baberean 2,
I don't have time to get to you but I will be back.
Suffice to say you are still miscontruing what I have said.
Replacement Theology is you because you want the church to fulfill the callings of Israel.
I have never said the modern state of Israel replaces the church of Jesus Christ. They each have specific callings. Israel's earthly calling is to be at the head of the nations. The church age saints and old testament and tribulation saints earthly calling is to be kings, priests and rulers in the kingdom. Jerry kelso
Replacement Theology:
The term “Replacement Theology” has come into common use by modern theologians. We will attempt to examine the claims of two different forms of Replacement Theology based solely on what is written in the text of scripture without adding to, taking out, changing, or ignoring anything in the text.
Any conflict produced in the text reveals the problems in any system of interpretation.
The most common use of the term “Replacement Theology” usually makes a claim similar to the following…
“The Gentile Church has replaced Israel in God’s Plan.”
Does this claim match up to scripture? First of all, is the Church as a whole a Gentile Church? On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as “men of Judea”, then as “men of Israel” and in Acts 2:36 he says, “let all the house of Israel know…”. On that day 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant of Christ promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and found fulfilled at Hebrews 8:6-13. We know that during the first few years of the Church it was made up mainly of Israelites. Paul makes it clear in Romans 11:11 that he is an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. Even today, the Church continues to be made up of those from both Israelite and Gentile bloodlines. Therefore, this claim falls apart at its beginning, since the Church today is not a Gentile Church.
Roman chapter 11 was written by the Apostle Paul to make it clear that God has not rejected the Israelite people. In Romans 11 we find Gentile branches grafted in among the branches of Israelites who accepted Christ. In this chapter Paul uses the Olive Tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church of Christ. Those Israelites who rejected Christ were the branches broken off. However, they can be grafted back into the Olive Tree through faith in Christ. This is the Gk. “houto” manner of their salvation found in verse 26. In Romans 11:27 we find a reference to the New Covenant fulfilled at Calvary when Christ paid the sin debt of all races of people. In Hebrews 13:20 we find it is an “everlasting” covenant.
Therefore, this most common example of Replacement Theology does not match up to scripture and must be rejected.
Is there a second form of Replacement Theology which usually makes a claim similar to the following?
“The Church is a parenthesis in God’s plan and the Church Age will end 7 years before the Second Coming of Christ at the Pretrib Rapture of the Church. Then God will go back to dealing with the modern nation of Israel under the Old Covenant system during a future 70th week of Daniel. During this time 144,000 Jewish evangelists will be sent out to the whole world.”
Will the modern nation of Israel will replace the Church in God’s plan of salvation for a period of 7 years? Will modern Jews be saved through the Old Covenant system during this time?
This system of Bible interpretation was brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War. A few decades later it was incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible and has since spread through much of the American evangelical Church. Many popular evangelical pastors on Television and in the pulpit now promote this system. Why do those promoting this newer system often fail to reveal the source of this fairly recent doctrine? Millions of those sitting in the pews of the modern evangelical Church have no idea that John Darby brought this system of interpretation to our nation less than 200 years ago.
Do the claims of John Darby’s system match the text of scripture?
In order to make this system work a number of claims must be made in order to make the system produce the final result.
Claim: “The Church made up of Jewish and Gentile believers was a “mystery” not revealed in the Old Testament.”
It may have been a mystery to most of those in the Old Testament. However, the Apostle Paul reveals it was not a mystery to Hosea.
Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew
his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called,
not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As
he saith also in Osee,
I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26
And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
We also have the New Covenant promised at Jeremiah 31:31-34 and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13. The Book of Hebrews is mainly about the relationship between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant and the struggle of those who wanted to go back to the Old Covenant. Are there some today who are still trying to go back to the Old Covenant?
The ESV version reveals the following references to the New Covenant in the New Testament.
Luk_22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the
new covenant in my blood.
1Co_11:25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the
new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
2Co_3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a
new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Heb_8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a
new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
Heb_8:13 In speaking of a
new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb_9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a
new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Heb_12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a
new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Was the New Covenant Church revealed in the Old Testament?
Claim: The “Church” is not found after chapter four in the Book of Revelation.
Technically this is a true statement, but is misleading in another respect. The Capital “C” Church, as we use the term today, is not found at all in the Book of Revelation, just as it is not found in several other New Testament books. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are given in the book.
