Do you think it's Christian to own guns?

[redleghunter]

I think the question is, assuming loving our enemy means standing by and letting them harm our neighbor, why should our obligation to love our enemy be greater than our obligation to love our neighbor?

If we stand by while our neighbor is harmed, how is that loving them?

How does that fulfil the Bible's command to "rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked"?

I agree.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

What's that got to do with our conversation?

The Frenchies have no guns

The Frenchies cannot save themselves.

The Frenchies apparently do not have your jesus to save them from men with guns.

The Frenchies are dead.


So, so much for your gun free utopia.

 

[Ned Netterville]

They've never accepted their Independence like other pre-Commonwealth nations and make this obvious year after year and by hanging on to their guns

Malvina, I don't understand this sentence. What other "pre-Commonwealth nations" are you referring to, which you seem to be saying "have accepted their Independence," while Ameicans have not accepted theirs??? What are pre-Commonwealth nations? And which ones have accepted their independence? And how do the do it. And how does "hanging onto their guns" show a failure among Americans to "accept their independence.

Malvina, as I recall in one of your posts you said something to the effect, "We are not going to take away your guns," or, perhaps you said, "no one is going to take away your guns."

Malvina, I am curious. I wonder if you would agree with me that gun control by government fiat violate the principles Jesus espoused because it can only be accomplished by force, and is a violation of the Jesus' Golden Rule? Alternatively, do you think it is Christian to support gun control?

 

[Ned Netterville]

How does one know if he/she is confident in his/her faith?

Practice makes perfect, or at least makes you better at whatever it is you practice. Faith comes in the same way.

 

[malvina]

BTW, how many Frenchies did God protect from slaughter on the 13th?

What was it? 139 dead....something like that.
BTW, many were shot at a range of 8" to the skull........basically point blank......while begging for their lives.

How many?

We all need to earnestly pray for the Gifs of the Spirit
Self-Control is one of them

 

[malvina]

Malvina, I don't understand this sentence. What other "pre-Commonwealth nations" are you referring to, which you seem to be saying "have accepted their Independence," while Ameicans have not accepted theirs??? What are pre-Commonwealth nations? And which ones have accepted their independence? And how do the do it. And how does "hanging onto their guns" show a failure among Americans to "accept their independence.

Malvina, as I recall in one of your posts you said something to the effect, "We are not going to take away your guns," or, perhaps you said, "no one is going to take away your guns."

Malvina, I am curious. I wonder if you would agree with me that gun control by government fiat violate the principles Jesus espoused because it can only be accomplished by force, and is a violation of the Jesus' Golden Rule? Alternatively, do you think it is Christian to support gun control?

In a nutshell Americans are not free they wouldn't have to desperately hang on to their guns or spend so much time trying to prove it otherwise I am not condemning them for that they have had a raw deal

 

[Ned Netterville]

Allow me to offer a different perspective. I am one of the rare ones who has stood in the presence of Christ and the Light of the Father in paradise (April 12, 1981)

What makes your experience on 4/12/81 rare? Lots of us have that experience routinely.

 

[ldonjohn]

There are two sins that cannot be atoned for.
Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
Suicide, obviously because you are dead, dead people cannot atone for sin.

Only one sin will send a person to hell and that is the sin of "unbelief." The statement that "dead people cannot atone for sin" is true, but no one can atone for his/her sin. There is absolutely nothing any of us could do to atone for our sins since we are sinners. Jesus made the atonement for sin on the cross because He was the only One who had no sin and therefore the only one whose atonement God the Father would accept as "payment" for the sins of the whole world. Without Jesus' finished work on the cross we would all be hopeless, helpless, lost, condemned, and on our way to an eternity in hell.

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

Only one sin will send a person to hell and that is the sin of "unbelief." The statement that "dead people cannot atone for sin" is true, but no one can atone for his/her sin. There is absolutely nothing any of us could do to atone for our sins since we are sinners. Jesus made the atonement for sin on the cross because He was the only One who had no sin and therefore the only one whose atonement God the Father would accept as "payment" for the sins of the whole world. Without Jesus' finished work on the cross we would all be hopeless, helpless, lost, condemned, and on our way to an eternity in hell.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

What Messiah did was a one time atonement. No one has ever been saved, not yet.

Feasts and sacrifices will continue in the Millennium.

All Nations will Worship the King
Zech 14
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.


Isaiah 56:7 “Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Isa 66:23 "And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD. Isa. 66:23 teaches that we will keep the Sabbath, it also teaches we will keep the New Moon festival! This is on earth in the Millennium period- not in heaven."

 

[ldonjohn]

Sorry, but you are wrong.

What Messiah did was a one time atonement. No one has ever been saved, not yet.

Feasts and sacrifices will continue in the Millennium.

