Does God Try His Very Best to Save Every Single Person?

[jimmyjimmy]

• Is God actively trying to save every man, woman and child?
• Is His effort completely equal in each case?

Please answer one or both questions, and use biblical backing as much as possible.

 

[alexandriaisburning]

God doesn't "try" to save anyone. God's good purposes in creation will not be twarted, and eventually God will be all in all. Not even death and the grave will be able to stand against this ultimate demonstration of divine justice, when the whole of creation is reconciled to its creator.

 

[sdowney717]

Exodus 4
22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”’”

God saves His people to serve Himself, according to His will, those that are not redeemed are destroyed by Him.

Luke 1
67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:

68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

76 “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us;
79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.”

Galatians 3:13
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”),

Galatians 4:5
to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
I
Titus 2:14
who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

1 Peter 1:18
knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,

Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Ephesians 1New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

 

[RDKirk]

• Is God actively trying to save every man, woman and child?
• Is His effort completely equal in each case?

Please answer one or both questions, and use biblical backing as much as possible.

Basic Calvinist/Reformed Theology versus everything else debate.

Not gonna be resolved here.

 

[Thursday]

• Is God actively trying to save every man, woman and child?
• Is His effort completely equal in each case?

Please answer one or both questions, and use biblical backing as much as possible.

God wants all men to be saved. The bible is not clear about his effort in the matter.

2 Peter 3:9
y. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Ezekiel 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling.

 

[sdowney717]

God commands all men to repent and believe in Christ, but God only elects some to know the truth by personal divine revelation who are His very own elect who are the saved.

Christ, Paul, Peter, John all taught election of the saints to be the saved.
The Lord chooses His very own elect.

Mark 13:20
And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Matthew 24:22
And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:31
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Luke 18:7
And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?
Romans 8:33
Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
Romans 9:11
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
1 Thessalonians 1:4
knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
1 Peter 5:13
She who is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.
2 John 1:1
[ Greeting the Elect Lady ] The Elder, To the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all those who have known the truth,
2 John 1:13
The children of your elect sister greet you. Amen.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[Thursday]

God commands all men to repent and believe in Christ, but God only elects some to know the truth by personal divine revelation who are His very own elect who are the saved.

This is an evil idea.

This idea blames God when a man goes to Hell.

God wants all men to be saved. The bible is not clear about his effort in the matter.

2 Peter 3:9
y. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

1 Tim 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Ezekiel 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

God wants all men to be saved. The bible is not clear about his effort in the matter.

Surly if He wants all me to be saved, as you say, He must apply some effort, no. Are His arms folded?

 

[EmSw]

Surly if He wants all me to be saved, as you say, He must apply some effort, no. Are His arms folded?

Sure, He gave us His Living Word.

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

His efforts require your efforts.

 

[Thursday]

Surly if He wants all me to be saved, as you say, He must apply some effort, no. Are His arms folded?

God has chosen to give man free will. Do you want to deny him this ability?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

God has chosen to give man free will. Do you want to deny him this ability?

God can't save people if they don't want to be saved? He want's to save them, but He can't? Is that your position?

 

[RDKirk]

The seeming paradox is that scripture clearly represents God as desiring all men to be saved (see post #7), but at the same time scripture clearly indicates that all men will not be saved.

Several theories have been developed to explain this paradox. None of those theories, nor the paradox itself is relevant or prohibitive to getting up each morning and occupying ourselves with the mission Jesus gave us.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Sure, He gave us His Living Word.

Ezekiel 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

His efforts require your efforts.

Has He? He may have given His word to you, but you are making your experience the norm. In the history of man only a small percentage of people have had His word. Even today, there are millions, and million who don't. What about them?

 

[EmSw]

Has He? He ay have given His word to you, but you are making your experience the norm. In the history of man only a small percentage of people have had His word. Even today, there are millions, and million who don't. What about them?

I can tell you, my experience is totally different than anyone else's.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.

