Do all SDA?s believe that Gentiles are not a part of the New Covenant?

[BIBLE TIMES]

I'll say it again:

Either Christ is a sufficient Sacrifice and is our High Hierarch or He's a false Messiah.

Enjoy shrimp and cheeseburgers! Wear polyester! Do something on Saturdays!

Or think otherwise and implicitly believe Christ failed.

I choose the former.

I think on Monday,it is all you can eat shrimp at the buffet.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Yes, I understand that. It is pretty straightforward. Believers under the New Covenant are saved on the basis of Christ's completed, perfect atonement on Calvary. His perfect life is credited to the repentant believer, and Christ's death on the cross paid the penalty for his sins. THAT, to me, is the NEW covenant. Unlike the OC, under which the Jews said, 'All that God has said we will do,' under the NC we ACCEPT what Christ has done and that is credited to us for righteousness.

Yes.That is why it is an illusion for SDA's,and the messianics to preach the law.No one could do it.Break one,you break them all.

The law was added to make the tresspass increase.(Rom 5:20)


keep all the law verses

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

John 7:19
Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?"

Romans 2:25
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Galatians 5:3
Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Galatians 6:13
For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.


The flesh loves the law.Paul said in Phillipinas,"not having MY OWN righteousness from the law.

Grace is from weakness.

So what is comes down to,is some groups pick and choose the laws that suits them.Paul said it is a new law now.A law of faith.Romans 3:27.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

The old Cov was ended.The laws were a part of that.

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:18
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 8:7
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Hebrews 10:9
Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second.(cov)

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

The flesh has a built in revulsion to grace, because if it's all grace then we cannot boast or take any credit. So, instead of receiving grace for our whole lives, we limit it to our initial salvation experience and then construct an elaborate new system which may differ from group to group but basically says "God's power is dependent upon my efforts"

The flesh rejoices because it once again can take credit for successes, and so we go merrily along, publicly saying it's all God and secretly relishing our great knowledge.

The old nature tries to make us think we need his help in order to be a better Christian. Then the noble thoughts come, like, God can only use a holy vessel, so let’s work hard at making you holy. And off we go trying to attain through our own efforts what God has already granted, namely holiness.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Love is not at variance with the commandments. The 10 commandments are all about love. It is a shame that you fail to see that.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The illusion of the law is that, though one may keep the externals some.Inside one can have every desire to eat shrimp,go to the pork barebeque,work on Saturaday,and like Paul,have the desire to covet.

 

[archierieus]

Yes, that is certainly part of it, but that's not the only part and I think that is a major stumbling block for alot of Christians.

Okay, hold on. 'a part of it'? Is salvation, according to your understanding, based on your works?

 

[Xenon]

Yes.That is why it is an illusion for SDA's,and the messianics to preach the law.No one could do it.Break one,you break them all.

When Jesus told the former paralytic to "...sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you", was He giving him an impossible command?

 

[RND]

Okay, hold on. 'a part of it'?

Yes, 'part of it.'

Is salvation, according to your understanding, based on your works?

No. Is faith without works? Where there is faith works follow. Faith without works is dead.

 

[RND]

I am not a part of the nation of Isreal and I never have Been.

What a shame.

I am born into Christ.

Right and Christ is Israel. You become "adopted" into the family. A fellowcitizen."

Christ is the King of the whole world and not just the nation of Isreal.

Israel is type for the "whole world."

So therefore with the new covenant we are all of Him. Not Isreal. We do obey His commandments.. He gave two commandments and they all have to do with Love and not law.

Those two commandments were given to Israel therefore they, by extension, aren't required of anyone but an Israelite.

Love is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

Just as it always has been.

The law is an external covenant.

Have you ever read David?

We are not born of the Law but born of the Spirit.

Without the Spirit one cannot hope to obey God's law.

Therefore we walk by the Spirit.

And the Spirit upholds God's law.

Have you not read that all things become new?

Yes. That's why we learn to hate "sin."

We have a new High Priest that is forever.

Right. A mediator between God and man. To bridge the gap between the law and lawlessness.

Our salvation is not subject to the law.

Our salvation is necessary because of the law.

Our salvation is bought and paid for through Christ our King.

Right and our salvation isn't a license to sin.

He is our righteousness and it depends on being born again and not living the law.

Correct, He is our righteousness and He never broke the law.

 

[RND]

Either Christ is a sufficient Sacrifice and is our High Hierarch or He's a false Messiah.

If Christ is sufficient we should walk even as He walked.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Enjoy shrimp and cheeseburgers! Wear polyester! Do something on Saturdays!

Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Or think otherwise and implicitly believe Christ failed.

Or succeeded in upholding the law of God by being subject to it.

I choose the former.

Or, in other words, "I'll do what I want, when I want, regardless of what Christ has done for me."

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God.

 

[archierieus]

Yes, 'part of it.'



