Does God Try His Very Best to Save Every Single Person?

[Thursday]

So, people who have not had faith in Christ through the peaching of the gospel are saved? OK. I'll stop sending money to missionaries.

Not that they are saved, that they may be.

Why would a Calvinist evangelize anyway. Salvation has nothing to do with your actions.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Not that they are saved, that they may be.

Why would a Calvinist evangelize anyway. Salvation has nothing to do with your actions.

So, there are many ways to salvation? That's not a Catholic doctrine, and we all know that Catholics all walk in lock-step with their church doctrines. What's the name and number of your parish priest?

 

[Thursday]

So, there are many ways to salvation? That's not a Catholic doctrine, and we all know that Catholics all walk in lock-step with their church doctrines. What's the name and number of your parish priest?

All salvation is through Christ.

That does not mean that the person in question must realize who their savior is.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

All salvation is through Christ.

That does not mean that the person in question must realize who their savior is.

That's an illogical statement and not in line with Catholic church doctrine.

 

[Thursday]

That's an illogical statement and not in line with Catholic church doctrine.

You are mistaken on both counts.

Do you think a person who dies without ever hearing the name Jesus will go to Hell automatically? Is that what you call logic?

As for the Church:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[RDKirk]

That is not possible. If it were, this would not be contained in scripture: "How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?"

Then what saves Job?

 

[RDKirk]

You are mistaken on both counts.

Do you think a person who dies without ever hearing the name Jesus will go to Hell automatically? Is that what you call logic?

As for the Church:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

I'm not even Catholic, but I can point to scripture that appear to indicate this.

 

[Thursday]

I'm not even Catholic, but I can point to scripture that appear to indicate this.

Yes, I mentioned a couple above.

I think the most relevant is in the bible twice, when Jesus says that the servant who doesn't know his master's will and fails to do it will be punished lightly as compared to the servant who does know his master's will and fails to do it.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

You are mistaken on both counts.

Do you think a person who dies without ever hearing the name Jesus will go to Hell automatically? Is that what you call logic?

As for the Church:

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

Kinda got the idea from the Bible:

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Thursday]

Kinda got the idea from the Bible:

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Neither of these say the belief is required.

Just because a person hasn't heard the name of Jesus you can't assume that Jesus is incapable of saving them.

That's not logical or biblical.

Do you think a person who has never heard of Jesus automatically goes to Hell?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Neither of these say the belief is required.

Do you think a person who has never heard of Jesus automatically goes to Hell?

Not only that, but those who think that there are more ways to life than through faith in Christ's life, death and resurrection are surely lost.

 

[Thursday]

Not only that, but those who think that there are more ways to life than through faith in Christ's life, death and resurrection are surely lost.

Jesus is the way, but you are wrong to assume that he can't save those who have never heard his name.

You are following man made dogma that contradicts scripture.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, I mentioned a couple above.

I think the most relevant is in the bible twice, when Jesus says that the servant who doesn't know his master's will and fails to do it will be punished lightly as compared to the servant who does know his master's will and fails to do it.

That plus Jonah: "And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left."

And also, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

This all tells me that God takes a man's knowledge and what the man did with that knowledge into consideration in His judgment. Now, how that works...I don't make a specific assertion. Nor do I need to, I only need to stick to what He's commanded me to do. It's not for me to make assertions about what He does outside the space of the instructions He's given me ("When Peter saw him, he asked, 'Lord, what about him?' Jesus answered, 'If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me'").

If I were a soldier commanded to capture Hill #200, it's not for me to assert what the commander is going to do about Hill #201. Hill #200 will be challenge enough ("To one he gave five talents; to another, two; and to another, one—to each according to his own ability").

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Jesus is the way, but you are wrong to assume that he can't save those who have never heard his name.

You are following man made dogma that contradicts scripture.

"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?"

You are right. Let's tear this page out of the Bible. and the entire gospel of John. Who needs that, anyway. Wait, Galatians, Romans, Ephesians and Mark have to go too.

Those stupid missionaries getting themselves killed for nothing. . .

 

[ScottA]

• Is God actively trying to save every man, woman and child?
• Is His effort completely equal in each case?

Please answer one or both questions, and use biblical backing as much as possible.

The easy answer is, Yes.

But there is more to it than that: The creation of every living "being"...only includes One "begotten." So then, the more correct question would be, "Is God trying to save the One?"...and we already know that He has.

However, if we break it all down as God has to "many sons"..."in Him (Christ)...then, the question becomes more complex. In fact, it would be inaccurate to say that He looses ANY, except "the son of perdition" (Satan). Again...the matter becomes more complex...because...every man women and child born, is first born as a child of Satan - we are or were, the fallen.

The correct answer then, is, No...because God has no intention of saving Satan, but rather to destroy him.

So, then, all who are "one" with Satan, are not saved, but destroyed. And all who hear the return call and invitation from God and come, are those who are saved...none of which, is lost, but found.

 

[EmSw]

Jesus is the way, but you are wrong to assume that he can't save those who have never heard his name.

You are following man made dogma that contradicts scripture.

You are correct. Moses, Elijah, and David never heard the name of Jesus.

 

[RDKirk]

"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?"

You are right. Let's tear this page out of the Bible. and the entire gospel of John. Who needs that, anyway. Wait, Galatians, Romans, Ephesians and Mark have to go too.

Those stupid missionaries getting themselves killed for nothing. . .

They got themselves killed in obedience. It is an error to think that obedience must show human-comprehensible results or even that God's commands must be based on human-comprehensible rationale.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

They got themselves killed in obedience. It is an error to think that obedience must show human-comprehensible results or even that God's commands must be based on human-comprehensible rationale.

If people are saved outside of Christ and His gospel, then there is no need for missionaries, and certainly no need for dead missionaries. In fact, missionaries only make things worse! They make people more guilty because they can no longer claim ignorance.

"Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains."

 

[sdowney717]

Only Christ can save His people from their sins.
And Christ came to be crucified.
So then preach Christ crucified who saves His people from their sins, and do not preach another gospel.

Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Jesus saves none but His own.

 

[Thursday]

Only Christ can save His people from their sins.
And Christ came to be crucified.
So then preach Christ crucified who saves His people from their sins, and do not preach another gospel.

Matthew 1:21
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Jesus saves none but His own.

Jesus stands at the door and knocks. Jesus saves all who respond to his grace. We choose whether or not to respond.