Do Christians Willingly Sin?

[Archivist]

In another thread a comment was made that "homosexuals, inappropriate content stars and druggies" will not go to heaven, but those people who are called "Bible thumpers" will be there.

My response to that statement was as follows:

"All those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, who have confessed their sins and repented will be in heaven. Yes, that will include many "homosexuals, inappropriate content stars and druggies." And yes, many self-righteous "Bible thumpers," those who might proclaim Jesus with their lips but who have not accepted him in their hearts, will not be there."

I went on to explain that if a drug user who has accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior says "God I'm trying to get off drugs--please forgive me and give me strength" and honestly tries but continues to fail, God will forgive him of his sins.

This was attacked, with one poster saying that Christians do not willingly sin, and that if they do sin it is only "by mistake." Further, he said that merely thinking something wasn't sin. One other poster said that "those born of god cannot continue to sin and do not continue to sin," and those who do continue in their sin "not for one moment will they know heaven."

That came as a surprise to me. I have always believed, as the Bible tells us, that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that while we should try to not sin the fact is that we are going to do so. Overweight people will overeat. Men will look at attractive women with lust in their hearts, and some women will look at attractive men with those same feelings. We will not always completely forgive those who wrong us. In my ELCA church we confess our sins using these words:

"We confess that we are in bondage to sin, and cannot free ourselves. We have sinned against you in thought, word and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart, we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. For the sake of your son, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us and lead us, so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways, to the glory of your holy name. Amen."

Because that argument was off-topic in that thread, I wanted to start a new thread on this issue. BTW, you will notice that I have not identified the thread or the posters in that thread. If they want to post here they are welcome to do so.

So, the question is can one be a Christian and willingly sin? I say yes; Jesus doesn't want us to sin, but He knows it will happen and He is in the forgiveness business.

Thoughts?

 

[Greg J.]

If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. (1 John 1:10, 1984 NIV)

Scripture supports your view many times over and rebukes the other points of view many times over, as well. Sometimes this sort of thing is confusing because people haven't drawn a distinction between our legal standing with God and the state of our relationship with God.

However, the "ELCA confession for sins" is written such that it is a good prayer for a non-Christian to make for salvation, but not a good prayer to be prayed by those who believe in and have turned their hearts over to Jesus. Jesus freed us from the bondage of slavery to sin. When we sin we make ourselves a little more slaves to sin, but we don't become 100% slaves to that sin again. Some of the prayer tries to revive into our hearts attributes of the "old man" which is dead.

 

[Alithis]

In another thread a comment was made that "homosexuals, inappropriate content stars and druggies" will not go to heaven, but those people who are called "Bible thumpers" will be there.

My response to that statement was as follows:

"All those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, who have confessed their sins and repented will be in heaven. Yes, that will include many "homosexuals, inappropriate content stars and druggies." And yes, many self-righteous "Bible thumpers," those who might proclaim Jesus with their lips but who have not accepted him in their hearts, will not be there."

I went on to explain that if a drug user who has accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior says "God I'm trying to get off drugs--please forgive me and give me strength" and honestly tries but continues to fail, God will forgive him of his sins.

This was attacked, with one poster saying that Christians do not willingly sin, and that if they do sin it is only "by mistake." Further, he said that merely thinking something wasn't sin. One other poster said that "those born of god cannot continue to sin and do not continue to sin," and those who do continue in their sin "not for one moment will they know heaven."

That came as a surprise to me. I have always believed, as the Bible tells us, that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that while we should try to not sin the fact is that we are going to do so. Overweight people will overeat. Men will look at attractive women with lust in their hearts, and some women will look at attractive men with those same feelings. We will not always completely forgive those who wrong us. In my ELCA church we confess our sins using these words:

"We confess that we are in bondage to sin, and cannot free ourselves. We have sinned against you in thought, word and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart, we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. For the sake of your son, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us and lead us, so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways, to the glory of your holy name. Amen."

Because that argument was off-topic in that thread, I wanted to start a new thread on this issue. BTW, you will notice that I have not identified the thread or the posters in that thread. If they want to post here they are welcome to do so.

So, the question is can one be a Christian and willingly sin? I say yes; Jesus doesn't want us to sin, but He knows it will happen and He is in the forgiveness business.

Thoughts?

All this is basicly saying is that You.. Do not believe what the lord jesus came to do,or, you do not desire to leave your sin behind.