No. Is faith without works? Where there is faith works follow. Faith without works is dead.

But that is not the question here. Is your salvation based upon your works. You said no, but then you seem to be qualifying that. Are your, or any person's works meritorious in the sight of a holy God? Do you recognize the sinfulness of humanity? Our most rigorous efforts are polluted with sinfulness. Would you agree?

 

[RND]

But that is not the question here. Is your salvation based upon your works. You said no, but then you seem to be qualifying that.

I'm not "qualifying" anything but the Bible surely does. One can utter the name Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior but have no faith displayed in any shape, manner and form.

Are your, or any person's works meritorious in the sight of a holy God?

No. So are you saying that we should have no works?

Do you recognize the sinfulness of humanity?

Sinfulness? I'm consistently told on these forums that we aren't under law but under grace. No law, no sin. Ergo, without the law there can be no sin. Everyone is therefore sinless.

Our most rigorous efforts are polluted with sinfulness. Would you agree?

Depends on who you are attempting to pigeonhole. Are you referring to the converted or the unconverted?

The converted do their good works because they know those works are from God and they bring honor and glory to God the Father. Because they know these works are a display of His righteousness, mercy and grace they can take no credit whatsoever for any of these things. Without Christ we can do nothing.

The unconverted do their works to be seen of men, to seek the glory and honor of men and never give proper due to Him that makes all goodness possible.

A converted heart that does the things they do to give honor and glory to God the Father can be assured that all motives are pure, sanctified and blessed especially by God. Therefore I would not agree that our most rigorous efforts are polluted with sinfulness.

 

[RND]

RND, so you don't believe Christ is the Sacrifice?

Last and final.

You don't if you make doctrine out of shrimp and polyester.

You mean God's advice was no good about shrimp and pork? How come you don't eat gophers and kangaroos then? Rats and bats? Why eliminate those from your diet?

BTW, is it mixed linen and wool or polyester blends?

What does clothing represent in the Bible? What does wool represent? Flax?

You don't when you make Saturday mandatory Sabbath.

Jesus kept Saturday holy, and since He created the seventh-day I'll follow His advice.

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

You don't when you say we must follow koshier and cannot eat meat.

You ever said anything about eating "kosher" and being prohibited from eating meat. I eat loads of fish myself.

I'll tell you what, if you can ever find any comments I have ever made about eating kosher and being prohibited from eating mean I won't ask you to retract this statement.

Until you do, please, retract this statement as knowing it's never come from me. Thank you.

Your words prove that you do not believe Gentiles are a part of the New Covenant. That is contrary to God's Son.

If gentiles do not embrace the words of the Son of God then that is true....they aren't part of the NC. One can say all day long the "believe" in Jesus, but if they refuse to hear Him or obey Him they they have no part of His kingdom.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Any big-mouth burgers available?!

I take a .5 ilb burg with lite mayo, lettuce, tomato, onion, with red and yellow on a sesame seed bun.

Where's the beef?

RND, so you don't believe Christ is the Sacrifice? You don't if you make doctrine out of shrimp and polyester. You don't when you make Saturday mandatory Sabbath. You don't when you say we must follow koshier and cannot eat meat.

Your words prove that you do not believe Gentiles are a part of the New Covenant. That is contrary to God's Son.

yes,he is picking and choosing,which laws he likes.Like a buffet!

 

[Stryder06]

Yes, I understand that. It is pretty straightforward. Believers under the New Covenant are saved on the basis of Christ's completed, perfect atonement on Calvary. His perfect life is credited to the repentant believer, and Christ's death on the cross paid the penalty for his sins. THAT, to me, is the NEW covenant. Unlike the OC, under which the Jews said, 'All that God has said we will do,' under the NC we ACCEPT what Christ has done and that is credited to us for righteousness.

I'm sure this has already been addressed since I haven't finished reviewing the thread, but OC believers were saved the same way NC believers are, by Christ and His merits alone.

 

[RND]

**Offers him a shrimp**

Enjoy then.

Politely declines.

He is the Great Hierarch. He's the Atoning Sacrifice. What part of that is that you have a hard time understanding? What it means, is that the ritual/holiness code has been nailed to the cross.

Did He die on the cross so you could mock God's good advice?

So as I said; enjoy the shrimp. Hurry, because otherwise, all the orthodox Christians who claim Jesus as their Hierarch and Messiah will eat them all!

If they wish.

I'm sorry, but is that truly your best argument?

Why not answer the question? Of course the best argument is that obeying God is always the right thing to do.

First off, how do you know whether I eat those things or not?

Why would I care?

Sure I haven't had roadkill? Worth enough betting some money on? Is this some sort of prophecy perhaps? You make a flying list of implied accusations with absolutely no proof but non-sequeter/out-of-the-blue claims.

Claims? I just asked a few questions.

