Did the tower of babal really happen?

[AmericanChristian91]

What scientists note with the theory of Pangea makes sense if considering what was noted with Peleg in scripture - and connecting it all with Babel, as it may've been the case that God scattered all people across the world when the continents were one......choosing to later seperate those continents so that people would sovereignly be disconnected from one another.

However Pangea came into being and broke apart a LONG TIME before Man even existed, so...........

 

[Gxg (G²)]

However Pangea came into being and broke apart a LONG TIME before Man even existed, so...........

There are a lot of debates as to when Pangea came into being - and IMHO (especially if considering it from the perspective of the Earth not necessarily being extensively old and the basis behind that view), a lot of it does make sense.

It's interesting enough to consider how Jerusalem would be in the center of all the continents if they came together..... when Pangea did exist

For more, one can investigate The Catastrophic Destruction and Restoration of Pangea
__________________

I believe the world was mapped out before the flood, because they explored the whole world. And to give you an idea of how far they travelled..

Genesis 10:5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
​

On traveling the world, some of the theory would make more sense if seeing it within the context of what happened at Babel in Genesis 11

At the Tower of Babel, a city that was the antithesis of what God intended when He created the world, the Lord came down and disrupting a civilization in which there was originally one language for the entire world. The opening description in Genesis 11:1 with the whole world having one language indicates that the present episode was not placed chronologically after the events narrated in Genesis 10, which specifically mentions nations and languages (Genesis 10:20, Genesis 10:31-32, etc). .....and the episode with Babel may have occurred during the broad period covered in Genesis 10, especially if linked to the naming of Peleg in Genesis 10:25.

Genesis 1:9 records, “And God said, ‘Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.’ And it was so.” Presumably, if all the water was “gathered to one place,” the dry ground would also be all “in one place.” As Genesis 10:25 mentions, “…one was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided…”, its understandable as to why some point to Genesis 10:25 as evidence that the earth was divided after the Flood of Noah.

Of course, there are others who view Genesis 10:25 as referring to the “division” that occurred at the Tower of Babel rather than the division of the continents via “continental drift.” Some also dispute the post-Noahic Pangea separation due to the fact that, at the current rates of drift, the continents could not possibly have drifted so far apart in the time that has transpired since the Noahic Flood.

However, it cannot be proven that the continents have always drifted at the same rate. Furthermore, God is capable of expediting the continental-drift process to accomplish His goal of separating humanity (Genesis 11:8)....for God is able to do anything and has intervened in the natural world in wild ways MULTIPLE times before. The post-Noahic Pangea concept does possibly explain how the animals and humanity were able to migrate to the different continents. For how did the kangaroos get to Australia after the Flood if the continents were already separated?

Another explanation offered by Christian scientists that does not require a post-Noahic Pangea is that intercontinental migration most likely began while sea levels were still low during and immediately following the post-Flood Ice Age when much of the water was still trapped in ice at the poles. In this view, lower sea levels would have left the continental shelves exposed, connecting all of the major land masses through land bridges. As it stands, there are (or at least were) shallow underwater land bridges connecting all of the major continents. North America, Southeast Asia, and Australia are all attached to continental Asia...whereas Britain is attached to continental Europe. In some places, these intercontinental bridges are only a few hundred feet below our current sea level. Essentially, the theory can be summarized as follows:

(1) After the Flood, an Ice Age occurred.

(2) The vast amount of water that was frozen resulted in the oceans being much lower than they are today.

(3) The low level of the oceans resulted in land bridges connecting the various continents.

(4) Human beings and animals migrated to the different continents over these land bridges.

(5) The Ice Age ended, the ice melted and the ocean levels rose, resulting in the land bridges being submerged.
​

Thus, while Pangea is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, the Bible does present the possibility of a Pangea. One excellent study resource I'd recommend would be Continental Drift, Plate Tectonics, and the Bible.

