's will that abortion be 'legal' in America simply to keep ONE person from being 'born'. That God were willing to suffer the deaths of ten million innocents in order to prevent ONE person from being born?

So you see, you are incapable of making such judgements.

You are certainly able to discern your 'own feelings' or 'beliefs' concerning 'abortion'. But you cannot tell me or anyone else 'why' God 'puts up with it'. Why He 'allows it'. Why it is His will that abortion exists.

Blessings,

MEC

Let me ask you this: when the "law of the land" requires everyone to worship the Beast and receive his mark, are you going to do so because you think that's what God wants you to do?

 

[redblue22]

Let's see. There is an inability to answer basic questions of one's theory. Or there is an unwillingness to. So, either one is unable to understand one's own belief--or one views his or her own belief as unimportant. In either case, those who are learning should not place too much weight on a belief that is undeveloped and/or unimportant. Secondly, there awaits accusation and unwillingness to listen to those who believe to some degree of difference. Also a bad sign. Finally, it appears those presenting are more interested in arguing and accusing than actually helping a student who wishes to learn.

 

[redblue22]

big talkers.

 

[redblue22]

maybe I'm just too impatient. or maybe Imagicon is teaching judgment through example?

 

[Neogaia777]

You could always try judging by telling a story, saying for example: "There was a man..." Or, "I knew a man..." such and such...ect... Or, " A farmer, or a king had "such and such", and did "such and such", and "such and such", happened.." Asking "them" what "they" thought or how "they" would judge the tale... And responding to them according to how they judged it... Not directly judging anyone, but leaving it up to them to decide where they were or how they related to the tale/example... and perhaps themselves in it... And responding accordingly... perhaps pointing out how they just judged themselves in it...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Let me ask you this: when the "law of the land" requires everyone to worship the Beast and receive his mark, are you going to do so because you think that's what God wants you to do?

That's an excellent Question, especially with what the Bible has to say about submitting and being in subjection to the authorities or governments in place... Have to think about that one...?

God Bless!

 

[Radrook]

If by judging you mean evaluating something as either right or wrong, no, we are not prohibited from exercising our moral-evaluation faculties. However, there are matters which only God is qualified to judge and those are the ones that we should refrain from judging and leave totally in his jurisdiction.

 

[SolomonVII]

Sometimes I get the impression that the reason that people are so committed to the 'judge not lest ye be judged' axiom because there is the possibility in that idea that we are getting a 'get out of jail free card' in regard to our own sins. As long as we obstinately refuse to acknowledge looking at someone else's sins, then maybe God will just as obstinately refuse to look at our own.

 

[Neogaia777]

Sometimes I get the impression that the reason that people are so committed to the 'judge not lest ye be judged' axiom because there is the possibility in that idea that we are getting a 'get out of jail free card' in regard to our own sins. As long as we obstinately refuse to acknowledge looking at someone else's sins, then maybe God will just as obstinately refuse to look at our own.

We judge... it's inevitable, it's unavoidable, we would have to not speak to anyone at all, "ever", if we truly did not, or were not judging at all... What's important is this: "Be careful, for in that way in which you are judging, you will be judged yourself..." And "By your own words you shall live, or by your own words you will be condemned (judged)(die)..." There are things that we "should judge" and speak against, that many of us do not, most often out of fear, or lack of care (love)...

It is important to be "wise" and judge with righteous judgment, first expending all avenues of doing so in a spirit of gentleness, meekness, mildness, kindness, humbleness and humility... When that doesn't work, or fails, and those methods are exhausted, then and only then, using stronger, bolder, and braver and "stronger" methods...

Making sure that "in that things in which you are judging, expecting to be judged or live or die by it yourself" If you are judging another in things which you "already" have been judged and corrected by, you can judge that matter, but, it's perhaps very much more helpful and useful, if you let them know that...

God Bless!

 

[Inkfingers]

It seems that every time someone tries to point out the 'truth', inevitably someone else comes along and accuses them of 'false judgment'.

The Bible does NOT teach us 'not to judge'. It teaches us not to 'falsely judge'. In fact, the Bible teaches us to 'judge all things' according to 'righteousness' or 'truth'.

So where does this insistence come from when some insist that we are 'not to judge'?

It originated with the 'churches' that were not teaching the 'truth'. They didn't want the congregation to 'judge them' according to 'righteousness, (the truth), so they taught their followers 'not to judge PERIOD'.

And that is 'the' reason that so many today insist that we 'not judge'. Because that way they can interject any sort of 'nonsense' and insist that it's the 'truth'. So long as no one 'judges' what they 'say', they can convince themselves that whatever nonsense they 'make up' is as valid as anything else people 'believe'.

I encourage any and EVERYONE that reads anything I offer to 'judge it' according to the Bible. Not what 'your church' teaches you, but what we are offered in the Bible. Don't take 'my word' for 'anything'. Judge each and everything I offer according to 'scripture'.

Yet some continually insist that they should be able to speak with impunity so far as 'judgement' is concerned. That in order to determine the 'truth' of what they 'say' no one should 'judge' their words. That's ridiculous. We are to 'judge ALL things according to righteousness', (The Truth).

Blessings,

MEC

We are told to judge righteously and to please the Lord, not hypocritically.

People who say "Judge not, period" are taking two words out of the context of many tens of thousands.