Does God really expect Christians to live in loveless marriages?

[SirKenin]

remember Ephesians 5 tells us that a husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church AND gave His life for her. Notice the and....iow's He Loved the Church and HE gave HIs life for her as a demonstration of that Love. They are NOT one and the same. So define Love and after you define it, tell us please how Christ Loved the Church before and after the great demonstration of Loving her with his life?

What does laying down actually mean? Sacrifice. Not just dying in a literal sense, but sacrificing your needs for the greater good. In other words, don't do what serves you or her, do what serves the relationship.

So what is love? To understand it, here's what it isn't. If you see someone in need and you have the means but simply walk on past, you're not loving them. If you hate your brother, or a gay, or a muslim, you're a murderer, not a lover. If you don't make the sacrifices necessary to give your children the best chance of surviving in this world, you're a murderer, not a lover. If you don't provide, listen and fight the battles you're a murderer of your relationship, not a lover.

So that's what love isn't. Love is the antithesis of these things. Love is sacrifice. It's an ACTION. How can you show love? By being the warrior, the rock, the provider, the listener. By putting other's needs ahead of your own. By not needing her for ANYTHING.

How did Jesus show his love? The answer is in the question. ACTION. Words are meaningless. He overturned the tables of the money changers, he ate away at the power of the scribes and pharisees, he healed the sick, he tended to the poor, he hung out with the "sinners". He showed love by demonstrating what love looked like. He wasn't needy. He didn't need to be cuddled or placated in a forum. He didn't need to be reassured. He didn't need anything of anyone. He demonstrated by ACTION. He then paid the ultimate SACRIFICE through action.

What is the role of a woman in society? A woman spreads her medicine and healing to all around her. Your job as a man is to allow her to expand her reach beyond the narrow confines of your domicile. In the old days women would stay where it was safe, near the fire. The men went out and conquered new territory, making it safe for the woman to travel farther to spread their medicine/healing.

See how empowering that is? You have the power, you have the control over yourself, you create your destiny, you reap the rewards of your actions. Everything that happens in your life says something about who you are. If it's not working out, YOU have the power to change it...or whine about it.

We're not talking here. Words are meaningless. Women don't want to hear your words. They don't believe a single darn thing you say (nor should they, it's all rubbish). They believe what they SEE. And that demands ACTION.

I'm sorry, but if you want to get into the new age stuff, if that's what you're pushing for, it doesn't work, it's proven not to work and I'll thank you kindly for not going into a feminized version of "love".

 

[razzelflabben]

What does laying down actually mean? Sacrifice. Not just dying in a literal sense, but sacrificing your needs for the greater good. In other words, don't do what serves you or her, do what serves the relationship.

what does scripture say about sacrifice? I Samuel 15:22 Then Samuel said: Does the LORD take pleasure in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? Look: to obey is better than sacrifice, to pay attention is better than the fat of rams....now, the OPer talked about trying to become obedient...so apparently, according to scripture, he is doing better than sacrificing for either himself, his wife, or his marriage. But again, you fail to provide a definition for Love.

So what is love? To understand it, here's what it isn't. If you see someone in need and you have the means but simply walk on past, you're not loving them. If you hate your brother, or a gay, or a muslim, you're a murderer, not a lover. If you don't make the sacrifices necessary to give your children the best chance of surviving in this world, you're a murderer, not a lover. If you don't provide, listen and fight the battles you're a murderer of your relationship, not a lover.

so, more examples and no definition...shall we assume you cannot give a definition? If so, I'll provide one for you to consider.

So that's what love isn't. Love is the antithesis of these things. Love is sacrifice. It's an ACTION. How can you show love? By being the warrior, the rock, the provider, the listener. By putting other's needs ahead of your own. By not needing her for ANYTHING.

see previous post, nothing in this paragraph shows us Christ's example which is what Ephesians 5 tells husband's are their examples on how to Love the wife.

