Did Judas go to heaven???

[anthony55]

Well, you can do that, but I take the Bible rather seriously, myself.

You take your opinion seriously..

 

[Christos Anesti]

But still when i actually put myself in the shoes of one who is in hell! It scares the "living hell" right out of me; and i no longer wish it upon no one, even as someone such as Hitler!!

Amen. Thats why we must pray for everyone and shed tears for our fellow man.

I love this story about St Silouan the Athonite:

A hermit declared with evident satisfaction that "God will punish all atheists. They will burn in everlasting fire."

Obviously upset, the Staretz [Silouan] said: “Tell me, supposing you went to paradise, and there you looked down and saw someone burning in hell fire, would you feel happy?”

“It can’t be helped. It would be their own fault,” said the hermit.

The Staretz [Silouan] answered him in a sorrowful countenance: “Love could not bear that,” he said. “We must pray for all.”

 

[anthony55]

christos:

Amen.

Thats why we must pray for everyone and shed tears for our fellow man.

So you pray for people in hell right now ?

 

[heymikey80]

But still when i actually put myself in the shoes of one who is in hell! It scares the "living hell" right out of me; and i no longer wish it upon no one, even as someone such as Hitler!!

I think it's a primary reason for evangelism, and why we seek to be credible before we share the Gospel with people. "The love of Christ compels us" from 2 Cor 5, and 1 Cor 9:12ff

Paul's motivation -- wow. Just impressive.

 

[Christos Anesti]

So you pray for people in hell right now ?

If there were people in hell right now I would. No one is currently in hell [gehenna] though. There may be people experiencing a "foretaste" of hell but the resurrection of the body and the final judgement haven't happen yet.

 

[heymikey80]

If there were people in hell right now I would. No one is currently in hell [gehenna] though. There may be people experiencing a "foretaste" of hell but the resurrection of the body and the final judgement haven't happen yet.

Factual inquiry -- is the Rich Man & Lazarus considered a foretaste reference?

 

[Christos Anesti]

Factual inquiry -- is the Rich Man & Lazarus considered a foretaste reference?

Yes, I tend to think that the rich man was in hades not gehenna. He suffered because of the state of his soul. He took all his evil with him to the next life and it torments him. No one has been cast into the lake of fire yet.

 

[laconicstudent]

You take your opinion seriously..

Doesn't everyone? And when my opinion appears to be rather clearly supported by Scripture....

 

[laconicstudent]

If there were people in hell right now I would. No one is currently in hell [gehenna] though. There may be people experiencing a "foretaste" of hell but the resurrection of the body and the final judgement haven't happen yet.

 

[anthony55]

cristos:

No one is currently in hell [gehenna] though

Do you have a scripture that states that or is this another one of your opinions.

 

[anthony55]

lacon:

Doesn't everyone?

Yes, But I am glad you understand that its just your opinion.

 

[hlaltimus]

Judas not only went to hell, but he is in an unusually severe portion of it.

It the scriptures say that he "went to his place" in (Acts 1:25b), and also defined him as "the son of perdition" as they do in John 17:12, then what more proper or fitting place could the son of perdition have gone to, but to be with his father in perdition, and whom could that possibly be? Doesn't a father naturally take interest in his son, which son bears the nature and preferences of the father? Of course they do, and that is why Judas was both a "thief" and a murderer as well, by virtue of his being accessory to the murder of the Christ. So correspondingly, the first thing that we see Satan doing in Genesis is to steal away the blessedness of both the man and the woman, while also killing them spiritually speaking, for, "in the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die." Satan also personally entered into Judas Iscariot the night of the betrayal, giving Judas the solitary and unenvied distinction of literally being Satan possessed, something utterly impossible for a redeemed child of God.

It is clear enough to me that Judas is currently in the fiery hell that he so rightly deserves to be in, but that he is in an especially terrible portion of hell, the scriptures are not so manifestly clear. I personally believe that Judas is in an especially terrible portion of hell, for "according to their works will I judge them", and it only stands to reason that the more evil a person commits which is never atoned for, the more penalty that person will no doubt suffer proportionately. Jesus said, "These shall receive greater condemnation", and so it must be found in that awful and ghastly place of hell, where stubborn and impenitant sinners will find their eternal abode amidst the flames and worms of ceaseless, proportionate, and eternally renewable destruction.

