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Did Satan Have Free Will In Heaven?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by toolite, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. toolite

    toolite New Member

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    I am asking this question because if satan was in heaven how could he be envious and demonstrate jealousy while in Heaven?

    So I pose the question did satan have free will in heaven?

    All The Glory Belongs To God Forever!
     
  2. 1watchman

    1watchman Overseer

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    Of all the angels, Lucifer (enlightened one) was given special gifts and characteristics to see how he would handle it. None other was given such liberty, except man later. He decided to be as God and began to gather angels to follow him (that is when God put a stop to it and made "elect angels", who were sanctified, I believe). Lucifer was cast out and then became representative of all influence outside of God --darkness, evil, chaos, etc. He became an agent to test man, I believe, and was called Satan, an adversary.

    We need to see that God, who knows the end from the beginning, set forth Satan to test man, and then began what we know as the seven dispensations (one can study this in the Word). Satan will eventually be cast away to condemnation after serving God's purposes, and the Lord will reign supreme for evermore. This is just a bit of overview.

    - 1 Watchman
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
  3. BiblebelievingChristian

    BiblebelievingChristian New Member

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    Yes.
     
  4. miamited

    miamited Ted

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    Hi toolite,

    I'm curious. You seem to present this argument that you don't understand that there can be jealousy and envy in heaven. Where do you get that understanding?

    God bless.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  5. StevenL

    StevenL Veteran

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    Most of the theories about the Adversary have arisen from speculation and old, fairy-tailish literature. So the answer is...... nobody here or anywhere else knows the answer. I believe.... that according to scriptures, the Adversary has always done just what he was created to do by the Creator. But, I could be wrong. :)
     
  6. BiblebelievingChristian

    BiblebelievingChristian New Member

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    You are incorrect. According to Genesis, God created everything good. God did not create evil. To say that any evil comes from God is to deny His perfect Holiness. To understand this better we have to first understand that evil is not a creation, it is the absence of a good. God created all things good. But God gave us and the angels freewill to choose to do what is right or not to choose to do what is right. Since all things that are good come from God, any place that is devoid of God is going to also be devoid of anything good. And that kind of place is what we call Hell.

    To understand why Satan is forever evil we have to understand how angels are different than us. Unlike us humans who have a physical brain which has it's limits and often can give us clouded judgment resulting in a change of mind, angels don't have a physical body and therefore have pure thought and perfect understanding. So when angels were given a choice to go with God's plan for the Incarnation or to reject it, they understood perfectly the choice they were making. That's why when satan made his decision not to follow God's plan it was a final decision that won't ever change. In other words, Satan freely chose to reject God forever.
     
  7. StevenL

    StevenL Veteran

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    I see you fully believe your own version of the suppositions so I'll leave it at that. :)

    But I believe you are incorrect.
     
  8. BiblebelievingChristian

    BiblebelievingChristian New Member

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    I don't believe that God is evil. So I don't know why you would disagree with that.
     
  9. served

    served Newbie

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    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Hope this helps
     
  10. Nurbz

    Nurbz Regular Member

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    On a related note; I thought God made humans because the angels had less free will and he was "bored" with them. Why would satan be given special privilages?

    Now this explination I don't understand, why would God consciously create evil, and all the horrible things that stem from it for the purpose of merely "testing" humanity. This makes it sound like a terrible game that's being played by forces we can't see, and anyone that fails these "tests" burn forever. It seems harsh over a game.
     
  11. Kutte

    Kutte Regular Member

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    served,

    Your quotation of ISA 75:7 is answering any and all questions posed so far.
    I think we need to use the word "bad" instead of "evil". Why would God say that He makes both, good and bad? Because without having the ability to compare goodness with badness, there would be no awareness of the good.

    BTW, too much goodness or too much badness is evil.

    God bless, Kutte
     
  12. served

    served Newbie

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    I don't think its a game, I do not believe the end result is people "burning forever". Without evil how would we know good? Without darkness how would we know light? Just like you teach your kids to learn with discipline, deal with mistakes, wrong doings, etc all for the purpose of becoming an adult. God teaches us the same way to grow spiritually into adulthood. We may call it harsh but we are just children spiritually, like our kids call their parents harsh - they are just children as well. Evil is necessary. This life we are in is just a small pinch of whats to come.
     
  13. Kutte

    Kutte Regular Member

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    served,
    Regarding your post #12:

    Excellent contribution.

    Kutte
     
  14. BiblebelievingChristian

    BiblebelievingChristian New Member

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    Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense. It's as absurd as saying that a white man is so white that he is actually a black man. Or like saying that too much light in a room makes the room dark. It's the fallacy of contradiction. This kind of confusion is what happens when people mix the teachings of the world with their faith.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  15. served

    served Newbie

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    Not to add fuel to your fire but to say "This kind of confusion is what happens when people mix the teachings of the world with their faith." As of your previous post you say "Saten Freely chose to reject God forever" and "God did not create evil." are these not teachings of the world? Or are they biblical? If biblical where?
     
  16. BiblebelievingChristian

    BiblebelievingChristian New Member

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    When I say teachings of the world I mean New Age Relativism type teaching about good and evil which is diametrically opposed to traditional Christian beliefs. None of what I said was in accord with New Age Relativism.
     
  17. jdale72

    jdale72 Junior Member

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    In the first chapter of Col. it testifies that all things were created by Him, for Him, thru Him, and is held together in Him. I'm not going to even act like I understand why and what God purposes, but I do know that God makes no mistakes( the devil) and freewill can only have the freedom afforded it within what has been created. There is nothing were God isn't.
     
  18. served

    served Newbie

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    Right on Jdale72. So this brings up another question...do we really truly have free will if His Will Be Done? I mean it may seem as freewill but if everything falls into place because of his will then is it really free? I think not but I would like to hear other thoughts on this with scripture as I have been back and forth on this myself.
     
  19. Kutte

    Kutte Regular Member

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    BiblebelievingChristian,

    Regarding your comment:
    Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense. It's as absurd as saying that a white man is so white that he is actually a black man. Or like saying that too much light in a room makes the room dark. It's the fallacy of contradiction. This kind of confusion is what happens when people mix the teachings of the world with their faith.


    Response
    Let me clarify:
    Evil is a quality which leads to one's destruction. Too much badness, for instance, such as becoming a victim in an airplane crash or being shot during a robery.

    Likewise, too much goodness can lead to one's destruction, for instance, while living in an environment lacking challenges, problems, being provided with everything for free, where there is no heat or cold, every wish being granted instantly.
    Incentives for creativity are missing since they do require certain problems or challenges to overcome. Needless to say, that overcoming a challenge may result in sweat and pain.
    Ergo, an existence void of any 'badness' whatsoever will lead to eternal boredom and death.

    The answer to the above is balance.

    Kutte
     
  20. plmarquette

    plmarquette Veteran

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    are there not evil men in the church....pharisees, sadducees, hypocrites...
    are there not wolves in sheeps clothes....
    are there not people who subvert and abuse....

    the same as when Jesus was here....