How did Jesus show his love? The answer is in the question. ACTION. Words are meaningless. He overturned the tables of the money changers, he ate away at the power of the scribes and pharisees, he healed the sick, he tended to the poor, he hung out with the "sinners". He showed love by demonstrating what love looked like. He wasn't needy. He didn't need to be cuddled or placated in a forum. He didn't need to be reassured. He didn't need anything of anyone. He demonstrated by ACTION. He then paid the ultimate SACRIFICE through action.

Let me ask you this, what did Jesus do when He prayed in the garden? What did He do when Lazarus died? Love is action, but it is also emotion and attitude and more. One of the huge misconceptions in the church today is that Love is an action. But like Paul said, you know my Love by my actions, not that Love is the action. It is a difference you would do well to learn.

What is the role of a woman in society? A woman spreads her medicine and healing to all around her. Your job as a man is to allow her to expand her reach beyond the narrow confines of your domicile. In the old days women would stay where it was safe, near the fire. The men went out and conquered new territory, making it safe for the woman to travel farther to spread their medicine/healing.

please show in scripture where the role of the woman is to be by the fire while the men go out and fight....

I'm sorry, but if you want to get into the new age stuff, if that's what you're pushing for, it doesn't work, it's proven not to work and I'll thank you kindly for not going into a feminized version of "love". [/QUOTE]so, now, you think Bible is new age...that is kind of messed up.

 

[SirKenin]

what does scripture say about sacrifice? I Samuel 15:22 Then Samuel said: Does the LORD take pleasure in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? Look: to obey is better than sacrifice, to pay attention is better than the fat of rams..

Wow. Context much? I can't engage in a discussion with you if you can't even grasp context of the passages you quote. Sorry man.

Just one thing and then I must digress. Jesus didn't walk around going "I love you man" or "I love you Church" or "cuddle me". Jesus SERVED the Church. Action.

Cheers.

 

[razzelflabben]

Wow. Context much? I can't engage in a discussion with you if you can't even grasp context of the passages you quote. Sorry man.

Just one thing and then I must digress. Jesus didn't walk around going "I love you man" or "I love you Church" or "cuddle me". Jesus SERVED the Church. Action.

Cheers.

wow, so your posts refuse to address scripture. It clearly says that obedience is better than sacrifice and we see that very same truth throughout the totality of scripture. In fact, John 14:15 confirms that obedience is better than sacrifice.

Now, as to the rest of this, what did I tell you? Did you read what I wrote or just respond thinking you knew more so you didn't have to listen? LOVE is action, attitude, emotion and much more as demonstrated in scripture. Your trying to pull out some words and in that make it sound like I said otherwise is the kind of thing that turns people away from what you are saying and label it as false.

 

[Goatee]

I think sirkenin sees things differently to most and that he is in all probability a domineering guy. Its obvious he cannot be kind in his words and is quite aggressive.

 

[razzelflabben]

I think sirkenin sees things differently to most and that he is in all probability a domineering guy. Its obvious he cannot be kind in his words and is quite aggressive.

I'm disappointed he refused to talk about Love, it's a huge topic and well worth our effort to learn about.

 

[SirKenin]

Hi Antletems. There's a quote that I wanted to share with you.

Most people get married believing a myth that marriage is beautiful box full of all the things they have longed for; Companionship, intimacy, friendship etc ... The truth is, that marriage at the start is an empty box, you must put something in before you can take anything out. There is no love in marriage, love is in people, and people put love in marriage. There is no romance in marriage, you have to infuse it into your marriage. A couple must learn the art, and form the habit of giving, loving, serving, praising, of keeping the box full. If you take out more than you put in, the box will be empty.​

Namaste

 

[Goatee]

Hi Antletems. There's a quote that I wanted to share with you.

Most people get married believing a myth that marriage is beautiful box full of all the things they have longed for; Companionship, intimacy, friendship etc ... The truth is, that marriage at the start is an empty box, you must put something in before you can take anything out. There is no love in marriage, love is in people, and people put love in marriage. There is no romance in marriage, you have to infuse it into your marriage. A couple must learn the art, and form the habit of giving, loving, serving, praising, of keeping the box full. If you take out more than you put in, the box will be empty.​

Namaste

Thanks for that but i disagree.

