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Does God expect us to be perfect?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by 777dannyray777, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. 777dannyray777

    777dannyray777 Newbie

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    Or does He want u to be perfect?
    There's a couple of verses in the Bible saying that we are to be perfect just like God but doesn't It also say that no one is righteous except God?

    Please help me out on this issue...it's really frustrating me...

    Thank you in return and God bless you all... ;)
     
  2. 40creek

    40creek And This Happened How?

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    I want to save this site. I wrote for a half hour and suddenly lost everthing. By makiong a post I can find this in my history. I really want to answer this but have to go now.
     
  3. LWB

    LWB Regular Member

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    I'm sure God wants us to be perfect, but doesn't expect it to happen overnight. We are to work at being Christlike in the same way that a musician practices to play their instrument with precision.

    Maybe it won't happen within the span of our lifetime, but as long as we make progress, we can see with enough time we'd get there eventually.

    But to look at this question in another way, we are already perfect in the eyes of God, because we put faith in Christ who lived perfection on our behalf.
     
  4. ezeric

    ezeric HE loves me too.

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    First "perfect" means complete.
    Second, its the work of the HOLY SPIRIT to make you complete/perfect - not yours.
    As you can't make yourself any better, let alone complete, if you could then you dont need JESUS.

    So, rest in what HE completed, "it is finished". John 19:30
    And then HE will complete you, HE always makes perfect what HE starts.
    1 Philippians 1:6

    -eric

    The Exchanged Life
     
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  5. Lee52

    Lee52 New Member

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    Okay, Salvation in Jesus 101.

    In the beginning God created man (and woman) to have perfect fellowship and relationship with Himself in the perfect garden. God created us with free will, so that we have choices about relationships. Satan, a fallen angel, was in the garden with man and woman and brought temptation to go against God to man and woman. Enter free will and choice; and woman decided what Satan said might be advantageous to her and her mate-man. So, she and the man, disobeyed God, enter SIN. Sin is merely going against God's will for our lives. So, broken relationship with God, resulting in limited fellowship between God and mankind. No longer perfect.

    God needed a perfect reconcilliation with man, His creation. God tried to have man reconciled by blood sacrifice of His second best creation; animals, but that was an imperfect reconcilliation, which man was unable to keep due to our sinful nature after the fall in the garden. God needed a perfect sacrifice to perfectly reconcile man to Himself. The entire Old Testament points to that perfect sacrifice and perfect reconcilliation of man to God and restoration of perfect fellowship lost in the garden.

    Enter the birth of Jesus, the Word which was in the beginning with God, and was God, Who became flesh and blood and walked on the earth as man and still God, so is perfect in all ways.

    Enter Satan with Jesus in the desert to tempt Jesus as he tempts man. Jesus defeats Satan's temptations with the Word of God as an example to all other humans as to how to defeat temptations from Satan.

    Then comes Jesus ministry to man to show humans the true nature of God the Father of all creation. Jesus performs many miracles to encourage and heal humans of things that keep us from having quality of life and to show that there is quality of life in Him. Jesus continually forgives sins and provides guidance of how God wants to have a loving, accepting, forgiving relationship with His creation.

    Then, the final solution to sin: Jesus death on the cross and the acceptance of all human sin upon Himself, which He carries into Haedes (Hell) and leaves there. He presents Himself to those in Haedes who have died before His sacrifice and take those who accept Him in to Heaven for eternity. They are now perfect as He is perfect, by His perfect blood sacrifice. Jesus now returns to His dead flesh and blood body in the tomb, gives it new life, and walks again on the earth as a guarantee to us of resurrection into a new life, perfected by His perfect sacrifice on the cross as a substitute for us.

    Jesus now ascends into Heaven to prepare a place for each of us to live in eternity with Him in a perfect relationship and perfectly restored fellowship with our Creator God. He then sends the third part of God, the Holy Spirit, to encourage us and strengthen us and teach us the truth and power of God.

    When we, you, accept Jesus' substitutional sacrifice for our/your sins, God begins to look at us through the blood of Jesus, instead of directly at us. We are perfect, as Jesus is perfect. Not because of us or anything that we do or can do, but because of Jesus and what He did, and what the Holy Spirit can do for us and in us.

    It is a free gift from God called grace that makes us perfect as He is perfect.