All Nations will Worship the King
Zech 14
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.


Isaiah 56:7 “Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Isa 66:23 "And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD. Isa. 66:23 teaches that we will keep the Sabbath, it also teaches we will keep the New Moon festival! This is on earth in the Millennium period- not in heaven."

If you are saying that I am wrong then you are saying that God's Word is wrong. I will refer you to Romans 10:1-13 or many scriptures in the New Testament that tell us if we believe the Gospel that we will be saved. Being saved meaning a new changed life brought about through the Gospel message; the message of the cross and by the power of the Holy Spirit.



Obviously you don't believe the truth of God's Word. I do believe God's Word is the absolute truth and there is absolutely nothing you or anyone else can say that would change my mind about that Truth, because the Holy Spirit convinced me of that Truth. I am one who has been “saved” & changed from relying on “self” to a complete confidence and assurance that my sins are forgiven by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. That is the promise of the Gospel message presented in God's Word.



Well, I am probably boring you with my testimony of how Jesus “saved” me and there is no reason for me to continue so I'll stop here.



God bless you my friend!

 

[Biblicist]

. . .lol, most Americans are very aware of how our government was established with the separation of church and state. We all learn this in school as children, maybe some were not listening. We learn to recite the Bill of Rights, The Preamble, etc. and what they say and why.

When we were visiting Ft. McHenry in Baltimore in 2012, the Park Ranger was surprised to hear an Australian accent asking some fairly detailed questions about the War of 1812. She made the remark that "most Americas know very little about the War of 1812" which is why she was surprised to hear an Australian asking the questions that I did. As my brain seemed to be in some sort of disconnect with my mouth, I replied with "Well, it was the first war that you declared and the first war that you lost"! As the Ranger turned her head not knowing what to say, I suddenly realised my gaffe where I was only trying to be factual, but it was not an appropriate comment to make, particularly as it was Ft. McHenry in 2012 which was the 200th year anniversay of the war . . . not smart at all!

Quest. Are most Americans aware of the roots of the US National Anthem?

Listening to you Aussies it appears that at least some of you have the false impression that US Christians are mostly far, far right extremist and that the majority of gun owners want to take over the country by storm. You are miss informed.

I’m not all that sure that most Australian Christians would really have an opinion regarding the Right Wing of the American church, other than with those who are aware of the NARzie domionists such as Rick Joyner who called for an armed revolt by the US military in 2013. Joyner would be deemed to be one of the more extreme of the looney-tunes who are within the right wing where it does seem that he has a fairly strong following amongst his ranks, but as to how many, who knows. But it would be a long stretch to connect the accentricities of Joyner and his mob with those who own private guns.

Joyner seems to be one of those who proudly declare that they "love their country", but as with many extreme preppers, KKK members, Aryans and "others", this love only seems to go as far as what they can get out of it all.

 

[malvina]

Yeah.....>OK........LOL

God gave me two hands, two feet, and a brain.

He expects me to use them.


Whatever.

He gave you a lot more than that Sheeple that you aren't using

 

[Rev. Jay Randolph]

Yes, it is Christian to own a firearm. The Bible supports defending yourself and those around you. We know Peter carried a sword which was the chosen weapon of that time. Today a handgun is the chosen weapon and is what Peter would of carried. As Christians we are NOT to seek revenge, but we are to protect ourselves and those around us
As the head of your household, you are responsible for all in your home. If anyone in your country has a gun, there is a possibility they could break into your home. If you have somebody who can be at your home in 30 seconds or less to remove that threat, I would say there is no need for you to have a gun

 

[malvina]

Yes, it is Christian to own a firearm. The Bible supports defending yourself and those around you. We know Peter carried a sword which was the chosen weapon of that time. Today a handgun is the chosen weapon and is what Peter would of carried. As Christians we are NOT to seek revenge, but we are to protect ourselves and those around us
As the head of your household, you are responsible for all in your home. If anyone in your country has a gun, there is a possibility they could break into your home. If you have somebody who can be at your home in 30 seconds or less to remove that threat, I would say there is no need for you to have a gun

So you think all the shootings in USA as a result of so many guns available are acceptable? Under these circumstances I cannot see it is Christian to own one

 

[Sheeple Shepherd]

If you are saying that I am wrong then you are saying that God's Word is wrong. I will refer you to Romans 10:1-13 or many scriptures in the New Testament that tell us if we believe the Gospel that we will be saved. Being saved meaning a new changed life brought about through the Gospel message; the message of the cross and by the power of the Holy Spirit.



Obviously you don't believe the truth of God's Word. I do believe God's Word is the absolute truth and there is absolutely nothing you or anyone else can say that would change my mind about that Truth, because the Holy Spirit convinced me of that Truth. I am one who has been “saved” & changed from relying on “self” to a complete confidence and assurance that my sins are forgiven by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross. That is the promise of the Gospel message presented in God's Word.