 

[SirKenin]

Thanks for that but i disagree.

Ok, fair enough. I saw it and thought immediately of your situation so I wanted to share it. All good.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I think a lot of us, including OP, are just guessing what is going on. I know that the OP feels he did everything he can. But his wife just tell him she doesn't love him anymore. So there is no solution. But that isn't true. There is a solution and his wife knows what it is. She just doesn't tell him because she gave up on him ever becoming that solution.

The only way the find out is from her.

So OP please ask your wife this:

"When you decided to marry me, what did you see in me? How did you envision I to become? How is this version of me different than today's me?"

 

[Boidae]

I'm disappointed he refused to talk about Love, it's a huge topic and well worth our effort to learn about.

All I hear when reading his posts is a banging gong and noisy cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

I know in the case of my marriage, we don't belong together, and some people truly do not belong together, so my wife is divorcing me and yes, we have kids, two of them. We just ignored the red flags while we were dating.

If I get into another relationship in the future, I will know better and not ignore the warning signs if we were to take it to the next step.

Now that I am separated I have been able to come off of my depression medication and stay off of it and I am doing better over all. I even lost 30+ pounds.

 

[Job8]

Does God really expect Christians to live in loveless marriages?

Not at all. Christians by definition possess the indwelling Holy Spirit, and it is in the power of the Spirit that husbands can love wives (as Christ loved the Church) and vice versa. Since you love your wife but apparently she does not reciprocate, it is primarily a spiritual problem on her part (although you may be contributing without knowing it). There may be other issues which no one else can know unless you sit down with someone who can provide spiritual help and counsel.

 

[Grafted In]

Antletems, hang in there. Having done all you can, resolve to just hunker down and wait on God. He will bring His best to you in His perfect time.

 

[CCHIPSS]

All I hear when reading his posts is a banging gong and noisy cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

I know in the case of my marriage, we don't belong together, and some people truly do not belong together, so my wife is divorcing me and yes, we have kids, two of them. We just ignored the red flags while we were dating.

If I get into another relationship in the future, I will know better and not ignore the warning signs if we were to take it to the next step.

Now that I am separated I have been able to come off of my depression medication and stay off of it and I am doing better over all. I even lost 30+ pounds.

Not talking about your in particular. But it does break my heart. I think a lot of OPs that posts on these forums comes way too late. It is like they wait till they are 99% sure they are going to divorce, and then they come here as a last resort for a solution. I see many of them just ignore what everyone tries to tell them. Then 1 or 2 weeks later they are already divorced.

It should be obvious that the problem isn't because the posters here doesn't have good suggestion to give. But these OPs came way too late.

Meanwhile I got to ask what were their small group doing? Why wasn't their small groups (in real life) helping them and giving them suggestions?

It should never have came to that 99%.

As for "some people just don't belong together", there are many cases where the spouse takes care of the other that is in some serious illnesses. Some are totally disabled and need help with eating and washroom. Others have brain problems and doesn't even recognized their spouse. Yet these spouses never left and stayed.

Jesus doesn't belong with us. He is God. But he stayed and he never left. Learn from him.

Hosea married a prostitute. His wife was so messed up from her past that she sold herself back into prostitution. Hosea not only forgave her, but he went and bought her back with his own money. All of past, present and future mistakes forgiven unconditionally. Learn from him.

Love is not comfortable. Love is not easy. But that's why it is real. That's how we know we are not robots, but intelligent beings of our own will.

 

[razzelflabben]

All I hear when reading his posts is a banging gong and noisy cymbal. 1 Corinthians 13:1

I know in the case of my marriage, we don't belong together, and some people truly do not belong together, so my wife is divorcing me and yes, we have kids, two of them. We just ignored the red flags while we were dating.

If I get into another relationship in the future, I will know better and not ignore the warning signs if we were to take it to the next step.

Now that I am separated I have been able to come off of my depression medication and stay off of it and I am doing better over all. I even lost 30+ pounds.

