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Do gays pushing for gay marriage realize what they are asking Christians to accept?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Autumnleaf, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. Autumnleaf

    Autumnleaf Legend

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    They are asking not only for sodomy to be recognized as normal, but on top of that they are asking that the traditional relationship between man and woman where children are created is to be legally synonymous with two sodomites engaging in what God's word calls a grave sin.

    I've heard it said that white people don't have culture. That is a lie. White people have a Christian culture that is being torn apart at the seams by special interest groups such as this. You don't hear about Jewish or Muslim people pushing for gay marriage recognition in Israel or Iran. But for some reason it is being pushed in America and Europe.
     
  2. Staccato

    Staccato Tarut keeps on dreaming Supporter

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    Really? I thought they were just asking for the morality of such relationships to be up to individual people and not rely on the state to legislate it for them. Oh, and the whole equality before the law thing. That too.
     
  3. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Well, that is incorrect. (Dare I say "a lie"? No, I´ll stay with "incorrect".)

    Sexual activity between persons of the same sex is already legal in western countries. That includes "sodomy" - whatever you want to subsume under this term.

    So gays are not asking you to accept anything more in regard to sexuality as married couples asking you to accept that they can legally engage in anal or oral sex.

    Marriage is also - and has for most of the time been - much more than "the relationship where children are produced". As has been stated many times before, having children - or even desiring to have children is no prerequisite for a legal marriage.

    And lastly, even in Israel people are fighting - and to a degree winning - to have their unions accepted. I´m sure that gay muslim would like to do so either, but the athmosphere in the islamic world does not allow that. But it is a human problem, not a "western" one.
     
  4. YamiB

    YamiB Regular Member

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    I'd assume they're asking you to accept that the country is not a theocracy and that there is no valid reason to deny them these rights in the legal realm.
     
  5. Robbie_James_Francis

    Robbie_James_Francis May all beings have happiness and its causes

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    That we are permitted to have equal civil liberties? Simply, that in between anyone being allowed to register complaint, offense or disagreement with gay relationships that civil law and society, that crucially impartial observer before whom all are equal in dignity and rights, permits us to the pursuit of happiness.

    What is being asked of is for you to give up your despotic and authoritarian aspirations and come to (finally) accept the fundamental principles of liberal democracy that already give you so many freedoms.

    Or move to Saudi Arabia and live the theocratic dream.

    Of course, it's me that's trying to tear apart the fabric of ("white" apparently), "Christian" America and Europe. I'm not in the majority, I don't blindly follow any curtailing of civil liberty for supposed security and I rarely engage in mindless flag-waving and nation-worship. I just have respect for the principles at the heart of free countries, unlike the OP.
     
  6. TeddyKGB

    TeddyKGB A dude playin' a dude disgused as another dude

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    Better panic; it might lead to atheists marrying other atheists.

    Oops.
    This is so transcendentally dumb that the flippant response I had planned seems decidedly second-rate in comparison. Congrats, you have effectively parodied yourself.
     
    morningstar2651 likes this.
  7. The Nihilist

    The Nihilist Contributor

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    Man, that's no big deal. I spend every Saturday night trying to convince my girlfriend that sodomy is perfectly fine. I guess that if I succeeded, I'd be doing that second part, too.
     
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  8. ALiberalTeen

    ALiberalTeen Guest

    First of all, what people find normal depends on the person.

    About gay marriage, honestly...too bad. Religion isn't the end all for american politics, not everybody shares your beliefs.
     
    FlamingFemme likes this.
  9. cgcsb

    cgcsb Newbie

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    Sodomy is already recognised is normal for straight and gay couples. Not that people's private lives are any of your concern. In a secular society, people don't really care what you consider sin or not. If you really cared about sinners, you would protest at apartment blocks because they encourage people to live together outside of wed lock, and all sin is equal in the bible. How does two men who are in love getting married tear apart your ever so important white supremisist culture?

    For the record, Isreal is considered a western nation and politically(though not geographically) European. Isreal recognises foreign gay marriages and they have civil unions that will eventually become marriage.

    Church and State are seperate (in theory)
    You are really one of the most offensive people i've ever seen
     
  10. explodingboy

    explodingboy Guest

    Perhaps if you stopped picking on them, they would not have to push back so hard and then everyone could just get along. Currently until they have Gay marriage it seems that Christian will make every possible loop hole to keep Gays from having all there rights. With the continual passing of civil partnerships, the response we've seen is from the Christian right is Adoption laws were adopties Must be married and they don't even hide the fact it's to stop Gay people from using the adoption system.

    Odd, my White culture was far from Christian.. The white culture I see came from scientific breakthroughs that allow us Whites (feel free to Westerners, its somewhat more accurate of the population on a whole) to really expand are horizons and question why we do what we do. Western Culture isn't about following Christianity, It's about being free to ask why we believe what we believe.

    probably because in those countries they can't even come out of the closet without being attacked, Look for news of pride marches though and you'll see a very different picture of people pushing to be able to express themselves even in those countries. Things happen one step at a time.
     
  11. Maren

    Maren Veteran

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    Sodomy is already recognized as normal. If you wish to change that in the US, you need to pass a Federal Constitutional Amendment to outlaw sodomy (though you'll need to clarify it is only gay sodomy you are talking about but all sodomy).