As said best elsewhere (for brief excerpt):

“Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.” (Genesis 1:9-10)

Does this actually mean one super continent? The late Dr. Henry Morris, who is considered the father of the modern day creation movement and is both a trained hydrologist and a Bible scholar, has a different view. He states, “Although in one ‘place’ the waters assembled in numerous distinct basins, all were connected by channels.” Morris believed that the dry ground appeared with a great deal of continental movement, forcing the water into large basins so that there would be land masses separated from the water. He theorized that this required a great deal of energy that could only be energized by God Himself, when He said “Let the dry ground appear.” Morris emphasized that the oceans and land masses that we observe today do not look now how they did on the third day of creation. Most creation scientists believe the worldwide flood caused tremendous tectonic forces that changed the shape of the continents and the sea basins into what we observe today.​

 

[Fascinated With God]

You folks seem to think the Earth's crust could shift a thousand miles or more in a short period of time, but you don't realize how thin and fragile
the crust is compared to the size of the planet. It would peal off and crumply up leaving nothing but a thousand miles of exposed magma if the
crust were to move that quickly.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

You folks seem to think the Earth's crust could shift a thousand miles or more in a short period of time, but you don't realize how thin and fragile
the crust is compared to the size of the planet. It would peal off and crumply up leaving nothing but a thousand miles of exposed magma if the
crust were to move that quickly.

I would say that you are correct.


But I do like the map g put up about Shem, Japheth, and Ham.


There is no doubt that these 3 names represented the entire world.


I never saw a map include the united states with Ham, Japheth, and Shem, But those 3 names do in fact represent the world.


I know the continents could not have moved that fast{although the bible appears to say they did}.

But those 3 names represent a whole, just as Cain, Abel, and Seth represented a whole.

Just as The two kingdoms and Jerusalem represent a whole.

Ham, Japheth, and Shem stand to represent one man in body, soul, and spirit.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

You folks seem to think the Earth's crust could shift a thousand miles or more in a short period of time, but you don't realize how thin and fragile
the crust is compared to the size of the planet. It would peal off and crumply up leaving nothing but a thousand miles of exposed magma if the
crust were to move that quickly.

It really comes down to the reality of what one truly believes is possible with the Lord and his transcending natural dynamics when He so desires - as there's nothing saying it is impossible for the Lord to cause rapid shifting to occur in an instance and intervene to accomplish something while allowing it to go back to normal.

How much ability does God have to do things that seem impossible? All ability....and as the Lord already caused the Sun itself to stand still (Joshua 9) by impacting rotation itself - it'd not be impossible for change to also happen with shifting.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

It really comes down to the reality of what one truly believes is possible with the Lord and his transcending natural dynamics when He so desires - as there's nothing saying it is impossible for the Lord to cause rapid shifting to occur in an instance and intervene to accomplish something while allowing it to go back to normal.

How much ability does God have to do things that seem impossible? All ability....and as the Lord already caused the Sun itself to stand still (Joshua 9) by impacting rotation itself - it'd not be impossible for change to also happen with shifting.

Couldn't it be symbolic of a long period of time G?

I mean, I know what your saying, God can do anything, But shifting continents that fast makes us look like we are crazy ;].

I just don't think God would do things like that, that God set nature up to work just as it has.

Like that Joshua holding the Sun, I think it was something already set in nature to happen.

I don't know though.

I just don't think God would make us look that crazy, like something that big could happen in such a small time.

It's like talking about bones of Dinos, or things that happened millions of years ago.

Like the light of a star that is a trillion miles away, it moves at the speed of light, we see the light and are looking back in to time.

 

[AmericanChristian91]

I know God had done miracles, but I also believe that many times God keeps to many of the natural laws he put into place and does not change them through some supernatural act (one of them being that the continents do move, but extremely slow, and evidence has shown that there was not a time in earth's history in which the continents moved at some super fast rate).

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I know God had done miracles, but I also believe that many times God keeps to many of the natural laws he put into place and does not change them through some supernatural act (one of them being that the continents do move, but extremely slow, and evidence has shown that there was not a time in earth's history in which the continents moved at some super fast rate).

That's the logical outcome.

I believe what was written in Genesis, is symbolic.


I believe God knew exactly how he created the universe and the Earth, and he wrote it down.

When I see Adam being lain down in a sleep of death and pierced, I think of a huge moon striking the Earth, and then becoming one with the Earth like the Earth and moon.

Those few days of creation show a vast amount of time in my opinion.

What happened to Adam before Eve came along could not be a day.

Adam tilled and worked in the garden so long that God looked down on him and said he is alone.

Adam supposedly named all the animals and this couldn't be done in 100 years.

It looks like a lot of time transpired between Adam and Eve.

 

[Lulav]

I know God had done miracles, but I also believe that many times God keeps to many of the natural laws he put into place and does not change them through some supernatural act (one of them being that the continents do move, but extremely slow, and evidence has shown that there was not a time in earth's history in which the continents moved at some super fast rate).

Hello I am glad to see you have been able to return to the thread. I am guessing you missed my post. Here it is again.

When looking at the dates for the flood, it is estimated that only 100 years passed when the confusion of tongues happened.