Let me ask you a question but before you do, there is no intended agenda. The only thing I know about your situation is what you say here, so the question has no hidden agenda, any application of the question is between you and God.

So the question....How does God's sovereignty play into your entire marriage story, from the woman you married to the divorce you talk about? Because, God's sovereignty is part of His perfect Love, that is why the question is valid to ask when talking about Love.

 

[Boidae]

Let me ask you a question but before you do, there is no intended agenda. The only thing I know about your situation is what you say here, so the question has no hidden agenda, any application of the question is between you and God.

So the question....How does God's sovereignty play into your entire marriage story, from the woman you married to the divorce you talk about? Because, God's sovereignty is part of His perfect Love, that is why the question is valid to ask when talking about Love.

I don't believe that it does when two people realize that they don't belong together.

I do not believe that God puts everyone together, does he? Yes he does, but not everyone.

Some people, such is the case with my marriage do it anyway. When that happens the marriage suffers. It flounders and doesn't go anywhere. It's a dead marriage.

We know we made a mistake in getting married, and shouldn't have done so. We are better apart then together where the children suffered more from two people who were in constant strife, on constant edge and constantly walking on egg shells.

So the divorce will happen and all parties will be better for it.

I know that it sounds harsh and probably not Christian like, but it's reality. We're both going to move on, and I hope that she finds someone who will make her happy to be in a relationship. I want the best for her.

 

[razzelflabben]

I don't believe that it does when two people realize that they don't belong together.

I do not believe that God puts everyone together, does he? Yes he does, but not everyone.

Some people, such is the case with my marriage do it anyway. When that happens the marriage suffers. It flounders and doesn't go anywhere. It's a dead marriage.

We know we made a mistake in getting married, and shouldn't have done so. We are better apart then together where the children suffered more from two people who were in constant strife, on constant edge and constantly walking on egg shells.

So the divorce will happen and all parties will be better for it.

I know that it sounds harsh and probably not Christian like, but it's reality. We're both going to move on, and I hope that she finds someone who will make her happy to be in a relationship. I want the best for her.

Again, I am not asking you about your marriage specifically. I will say this, time and time and time again, in the days when arranged marriages were the thing, people who didn't even know each other got married and learned to Love one another. In fact, in Biblical days, arranged marriages were the rule not the exception which is one reason I suspect that the husband is commanded to Love the wife, whereas the wife is never commanded to love the husband, rather she is to be taught how to Love the husband.

Point being, yes, we can override the will of God by our stubborn hearts and stiff necks, but even in that, God promises to work out His plans, plans that are for our God and plans that do NOT result in our sins.

 

[razzelflabben]

BTW, Biodae, you posted that you hope she finds someone who makes her happy...you are aware aren't you that God didn't promise us happiness in this life, nor does He say we deserve to be happy. Rather we are promised peace and grace

 

[Boidae]

BTW, Biodae, you posted that you hope she finds someone who makes her happy...you are aware aren't you that God didn't promise us happiness in this life, nor does He say we deserve to be happy. Rather we are promised peace and grace

Sure do, but it doesn't mean that I cannot hope that she finds happiness. She deserves to be happy. There is nothing wrong with saying those things.

 

[razzelflabben]

Sure do, but it doesn't mean that I cannot hope that she finds happiness. She deserves to be happy. There is nothing wrong with saying those things.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with saying or wishing them, what I am suggesting however, is that Biblical Love wishes and hopes for peace and comfort, not happiness. I am also suggesting that when the OP asks the question, "what does God..." then the answers we give should be those that God says, not those that we desire. IOW's where it is fine to wish for and hope that your ex wife find happiness, by virtue of the OP, you are off topic to talk about what you want for your exwife rather than what God wants for her or you or marriage. God wants healthy marriages that are full of HIs peace, HIs grace, HIs comfort, HIs Love. Nothing at all about happiness, that is a man made idea that we are taught from birth, that there is a happily ever after that we need to strive for rather than the peace and Love that God promises when we follow HIm.