You may see results of the wind (Spirit), but you do not know from where it comes and goes. We do not know how the Spirit works in the lives of everyone. The Spirit does as it wishes.

Psalm 19
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

You may think many haven't heard His word, but God has put in provisions for everyone to see His glory and His handiwork. They utter speech and reveal knowledge. Their voice is heard in all speeches and languages. They have gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

How God does this, I don't pretend to know. Just because I don't know how He does this, It doesn't mean I can't trust His word that He does.

 

[alexandriaisburning]

but at the same time scripture clearly indicates that all men will not be saved.

Clear, to whom?

 

[RDKirk]

Has He? He ay have given His word to you, but you are making your experience the norm. In the history of man only a small percentage of people have had His word. Even today, there are millions, and million who don't. What about them?

I can display scripture which seems to indicate clearly (to me) that upon judgment God will take into genuine consideration how each person acknowledged God from what he knew, not what he didn't know. In that respect, I tend toward the same "inclusivism" of Billy Graham and CS Lewis (but not universalism).

But the short answer from Jesus is this:

When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord—what about him?”

“If I want him to remain until I come,” Jesus answered, “what is that to you? As for you, follow Me.” -- John 21

It's not my business how God handles salvation for people who have had no way to hear about Him. It's my business to occupy myself today with my fragment of the mission Jesus gave to the Body of Christ.

 

[sdowney717]

I can display scripture which seems to indicate clearly (to me) that upon judgment God will take into genuine consideration how each person acknowledged God from what he knew, not what he didn't know. In that respect, I tend toward the same "inclusivism" of Billy Graham and CS Lewis (but not universalism).

But the short answer from Jesus is this:

When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, “Lord—what about him?”

“If I want him to remain until I come,” Jesus answered, “what is that to you? As for you, follow Me.” -- John 21

It's not my business how God handles salvation for people who have had no way to hear about Him. It's my business to occupy myself today with my fragment of the mission Jesus gave to the Body of Christ.

This is the whole point of the forum, discussing how God saves us according to His scriptures is how we are to know that.
Romans 2
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

However by the Law God says no flesh shall be justified, for by the Law is the knowledge of sin, Romans 3:20. They may excuse themselves their sin, but God will not hold them guiltless. Romans 10 is true that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
We are saved by grace according to His mercy and that is not of ourselves, not dependent on us being His gift.
Those who had not heard will be judged by Jesus Christ and HE already said if you do not believe that He is God come in the flesh, then you will die in your sins.

Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

v15, says they must be sent, now they are sent by God, by Christ to preach. In acts they were directed by the Spirit to not go some places but go other places, so the agency is the Spirit sending to preach to those who are to hear at the appointed times and places about salvation in Christ. Even preachers are not free agents, they go the way they are appointed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[RDKirk]

Clear, to whom?

To Calvinists, for instance. And they can present lots of scripture for their point of view as well.

 

[RDKirk]

This is the whole point of the forum, discussing how God saves us according to His scriptures is how we are to know that.

That may be the point of this forum, but it's not a relevant point to Jesus. I've been personally participating in--and more often merely observing--these "Calvinism versus Arminianism" debates (in their various forms) for decades...and the debate has been going on for over 500 years.

That's all people trying to comprehend the mind of God beyond the basic information He gave us about other people we will never know. Jesus point is: Do the work I gave you. If we were doing the work, none of us would personally know anyone who has not yet heard about Christ. At least we would not have known him for long.

 

[RDKirk]

However by the Law God says no flesh shall be justified, for by the Law is the knowledge of sin, Romans 3:20. They may excuse themselves their sin, but God will not hold them guiltless. Romans 10 is true that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
We are saved by grace according to His mercy and that is not of ourselves, not dependent on us being His gift.
Those who had not heard will be judged by Jesus Christ and HE already said if you do not believe that He is God come in the flesh, then you will die in your sins.

Is Job condemned? If not, why not, according to what you have said?