However, we do find in Revelation 12:11 those under the Blood of the Lamb.
Rev 12:11 And
they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Can a person be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of the New Covenant?
The Greek word “hagios” is translated to “saint” throughout the New Testament. It is mainly used to refer to Christians. Some who say these saints in the Book of Revelation are “tribulation saints” are producing a term not found in the text.
Can the word “saint” refer to Christians in the Book of Revelation?
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for
the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of
saints.
Here we find the wife of the Lamb being described as “saints”.
Are members of the “Church” found after chapter four in the Book of Revelation?
Claim: The Church is a parenthesis in God’s plan because most of the nation of Israel rejected their Messiah. Therefore, God had to change His plan.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily
was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Based on the suffering servant in Isaiah chapter 53, was it God’s plan before the foundation of the world to save us through the blood sacrifice of His Son?
Did Christ know he would be rejected and crucified by His own people before it happened?
Joh 3:14 And
as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Was it already God’s plan as revealed in Genesis 3:15 that He would offer His Son?
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Do we find any indication that God changed His plan because most of the Israelites rejected their Messiah or was it God’s plan from the beginning?
Claim: God will go back to dealing with the nation of Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles is fulfilled.
In Romans 11:25 we have a reference to the fullness of the Gentiles.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel,
until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Did Christ tell us when this time will be fulfilled?
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,
until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of Luke 21:24 is a reference to the city of Jerusalem being destroyed by the Romans during 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time that is to occur after the events of 70 AD. Notice what we find in the verses that follow the times of the Gentiles being fulfilled in verse 24.
Luk 21:25 And
there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26
Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And
then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And
when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
In Luke 21:25-28 we find the Second Coming of Christ.
If we use the words of Christ above to interpret Romans 11:25, do we find a time period of 7 years when God will deal with the modern nation of Israel outside of the New Covenant Church?
Claim: During the tribulation period 144,000 Jews will evangelize the world.
What do we know about the 144,000 found in the book of Revelation.
Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed:
and there were sealed an hundred
and forty
and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad
were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses
were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar
were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph
were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin
were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and
about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might,
be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty
and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred
and forty
and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men,
being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
We have 144,000 sealed, with 12,000 from each of 12 tribes.
They are seen in heaven.
Later we see they are virgins not defiled with women.
Is there a description of them being evangelists?
If we try to make them real men from the modern nation of Israel, we run into problems immediately. If you go to the modern State of Israel and ask the Jews living there which tribe of Israel they come from you will find out that most have no idea. Why not? During the diaspora the tribal identities were lost. Also, there was a great deal of intermarriage between those of the various tribes. Therefore, modern Jews do not come from one tribe like the Apostle Paul.
Why are there exactly 12,000 from each tribe? The Book of Revelation is filled with symbols. Are these 12,000 a symbol? If not, why is there exactly 12,000 from each tribe?
Does claiming that these are 144,000 who will evangelize the whole world during the tribulation period go beyond what we find in the text?
They are sealed, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
If they are also firstfruits of the Lamb, are they not Christians?
Claim: “God is going to deal with Israel under the Old Covenant system of law keeping during a future 70th week of Daniel.”
We find the promise of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and we find Christ revealing that He will be the one to fulfill this New Covenant in Matthew 26:28 during the Last Supper. In between these two references to the New Covenant of the Messiah we have Daniel chapter 9. Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel Gabriel appeared to reveal the 70 weeks prophecy.
We find a summary of Daniel chapter 9 in verse 24.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
We find a covenant with the many in the last verse of the chapter.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm
the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make
it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
We also have a covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28.
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood, which ratifies
the New Covenant, my blood shed on behalf of many, so that they may have their sins forgiven. (CJB)
The 1599 Geneva Bible is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America. The following is found at Daniel 9:27.
……………………………….
Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
……………………………………..
Many modern evangelicals have a completely different interpretation of Daniel 9:27 which is used to produce a future 70th week of Daniel after the end of the Church Age. This interpretation produces a future 7 year period where the antichrist will make and then break a treaty with the modern nation of Israel.
What must be done to the text to make this interpretation work?
An antichrist not mentioned in the chapter must be added to the text.