 

[Archivist]

All this is basicly saying is that You.. Do not believe what the lord jesus came to do,or, you do not desire to leave your sin behind.

None of us leave our sin behind. We all sin, even if we try not to. The Bible makes that clear. Jesus didn't come to make us perfect, He came to offer us forgiveness.

 

[Freedom Now]

None of us leave our sin behind. We all sin, even if we try not to. The Bible makes that clear. Jesus didn't come to make us perfect, He came to offer us forgiveness.

Would you be so kind to offer us scriptural support for your statements.....

And remember according to scriptures, truth is established by at least 2 or 3 witnesses...


Thank you

 

[Alithis]

None of us leave our sin behind. We all sin, even if we try not to. The Bible makes that clear. Jesus didn't come to make us perfect, He came to offer us forgiveness.

Great..so if i go jump in bed with my nieghbors wife and the lord returns while we busy at it... i will be caught up into the air to be with him forever..right? Thats what you just said.
What a pack of lies.
Jesus came to free us from our sin ..no longer servants to it .its not our master any more .we do not have to serve it..if we do we reject christ and to serve sin.
jesus said you cannot serve two masters.
who is your master?
You declaring sin to be your master..

 

[Alithis]

Jesus said repentance is to be preached for the forgivness of sin...
sibcd repentace means to rethink.to change your mind and go the other way and agree with God.
so if you go back and do an action that disagrees with Gods direct word.then you have NOT repented.and you are not forgiven.

 

[Alithis]

None of us leave our sin behind. We all sin, even if we try not to. The Bible makes that clear. Jesus didn't come to make us perfect, He came to offer us forgiveness.

The word of god does not agree with you..for when we are buried in christ by baptism...the old is gone..left behind..the only way it cones back is when you choose to go back and get it..like lots wife.

 

[Alithis]

One other poster said that "those born of god cannot continue to sin and donot continue to sin,"

.....
i said that..others too.
you know why i said that..
because im quoting from 1john ch 3.

Dude..you need to read the letter they wrote..not just the sentance you like.

 

[Archivist]

Would you be so kind to offer us scriptural support for your statements.....

And remember according to scriptures, truth is established by at least 2 or 3 witnesses...


Thank you

Certainly.

1 John 1:8-10 "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Romans 7:15- "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Matthew 6:12 "And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

It is also worth reading this from the Rev. Billy Graham:

"Nowhere does the Bible say that a Christian in this life will ever be completely perfect—that is, free from all sin (1 John 1:8).

As long as we are on this earth, we will always struggle against temptation and sin. That is one reason Jesus taught His disciples to pray (in The Lord’s Prayer), “Forgive us our sins … And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one” (Luke 11:4, Matthew 6:13).

Sometimes we sin by our actions; sometimes by our motives. Often we sin not because of what we do, but because of what we fail to do. For example, we fail to love or forgive others, or in other ways fail to do things we ought to do—and that is sin.

However, there are three important truths we need to repeat over and over to ourselves. First, just because we sin does not mean we are no longer God’s children. Our fellowship with God may be broken, but our relationship is not. Second, when we sin God stands ready to forgive us, and we need to turn to Him immediately.

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). Third, God wants to help us (through His Holy Spirit, who lives within every believer) to avoid sin in the future. “Live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature” (Galatians 5:16).

Thank God that you belong to Christ, and thank Him for His grace and forgiveness when you do sin—and for strength to overcome future temptation. “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1)."

 

[Archivist]

Great..so if i go jump in bed with my nieghbors wife and the lord returns while we busy at it... i will be caught up into the air to be with him forever..right? Thats what you just said.
What a pack of lies.
Jesus came to free us from our sin ..no longer servants to it .its not our master any more .we do not have to serve it..if we do we reject christ and to serve sin.
jesus said you cannot serve two masters.

Why would you even think of jumping into bed with your neighbor's wife?

You really need to study scripture. Jesus came to forgive us of our sins. But we still sin, each and every one of us. That is why we need to confess our sins and ask for forgiveness.

who is your master?
You declaring sin to be your master..

No, that is why Christ died on a cross and rose from the dead. But we all still sin. I sin. You sin.

 

[Archivist]

Jesus said repentance is to be preached for the forgivness of sin...
sibcd repentace means to rethink.to change your mind and go the other way and agree with God.
so if you go back and do an action that disagrees with Gods direct word.then you have NOT repented.and you are not forgiven.