"How come you don't eat gophers and kangaroos then? Rats and bats? Why eliminate those from your diet?"

Second of all, many people don't include them because they either don't care to try or simply don't like the taste. That's an entirely different thing than to make a doctrinal issue out of it. Different animal entirely.

Prohibited by the word of God none-the-less.

What does it matter?

Because there is a lesson to be learned there.

God doesn't care what people wear on the outside but what they wear on the inside. I don't worship a Demiurge; I worship GOD.

Actually, God does indeed care what we "wear." That's why we are encouraged to "put on" Christ's righteousness.

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

What of the Ten Commandments did He quote? None of the ritual/holiness ones. Interesting, no?

Was the sabbath a ritual of men or for God?

And the only reason why He followed the ritual/holiness codes was because He was 1) A Jew 2) Messiah, and in order for Him to be Messiah was that He had to be 1) God 2) Human (!!!<---watch; important!) 3) follow the Torah perfectly. Why not be docetic or anything like that? Because no human ever could follow the Torah perfectly; it was impossible. Why? Legalism! So God did something amazing; He Incarnates as a God-Man and follows the Law perfectly: social, moral, and ritual/holiness.

A great example He was indeed in terms of following and understanding God.

Everyone did the ritual/holiness laws. Look in Isaiah; no question about it. God couldn't stand it however because, like Judaizers today, they were so hung up on right ritual and right holiness that they lacked charity and community. So God absolved them of it through His Christ, who as a human; the Second Adam (thus representing all humanity, as Adam is all humanity), fulfilled and followed it for all.

I believe God couldn't stand the "heart" in which these things were done, not the law itself.

And yet, look what Christ did quote of the Ten. Ahhhh, fulfilled, but antinomianism, Christ made clear, was no means absolved. He had to be the Living Torah, but He took place of the ritual because HE IS THE RITUAL.

What "rituals" involved the 7th commandment? The 5th? 2nd? 10th? Which specific ceremonies were spelled out in the TC?

Claiming Christ means claiming He to be our Lamb; He's my Passover, who took away all sin.

So He died on the cross so you could do whatever you want? That's presumptive and wreckless Christianity.

St. Paul made it clear, inspired by God, that all that ritual/holiness stuff was so that the Jews would be a Light to the world.

Which they failed to do.

Yet the Law was also their greatest weakness out of getting hung up of legalism.

Who's fault was that? Theirs or the laws?

That is why I cannot make doctrinal such things. It is a rejection of Christ.

Well, I guess homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals and necromancy is A.O.K. then.

You forgot however that fish was not traditionally considered a meat in those days.

It wasn't?

Lev 11:9 These shall ye eat of all that [are] in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. Lev 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which [is] in the waters, they [shall be] an abomination unto you:

Your "I'll tell you what" is not much different than Hovind's $250,000 deal for a person to prove evolution.

If you cannot find anything to substantiate your claim about what you assert I said then I'll have to ask you again to retract your statement. 2nd request.

Here you have it all. Whoever you are reading this, SDA official theology says you aren't Christian.

Are you saying someone that calls them self a Christian doesn't have to listen to God, a.k.a. Jesus Christ? You must mistakenly think your body belongs to you.

1Cr 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
How does one glorify their body when they refuse to hear the words of God?

 

[MamaZ]

Jesus died on the cross and called out it is Finished.. Done.. Complete. Now we find our life in Him. Now those to whom are in Christ are dead to the Law.. All of the law. We are now His not by the law and the obedience of the law but by being born of His Spirit. Being lead by His Spirit. Be washed in the water of the word and coming to know the truth so we can all be set free.. Law keepers keep the yolk of bondage which brings curses and death.. Those to who belong to Christ has been set free from sin and death. For Christ has paid the price and given us a new heart.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Jesus died on the cross and called out it is Finished.. Done.. Complete. Now we find our life in Him. Now those to whom are in Christ are dead to the Law.. All of the law. We are now His not by the law and the obedience of the law but by being born of His Spirit. Being lead by His Spirit. Be washed in the water of the word and coming to know the truth so we can all be set free.. Law keepers keep the yolk of bondage which brings curses and death.. Those to who belong to Christ has been set free from sin and death. For Christ has paid the price and given us a new heart.

When Jesus said it was finished he was referring to the plan of salvation and the provision he made for salvation. He was not saying that the law was finished. You use some paraphrased texts from Romans 7 in your post and in my opinion, it seems like you dont understand them entirely. What in your mind is the law of Sin and Death?

 

[MamaZ]

When Jesus said it was finished he was referring to the plan of salvation and the provision he made for salvation. He was not saying that the law was finished. You use some paraphrased texts from Romans 7 in your post and in my opinion, it seems like you dont understand them entirely. What in your mind is the law of Sin and Death?

Where was He referring to the plan of salvation?

 

[MamaZ]

There is only one who saves.. Christ is the savior of the world.