    Be blessed by God,
    Lee
     
  6. Quasicentennial

    Quasicentennial Member

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    To be perfect is definitely being like Jesus. Because the healing power of Jesus is beyond our understanding or medical science, pastors or even ordinary Christians like you and me, can possess this miraculous healing power through prayer, especially when done together as a prayer team in church to bring healing to those with emotional, or disease-annoying or financial problems on a regular basis where church attendance happens each week so that the healing from Jesus can be more often and not just once in a long time. For example, I can be healed of all diseases, but several weeks later, I can be emotionally negative with that: "I don't trust you" attitude where I expect my weekly pay to be large enough to cover my debts, food and petrol. So my going to church each week is important to avoid Satan's attacking deceitful lies that can destroy Christianity.
    :liturgy:
    :cool:
     
  7. Ompanime

    Ompanime RJT

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    I know that we are to be like Jesus. Also that it is possible to stop sinning.

    1 John 3:9

    "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

    I don't know if God expects us to be perfect but, I do believe He would be pleased if we were more like Jesus.

    1 John 2:6

    "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."

    If you want to grow in a deeper relationship with Him, read The Bible, and listen to music that gives praises to Him.

    YouTube - Where You Are - Jor'dan Armstrong
     
  8. Emmy

    Emmy Senior Veteran

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    Dear 777dannyray777. Jesus told us" be ye perfect as God is perfect." Jesus also asked God when He was hanging on the Cross, ( and suffering for us) " Father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing." In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus told a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: love thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." The Bible keeps telling us: " Repent," change your selfish and unloving character TO: love God with all your beings, and love your neighbour as yourselves." That is not easy, but it can be done, danny. Jesus will give us His Love and His Joy, and the Holy Spirit will empower us with His Love. Jesus told us to " Ask and ye will receive," and we will have love and Joy to share with our neighbour, all others, friends or not friends. We start by treating all we know and all we meet, as we and those we love, would love to be treated, and God will notice and see, and will approve and give us His Blessings. God is Love, and God wants us become as loving as God is, selflessly and beneficially, no conditions asked. Jesus will lead us back to God, where we came from, and God wants loving children/sons and daughters. We have much time to get better and better, and Jesus also taughts to pray: " Father forgive us our sins as we will forgive those who sin against us." Every time we stumble or fail, we pick ourselves up and ask God`s forgivenes and carry on trying to become as God wants us to become. Jesus died that we might live, and Jesus will lead us, He is The Way. I say this with love, dannyray, and send greetings. Emmy, your sister in Christ.
     
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  9. 40creek

    40creek And This Happened How?

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    God thinks of us as his children and let me ask you this, How many of you parents want your children to be perfect? To be the smartest, the healthiest? Like us God wants us to be perfect even as he is perfect however, like us God knows we will not be perfect just as our children will not be perfect. Like us God will forgive us our sins. The good news is that in our new bodies we will be recreated without the weakness and the temptations that lead us to sin. It will be possible to live with God and be perfect. I do not know how so don't ask. I also do not know if it will be possible to sin in Gods kingdom. I'd like to think it will not be possible but then angels were able to sin. But then that is just supposition.
    God bless you all.
     
  10. If Not For Grace

    If Not For Grace Legend-but then so's Keith Richards

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    OP Short Answer NO!

    Then there was no need for Jesus to come down here at all if "we" can be perfect.

    I was not perfect before being saved, am not perfect now-so if God expected me to be perfect He messed up, but then He could not be God & do that now could He?
     
  11. heron

    heron Legend

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    The gospel message -- the good news, the new covenant is that God makes us whole/perfect/holy when we can't do it ourselves. We are made righteous through Christ's sacrifice.

    Arg! Don't you hate that. I try to copy every once in a while, or write in Notepad and then paste. Before hitting "post," make sure you control-C. Then if it disappears, you still have it.
     
  12. heron

    heron Legend

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    2 Esdras 2:41
    beseech the Lord's power that your people, who have been called from the beginning, may be made holy.

    It is not polished fakeness that God is looking for, but intent to love Him and serve others in love... to respect His Word and the life that He offered us.

    2 Timothy 2:15
    Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
     
  13. Walter Kovacs

    Walter Kovacs Justice is coming, no matter what we do.

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    Sure hope not.
     
  14. fm107

    fm107 Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20

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    I agree with If Not For Grace and heron.

    The bible makes it clear that we aren't perfect and will not be perfect until we gain our heavenly bodies.

    1 Corinthians 15:42-44
    So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

    But when Jesus said:

    Matthew 5:48
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    I simply see this as something we as Christians should all strive to be.