Now we must remember that the earth (the land) was still in one whole piece at the time. I believe that G-d further divided the people to keep them from becoming one and rebelling against him by not only separating them by language, but also by space. Therefore we see that in the days of Peleg the earth separated. This is when the continents were 'formed'.

Thus those who moved 'south' would be in Africa and civilization rose up there.

Now by some figures the dispersion of languages happened in 2247 bce and it just so happened that Peleg was born the same year. We are told he lived to be 239 years old so the break up of the continents happened between 2247-2008bce.

The ancient civilizations that we know of all seem to appear on the scene around the same time in various parts of the world but all centralized
around Iraq/cradle of civilization.

As far as being able to tell today things that we read about in the beginnings of Genesis, it is hard for many reasons that must be taken into consideration.

The tower of Babel is historic and tells us briefly of the first rebellion of mankind as a whole against G-d. This is said to happen once again in the
future and things are almost all in place for them to happen right now.

In Europe, now called the European UNION, the EU building was purposely designed to not only emulate the tower of Babel but has graphics just
in case anyone missed the point. There is even a statue of a woman riding on a beast, prominently displayed.

Now taking into account that

1. The tower was built within only 100 years of the flood(2348bce) . (those on the ark still living at this time as well)
2. The dispersion by languages 2247 bce
3. Peleg was born in 2217bce
4. Peleg lived 239 years died in 2008 bce

Now reading the little blurp about this in the generations:

And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided ; and his brother's name was Joktan.

Now since we have recorded when he was born and when he died in the bible it is easy to calculate when these things happened.

'In his days' does not mean instantaneous. I could have happened over the 239 years of his life. We must take into consideration what exactly happened during the flood and what meaning this had on what happened afterwards.

There are pretty specific things that happened, I won't go into all of it, but a rereading of the chapters describing in detail what happened should make you wonder why there is so much written on 100 years in the early history in juxtaposition to what lead up to it over 2,000 years worth and after wards.

The earth was much different before the flood than it is today. Remember it was created perfectly or 'tov' as G-d proclaimed after each day.

We are told

He separated the land from the waters.

And God said , Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear

If the waters on the earth are in one place then the dry land can be presumed to also be in one place. Today our waters are divided and are not in one place.

Now during the flood (which lasted over a year) the 'waters of the deep were broken up'. These were the waters that watered everything from beneath. Things were grown hydroponically so to speak and there was no rain until the flood as well.

Now when the waters of the deep broke up, they were probably like super geysers. This action caused a weakening and cracks in the land mass. Also all that water now sitting on top of the land would surely saturate it.

So it isn't that hard to surmise that within 100 years of the flood that now the earth being corrupted by the 'violence' antediluvial, and the violence during the flood that the cracks made by the waters of the deep shooting forth would now start to go all the way down and cause a separation.

This happened over Peleg's lifetime but comparatively to the others born after the flood his lifespan was rather short, his father for example outlived him by 196 years.

But he was born to show this time period. And in case you didn't realize that was the reason for his life span, his one son (Reu) in the line of Messiah lived the same exact amount of years, 239!

The meaning of the name Peleg is division, taken from the root word meaning a 'channel' or canal, which is interesting considering what happened during his lifetime.

Now I don't believe that the land separated into what we have today, but as his name connotes, the land was divided by waters. They could have been the size of creeks at first, then gotten larger and larger as the land mass moved away and started forming the continents.

The thing that started this was the rebellion of Nimrod, he wanted to be worshiped as god and we get all our 'religious' beginning from him, just name changes along the way to keep us confused. But this thing he did was so egregious to the L-RD G-D, as it was only one step up from what happened before the flood and all this to prevent the Messiah from coming (Genesis 3:15), that the L_RD had to separate the peoples to keep it from happening again.

Thus separate them by language and then separate them by space.

They were all given a commandment when debarking the ark which they didn't follow, that was to populate the earth, not to stay in one area.

So you see it wasn't 'instantaneous; What happened was a series of things which lead to what we see now. And this is why we have these memories passed down of a flooding and of the earth once being one land mass surrounded by water.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by AmericanSoldier91

I know God had done miracles, but I also believe that many times God keeps to many of the natural laws he put into place and does not change them through some supernatural act (one of them being that the continents do move, but extremely slow, and evidence has shown that there was not a time in earth's history in which the continents moved at some super fast rate).
​

That's the logical outcome.

I believe what was written in Genesis, is symbolic.

.

What about the book of Revelation?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7588850-6/#post58437533
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That’s, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!



.

 

[twob4me]

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