Have you ever looked at a woman lustfully? That's sin. My guess is that you have probably done it multiple times. How many people in your church are overweight? Over-indulgence and over-consumption of food, drink, or wealth is gluttony. That's sin. Don't tell me that you don't sin, you do. Scripture tells us that we all do.

 

[Hieronymus]

Jesus said repentance is to be preached for the forgivness of sin...
sibcd repentace means to rethink.to change your mind and go the other way and agree with God.
so if you go back and do an action that disagrees with Gods direct word.then you have NOT repented.and you are not forgiven.

We're allowed to make mistakes.

 

[Archivist]

One other poster said that "those born of god cannot continue to sin and donot continue to sin,"

.....
i said that..others too.
you know why i said that..
because im quoting from 1john ch 3.

Dude..you need to read the letter they wrote..not just the sentance you like.

Well "dude" you need to read all of John, not just one chapter.

And please note, I have never said that we should go on sinning just because we are forgiven. We should make every effort to turn from our sins. But we are going to fail and sin again and again. Some of this will be intentional, more often than not we won't even realize that we are doing it.

 

[LaSorcia]

Maybe it would help to differentiate between intentional and besetting sins. Intentional sins are wrong things that are done on purpose, even though you know it's wrong. These sins should be rare, and can even be non-existent one day perhaps.

Besetting sins are acts that one doesn't even realize that one is doing, or realize that they are wrong, or one knows it is wrong but feels powerless to overcome. This might include things like habitually overeating, addiction, gossiping. On a more subtle level it's things like selfishness, uncharitable thoughts about others, passing by someone in need because it's not seen as your responsibility.

I think people struggle with besetting sins more/longer than intentional ones if they are on the path of righteousness. How can you stop a sin if you don't even know you're sinning? Eventually, the Holy Spirit will make you aware of these things and give you the power to change. But the Spirit does it when you're ready and able to change.

If we call ourselves Christians and are living our daily lives intentionally sinning and not caring, then something really is wrong. Our consciences will begin to stop warning us, we will not hear the promptings of the Spirit as well. Are we saved? Well, that is up to God, who alone knows what is truly in a person's heart.

 

[Archivist]

These words from Pope Francis are on point: " “Lord, look . . . this is how I am.” We are often ashamed to tell the truth: “I did this, I thought this.” But shame is a true Christian virtue, and even human . . . . You need to stand in front of the Lord “with our truth of sinners.” . . . We must never masquerade before God . . . . This is the virtue that Jesus asks of us: humility and meekness."

 

[Archivist]

We're allowed to make mistakes.

We are forgiven, but we are all still sinners.

 

[LaSorcia]

These words from Pope Francis are on point: " “Lord, look . . . this is how I am.” We are often ashamed to tell the truth: “I did this, I thought this.” But shame is a true Christian virtue, and even human . . . . You need to stand in front of the Lord “with our truth of sinners.” . . . We must never masquerade before God . . . . This is the virtue that Jesus asks of us: humility and meekness."

Spiritually, it's kind of like agreeing to walk slowly down the street in our underwear! But God graciously clothes us in righteousness.

 

[Alithis]

Well "dude" you need to read all of John, not just one chapter.

And please note, I have never said that we should go on sinning just because we are forgiven. We should make every effort to turn from our sins. But we are going to fail and sin again and again. Some of this will be intentional, more often than not we won't even realize that we are doing it.

Why..where does the scripture say you are to willfully sin .
The very fact you say that shows intent
Which means you have not yet repented.
The scriptures states there is no more any sacrifice for willfull sin .
Jesus came to set us free..if free ,then there is no power on earth that can force us to do so.we must rebel against god.and if we do that,then again we are not repentant . people arevery decieved if they think they cakn go on sinning and be saved.
Repentance is not a single act,it is an abiding state we remain in and perservere in and endure in ..for it is only those who endure to the end ,that are saved.

 

[Alithis]

These words from Pope Francis are on point: " “Lord, look . . . this is how I am.” We are often ashamed to tell the truth: “I did this, I thought this.” But shame is a true Christian virtue, and even human . . . . You need to stand in front of the Lord “with our truth of sinners.” . . . We must never masquerade before God . . . . This is the virtue that Jesus asks of us: humility and meekness."

Dont ever bother to quote himagain ..he is no authority on anything to me i do not recognize him at all nor have any part with him..the very fact you try to validate a non scriptural stance by using the words or a mere man speaks no end .