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Doctrine: Is It Really Worth Arguing Over?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by SQLservant, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. x141

    x141 ...

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    When we see that Israel is the firstborn, and the firstborn is christ, and this christ is in us, then Israel as a whole becomes us individually, and jerusalem becomes the bride or our soul, and we/us, collectively, the bride to the son, and how we are called out of darkness and how we ended up wandering in darkness in the first place; Not to mention what Israel, in the natural, is to all the nations of the earth as well.

    In the end it is about our relationship with our Father and through this, our relationship with those that are around us.
     
  2. Keachian

    Keachian On Sabbatical

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    No, there is nothing anyone can do to change their standing with God.
     
  3. x141

    x141 ...

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    This is a very comforting thought ... :clap:
     
  4. sculleywr

    sculleywr trouble-making crazy guy

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    I don't find that very comforting, considering that my life has nothing good in itself to offer.

    I also don't find that very accurate, since there are several times where intercession and repentance have altered God's response to people.
     
  5. NewUser123

    NewUser123 New Member

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    You mean like these guys in John 8?

    Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
    Jesus vs the Pharisees

    John 8:44 `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do;
    he was a man-slayer from the beginning and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar--also his father.

    At least they don't have to worry about being burned at the stake these days :p ;)

    http://www.christianforums.com/t6486531/
    That heretics be burned is against the will of the Spirit.


    .
     
  6. Nova Scotian Boy

    Nova Scotian Boy Grand Sasquatch

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    Theology (or doctrine) is the study of God. So really what is being pushed here is, that who God is does not matter. Knowing him is unimportant, believing the right things about God are not important. Just boil everything down to the lowest common denominator so that we all get warm fuzzy, and can sing kumbaya.
     
  7. Tangible

    Tangible ن

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    Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

    (1 Tim 4:16 NIV84)
     
  8. seeingeyes

    seeingeyes Newbie

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    This really is what it all boils down to: Who is God? And what the heck is He doing?

    We can get all tangled up in Christianese, but those questions are what we are wrangling over.
     
  9. SQLservant

    SQLservant Newbie

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    What I meant is that the beliefs and practices informing one's desire to know and please God. If you are unregenerate, and the Spirit moves you to deeper faith through the example of orthodoxy (e.g., that it all makes sense in a world that does not) or the example of orthopraxy (e.g., that the saints did great things in the world because of their love for God), can it not be said to have been helpful?

    There is indeed nothing one can do OF HIMSELF to change his standing with God, and that even includes right belief and right action; on that we can all agree.
     
  10. SQLservant

    SQLservant Newbie

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    QFT
     
  11. Tangible

    Tangible ن

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    Ju got sone esplainin' to do. How can someone without faith (unregenerate) be moved by the Spirit to deeper faith?
     
  12. SQLservant

    SQLservant Newbie

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    Oops! Bit of a conflation. Would it be acceptable, then, to say that an unregenerate can be moved by the Spirit toward faith at all, or that one who is backslidden can be moved toward deeper faith (acknowledging that the latter may not properly be called "changing one's standing with God")?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  13. Tangible

    Tangible ن

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    I see what you're saying now. Problem is, I don't see in scripture where there is any talk of the Spirit moving someone toward faith. I see lots of places where God gives the gift of faith, though.
     
  14. SQLservant

    SQLservant Newbie

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    Then I have really butchered things, haven't I? Can it be said that leading up to or even loosely connected with this gift of faith there may be some salient things that one may find especially drawing or convincing, while not detracting from Who does the work?
     
  15. Tangible

    Tangible ن

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    The Spirit convicts of sin through the law, and we respond in sorrow and contrition. I think this precedes conversion, but that it doesn't necessarily lead to conversion as we see with the Rich Young Ruler who was convicted of his sinfulness, yet went away sad.
     
  16. NewUser123

    NewUser123 New Member

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    Nor the Spirit moving someone away from the faith me thinks

    1 Timothy 4:1 And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in subsequent seasons shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings/doctrines/didaskaliaiV <1319> of demons,

    2 Timothy 4:3 for there shall be a season when the sound teaching/doctrine they will not suffer, but according to their own desires, to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
     
  17. x141

    x141 ...

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    ... has given every man the gift of faith.
     
  18. uglytruth

    uglytruth Newbie

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    In my young christian life i have found your view the most eye opening. I dont know why for sure but what you say here speaks to me.


    Thank you.
     
  19. Keachian

    Keachian On Sabbatical

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    Neither has mine, nor anyone else's, as it is written: "None is righteous, no not one." rather it is Christ alone who justifies, Christ alone who judges, if the one who justifies is the one who judges, what then can judge us?

    Category error.

    If you mean that God can convict us of sin through examples of orthodoxy and orthopraxy, then I would agree with you, however this wasn't clear from the post I replied to.
     
  20. motherprayer

    motherprayer Elisha

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    Well, thank YOU! And bless you as well!