The text says that Christ would be “cut off” after the 69th week, which would be during the 70th week using normal logic. If I offer to paint your house “after” 69 days, it will not be painted until the 70th day or later. However, the modern interpretation ends the 69th week when Christ is “cut off” and ignores any time after the resurrection before He ascended to heaven. It also normally ignores the fact that Christ’s ministry began when He was anointed by His Father from heaven, when His cousin John put Him in the waters of the Jordan River. This would be a logical point to end the 69th week and begin the 70th week of time when the Gospel was taken to the Jews, before it was taken to the Genitles.
The angel Gabriel did not mention a “gap” of time that is almost 2,000 years long at this point in time.
No time is given for the Gospel to be taken to Daniel’s people during the first century during the ministry of Christ or by His Apostles before it was taken to the Gentiles. We know that the Gospel was taken first to the Jews.
Does the modern interpretation used by many replace the New Covenant of Christ in Daniel 9:27 with a treaty broken by the antichrist?
There is no clear text anywhere in the Bible which gives a 7 year period of tribulation. It is most often produced by using the “antichrist interpretation” of Daniel 9:27 and or by adding together two of the references to a 3 ½ year tribulation period found in the Book of Revelation.
The 7th trumpet is the last trumpet found in the Bible.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Here we find that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ “forever” at the 7th trumpet.
In Revelation 11:18 we find the wrath of God and the time of the judgement of the dead.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and
thy wrath is come,
and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
If the judgment of the dead occurs at the time of the last trump it reveals the end of the tribulation period, if we simply accept what is written in the text.
Revelation chapter 12 starts with a history of the Church with the birth and death of the man child, who is Christ. If we take the text at face value without forcing it to fit a manmade system of interpretation, we see that the Book of Revelation is made up of a series of overlapping visions often repeated in the text.
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven;
and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And
his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon
stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And
she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
In the text above we find a history lesson with the fall of Satan and a third of the angels who followed him. Satan attempted to use Herod to destroy the baby Messiah by killing the male babies. We find the “man child” who is to rule with a rod of iron. We find in Psalm 2 that this man-child is God’s Son and that the potter destroys the flawed pots with the rod of iron. At the end of verse 5 we have the man-child in heaven at the throne of God.
There are allusions to the Second Coming at several places in the Book of Revelation.
We have those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb at the end of chapter 6. We have the last trumpet at the end of chapter 11. We have the harvest in chapter 14. We have Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16. We also have in Revelation 19:19 a reference to the same event.
It is interesting that some of the same characters found in chapter 6 are found later at the battle of Armageddon.
Rev_6:15 And the
kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the
chief captains, and the
mighty men, and every
bondman, and every
free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev_19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of
kings, and the flesh of
captains, and the flesh of
mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all
men, both free and
bond, both small and great.
Will God end the time of the New Covenant and go back to the Old covenant?
At the moment that Christ died at Calvary the veil in the temple was ripped in half showing that the Old Covenant system was fulfilled by Christ.
If God ripped the temple veil in half, who is going to repair it?
We find in Hebrews 8:13 that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant “obsolete”. Is God going back to an obsolete system with Moses or Aaron as the mediator instead of Christ?
In Hebrews 13:20 we find that the New Covenant is “everlasting”.
Will it come to an end 7 years before the Second Coming?
If people during the tribulation are under the Sinai covenant, how will they be saved since no person but Christ ever kept the Old covenant?
Does God desire a return to animal sacrifices after the ultimate sacrifice of His Son?
The New Covenant Church is found in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hosea 2:23 in the Old Testament. It is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13 and many other passages.
Is the New Covenant Church of Christ the ultimate fulfillment of Genesis 3:15 and Genesis 12:3, or will God have to go back to the Old Covenant system?
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said,
Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed
it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and
upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Where in the New Testament do we find a clear text stating that the modern nation of Israel will replace the Church in God’s plan of salvation for a period of 7 years? Do we find it in the words of Christ written in red?
Where in the New Testament do we find a clear text stating that God will go back to the Old Covenant system said to be “obsolete” in Hebrews 8:13?
Is God now a respecter of persons? Does he save people based on their bloodline?
If we want modern Jews to be saved, should we do everything is our power to share the Gospel with them, now?
Based on the text of Romans chapter 11 they may be grafted back into the Olive Tree, through faith in Christ.
Does Paul indicate a return to the Old Covenant system in any of his writings?
What is the ultimate fulfillment of God’s plan of salvation found throughout the Bible?
Is it the New Covenant Church of Christ or is it the modern State of Israel created by the United Nations in 1948 ?
.