    We should all set our aims high, we all should be aiming to be perfect before God.

    But that's only comes through the help of the Holy Spirit because man on his own cannot please God. As long as we are here in this dark world, we will not be perfect, it's something though we should always try to be, I.E. obedient to God, abstaining from our temptations etc etc.

    .................................................................................

    May I take this opportunity to just state a few misconceptions I have read.

    Brother Ompanime, this is for you. I don't point this out to be bad to you but to try to help you because that teaching you hold isn't right brother.

    Have you stopped sining? Because by your logic, if you haven't your not born of God.

    I will try to explain this verse a little. Say a guy who robbed banks said he now believes in God but he continues to rob banks. There is no change in the person, his attitude remains the same. We can tell from that he isn't really born of God.

    One way to realise a person is born of God is a change in their attiude towards sin. They don't continue living the same life as they did before they were saved. There is a change in the person.

    We can still sin, even a wrong thought is a sin! But this verse makes clear that a genuine believer has a change of mind, it's basically stating that a genuine believer is repentant, he/she doesn't continue living in the exact same way as before they got saved.

    .................................................................................

    Brother Lee52, I know you have good intentions also. So please take this receptively if you can and in love.

    Where in the bible does it say that?

    Haven't you read the scripture:

    John 19:30
    "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

    What happened when he died?

    Luke 23:43
    Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

    Paradise isn't Hell. This theif was a believer in Jesus, he didn't go to Hell. Both of them went to paradise. A waiting place for Heaven.

    This is when believers are taken to Heaven:

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
    For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

    Those in Haedes remain there, there is no second chances after death. That's why it's so important to go out and preach the gospel.

    Isaiah 55:6-77

    Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
     
  15. Saucy

    Saucy New Member Supporter

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    I believe that God wants us to be perfect, but knows we're not capable. That's why Jesus came and died on the cross, to pay for all of our sins. If we wish to truly be with God, to experience Him, then we need to be absolutely perfect. The bible says that God is no respecter of persons. We often things that a little white lie is no big deal or the millions of "little" things we look past on a daily basis. But every sin weighs heavy on our souls.

    Who would've thought Eve eating a piece of fruit off a tree would put a curse on all of humanity? Sin is sin and in order to be in communion with God, we need to be perfect. He does expect perfection, but knows we can't achieve it.
     
  16. Lee52

    Lee52 New Member

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    fm107,
    I suggest you re-read Ephesians chapter 4 and 1 Peter.
    Lee52
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  17. Lee52

    Lee52 New Member

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    Eph. 4:8-10 This is why it {Or God} says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." {Psalm 68:18} (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? {Or the depths of the earth} He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
    Jesus descended into Hades. Both those in the "bosom of Abraham" and in the part of Hades set aside for those on their way to hell heard what Jesus had to say. When He left Hades He led captives in His train, meaning He emptied out Abraham's Bosom and took those saints to heaven.
    1 Pet. 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
    So Jesus was redeeming the Old Testament saints in Abraham's Bosom after telling them of what He had done to redeem mankind, since they had believed in God in faith and were looking forward to the Messiah. But Jesus also preached this same message to the disobedient people in Hades awaiting judgment.
    1 Pet. 3:18-20 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
    So Christ told both those in Hades who were in "Abraham's Bosom" because they had been justified by faith about His death on the cross and He emptied that part of Hades and took the souls of the dead Old Testament saints to heaven with him. Those in the other part of Hades, which still exists until the end, who were unbelievers, also heard his message so that they would also be without excuse when final judgment is passed on them at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev. 20:11).
     
  18. Tim Myers

    Tim Myers Regular Member

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    "Does God expect us to be perfect?"

    In a word.......no.......
     
  19. fm107

    fm107 Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20

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    :prayer:
    Brother,

    Thanks for your detailed response however that is not what those verses mean. Furthermore, we know that scripture cannot and does not contradict itself. The above interpretation of those verses contradict the ones I previously posted.

    If I get to today I will post a response to what you have written.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    To the original poster...

    If we as Christians just shrug our shoulders and say ow well we cannot be perfect in this life, that isn't right. But instead we say, let's try to be perfect, just like our heavenly father is.
     
  20. Lee52

    Lee52 New Member

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    fm107,
    I suggest you and I NOT hijack this thread with this.
    If you want to start a thread on this, or PM me on it, I will be glad to "reason together" with you on it. Just not here on this thread.
    Lee