Well, I am probably boring you with my testimony of how Jesus “saved” me and there is no reason for me to continue so I'll stop here.



God bless you my friend!

I'm not going to debate this here.......but the short of it is.......

Christians divide the word, it is ONE Word. Your POV is of individual salvation yet you believe you are of the Bride of Christ. The Bride is Israel, which includes Judah, they will again become ONE.
Messiah was murdered on the stake to redeem Israel, the Bride, the WHOLE of the family of God. God will again marry Israel.
God gives us his instruction, to follow his instruction is to be a part of the WHOLE, Israel, the Bride, the family. If you were to read the OT you'd realize that God created family, HIS family is of the highest importance to him.

You are either in, or out, no other way to look at it.

 

[nomadictheist]

So you think all the shootings in USA as a result of so many guns available are acceptable? Under these circumstances I cannot see it is Christian to own one

><

So you think all the vehicular deaths in the USA as a result of so many cars available are acceptable? Under the circumstances I cannot see it is Christian to own one.

So you think the number of people using inappropriate contentography on their computers in the USA is acceptable? Under the circumstances I cannot see it is Christian to own one.

So you think all the spousal abuse in the USA is acceptable? Under the circumstances, I don't think it's Christian to get married.

So you think all the air pollution caused by power plants in the USA is acceptable? Under the circumstances, I don't think it's Christian to have electricity.

Shall I go on following your line of reasoning for everything else that you use in life?

 

[malvina]

What a ridiculous reply. Truth is I do not live in the country that allows their kids to be slain in their schools rather than give up their guns - oh of course they are just conspiracies!. Little kids weren't killed in Sandy Hook that was a fantasy- all the slain kids are conspiracies - it is all so very sad

 

[nomadictheist]

What a ridiculous reply. Truth is I do not live in the country that allows their kids to be slain in their schools rather than give up their guns - oh of course they are just conspiracies!. Little kids weren't killed in Sandy Hook that was a fantasy- all the slain kids are conspiracies - it is all so very sad

Again... ><

First of all, this has absolutely no bearing on whether owning guns is "Christian" or "Non-Christian." It only speaks to what any true Christian already knows... that there will be evil people in the world, and these evil people will use whatever weapons they have to do evil things. Whether that's a gun, a sword, a crossbow, a car, etc.

Secondly, if, say, school security officers and staff were trained in and allowed to use guns, things like this would be much less likely to happen. It's funny how you bring up an example of how evil people with guns go into a place where nobody's allowed to carry a gun to kill people to prove that we shouldn't be allowed to carry guns.

And, again, hunting is also a very popular activity in America, as it is in Australia.

And last of all, if gun control is so effective, why is it that there are still gun-related deaths (both homicides and suicides) in Australia?

So get off your high horse and, as the Bible says, don't judge your brothers and sisters in Christ.

And as a side note, it's good forum etiquette to tag people in posts that you respond to. I wouldn't have even realize you posted this if I hadn't happened to still be on.

 

[malvina]

Again... ><

First of all, this has absolutely no bearing on whether owning guns is "Christian" or "Non-Christian." It only speaks to what any true Christian already knows... that there will be evil people in the world, and these evil people will use whatever weapons they have to do evil things. Whether that's a gun, a sword, a crossbow, a car, etc.

Secondly, if, say, school security officers and staff were trained in and allowed to use guns, things like this would be much less likely to happen. It's funny how you bring up an example of how evil people with guns go into a place where nobody's allowed to carry a gun to kill people to prove that we shouldn't be allowed to carry guns.

And, again, hunting is also a very popular activity in America, as it is in Australia.

And last of all, if gun control is so effective, why is it that there are still gun-related deaths (both homicides and suicides) in Australia?

So get off your high horse and, as the Bible says, don't judge your brothers and sisters in Christ.

And as a side note, it's good forum etiquette to tag people in posts that you respond to. I wouldn't have even realize you posted this if I hadn't happened to still be on.

We still have some guns in Australia unfortunately but of course nothing compared to what you have. Deaths from guns here is minimal in comparison - and so many kids! Your poor kids take their lives in their hands when they attend colleges while their parents just look on and nod their heads

 

[Hank77]

Quest. Are most Americans aware of the roots of the US National Anthem?

The story about Keyes and the anthem is taught in elementary school American History.

Little kids weren't killed in Sandy Hook that was a fantasy- all the slain kids are conspiracies - it is all so very sad

I knew it malvina reads conspiracy theories and then uses them to insult Americans. Then lectures American Christians about what are the acceptable behaviors of a Christian.
There are loonie tunes everywhere, even in Australia.