    You mean like those evil atheists that can marry in your traditional relationship and raise children in what Christ called the Greatest (or gravest, if you prefer) sin? Seems that Christians want to cherry pick what sins disqualify people for marriage. Though they don't answer why the government should legislate based on what they think "sin" is.

    Actually, it isn't a lie. There is no single culture that binds all White people together. I've seen several "White cultures", the culture in Germany is different than the culture in Belgium. For that matter, the culture in Belgium even differs somewhat depending on if you are in the North (the Flemish who are Dutch speaking) or the South (the Walloons who are French speaking). And then the Walloon culture is somewhat different from French culture, just as the Flemish culture is different from the culture in Holland. Sure, many of these cultures have some items in common but they still have plenty of differences.

    And Christmas is not recognized by the government in Israel or Iraq as a holiday, nor are Christians pushing for it. Perhaps that means we should not have Christmas as a government recognized holiday in the US? Or perhaps it is a logical fallacy to claim that just because something is happening in a different country (or not happening) that it should happen in this country.
     
  12. Beanieboy

    Beanieboy Senior Veteran

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    2 posts that mirror my OP? Well, imitation is the greatest flattery.

    Do Hindus realize what they are asking of Christians? They are asking them to deny the belief that only through Christ will people come to God! They demand Christians to deny Christ, and the Word! And they will raise little Hindu children praying to Elephant head gods, and lead them to hell!

    Except, you let them live their lives, and they allow you to live yours.

    My OP, by contrast, was simply trying to make sure that Christians saying, "leave the gay 'lifestyle' ", who often seem to be thinking it is something like, quitting smoking, a habit you give up, a simple "act", and nothing more, like giving up chew that you spit into a nasty bottle, but that the "gay lifestyle" is a gay life, which includes houses couples buy together, relationships of love, support, companionship, etc.

    I don't ask you to leave your spouse. I don't ask you to admit that you love for your spouse is just lust, because I know your heart. I don't use Paul to say that the only reason that straight people marry, rather than remain single, is because they are weak in the flesh, instead of strong like Jesus and Paul, and the disciples, while not demanding celibacy of myself.

    I don't ask you to change your religious beliefs. I don't ask you to be approving, or give me your blessing. My understanding of Christianity is that I give love, rather than ask others to earn it, because that is how it is given to me. You can even say that God hates me, and that I am no Christian. Be my guest.

    Rather, my only real sin against heterosexuals, is to simply being treated as an equal under the law.
    You don't have to approve of me at all, much the same way you don't have to approve of Hinduism.

    And if that is asking too much, I'm sorry.
     
  13. Axioma

    Axioma Eccentric, Culture Ulterior (Absconded)

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    And here I was hoping for an actual explanation of how we go from homosexuals being allowed to marry their loved ones to the complete and utter destruction of marriage. I mean, I'm certain there has to exist SOME MECHANISM by which these people getting marries will cause long-standing heterosexual marriage to simply fall apart and disintegrate into dust, if only someone were to tell us what that mechanism is...

    Maybe it's got something to do with resonance frequencies...Like, suppose that homosexuals have a special voice that's attuned in such a way that pronouncing the words "I do" causes neurons in people's brains to vibrate and misfire and makes them unable to think about anything but divorce.

    I could be on to something here. I'll need a grant to research this in depth.
     
  14. praying

    praying Snazzy Title Goes Here Supporter

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    :scratch: What do white people and their culture or lack there of have to do with anything?


    I don't think homosexuals are asking Christians to accept anything, they simply want the same right you have to marry the partner of their choosing regardless of gender.
     
  15. praying

    praying Snazzy Title Goes Here Supporter

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    I know that had me scratching my head. Really it all comes out in the wash what motivates people.
     
  16. Jade Margery

    Jade Margery Stranger in a strange land

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    Am very confused. OP identifies himself as Unitarian Universalist, yet UU's are usually pretty tolerant and liberal (and a bit flaky, but that's okay). I should know, I grew up in a UU church and participated in many aspects of worship.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/u-u.htm

    Maybe Autumnleaf clicked the wrong religion in the drop box?
     
  17. QuakerOats

    QuakerOats — ♥ — Living in Love — ♥ —

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    He could be simply Unitarian. <staff edit>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2009
  18. HighwayMan

    HighwayMan Riding, Riding...

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    Suggestion: create your own country where only those who prescribe to your point of view are allowed. That way you can not only have anti-gay laws, you'll have no gays at all.

    But unless you are completely and utterly delusional, America is filled with people of different races and orientations and there is absolutely no way that you can stop social progress, try as you may.
     
  19. Polycarp_fan

    Polycarp_fan New Member

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    Didn't the original American bound european people come to this land for Christian reasons?

    The OP is a good one in that Christians are being demanded of to celebrate anti-Christian ways or else suffer secular sanctions. Someone had to answer all of the gay activism threads trying to attach itself to Christian reality.
     
  20. OphidiaPhile

    OphidiaPhile New Member

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    You don't have to celebrate anything but you have no logical reason that can stand up in a court of law to deny others their civil rights based upon any religious concept.
     
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