Judas must have received an inconceivably terrible judgment in hell, for his crime of betrayal was inconceivably terrible, relative to the highly unique person who was the innocent victim of that crime. The greater the value of loss in any crime, the greater the sentence will be that is passed against a villian, regardless of his ability to make restitution or not. When Judas betrayed the Lord Jesus and so made his inevitable execution a matter of consequence, Judas couldn't have possibly committed a crime involving a greater loss of value. If you could fill this or any other universe up with riches and wealth beyond imagination, that still measurable value couldn't even come close to touching the absolute, inherent and infinitely immeasurable value of a Being who was properly human and properly divine. The crime of Judas Iscariot was a crime of truly immeasurable proportions that only God Himself could ever calculate, and that is why the sentence of punishment determined against him must also be one which would instantly strike terror into any sane, earthly mind. When you finally do arrive in glory and have rendered your grateful adoration to the wonderful Messiah who has kindly and graciously brought you there, then and only then will you receive strength to look down into the depths of perdition, and behold the terrible fate of Judas Iscariot.
"And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched..." Isaiah 66:24

However by so doing, you will also only then realize what Robert Murray McCheyne penned in his sobering but truthful hymn in 1837:

"When I hear the wicked call, On the rocks and hills to fall,
When I see them start and shrink, On the fiery deluge brink,
Then, Lord, shall I fully know, Not till then, how much I owe."

 

[laconicstudent]

lacon:



Yes, But I am glad you understand that its just your opinion.

Of course, same as your's, though the Church agrees with mine, which seems to lend it a tad more weight.

 

[Christos Anesti]

Do you have a scripture that states that or is this another one of your opinions.

I haven't noticed the final judgement having taken place yet so I think it's a pretty safe assumption. All that comes after the second coming of Christ. Are you a full preterist or something?

 

[laconicstudent]

Judas not only went to hell, but he is in an unusually severe portion of it.

It the scriptures say that he "went to his place" in (Acts 1:25b), and also defined him as "the son of perdition" as they do in John 17:12, then what more proper or fitting place could the son of perdition have gone to, but to be with his father in perdition, and whom could that possibly be? Doesn't a father naturally take interest in his son, which son bears the nature and preferences of the father? Of course they do, and that is why Judas was both a "thief" and a murderer as well, by virtue of his being accessory to the murder of the Christ. So correspondingly, the first thing that we see Satan doing in Genesis is to steal away the blessedness of both the man and the woman, while also killing them spiritually speaking, for, "in the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die." Satan also personally entered into Judas Iscariot the night of the betrayal, giving Judas the solitary and unenvied distinction of literally being Satan possessed, something utterly impossible for a redeemed child of God.

It is clear enough to me that Judas is currently in the fiery hell that he so rightly deserves to be in, but that he is in an especially terrible portion of hell, the scriptures are not so manifestly clear. I personally believe that Judas is in an especially terrible portion of hell, for "according to their works will I judge them", and it only stands to reason that the more evil a person commits which is never atoned for, the more penalty that person will no doubt suffer proportionately. Jesus said, "These shall receive greater condemnation", and so it must be found in that awful and ghastly place of hell, where stubborn and impenitant sinners will find their eternal abode amidst the flames and worms of ceaseless, proportionate, and eternally renewable destruction.

Judas must have received an inconceivably terrible judgment in hell, for his crime of betrayal was inconceivably terrible, relative to the highly unique person who was the innocent victim of that crime. The greater the value of loss in any crime, the greater the sentence will be that is passed against a villian, regardless of his ability to make restitution or not. When Judas betrayed the Lord Jesus and so made his inevitable execution a matter of consequence, Judas couldn't have possibly committed a crime involving a greater loss of value. If you could fill this or any other universe up with riches and wealth beyond imagination, that still measurable value couldn't even come close to touching the absolute, inherent and infinitely immeasurable value of a Being who was properly human and properly divine. The crime of Judas Iscariot was a crime of truly immeasurable proportions that only God Himself could ever calculate, and that is why the sentence of punishment determined against him must also be one which would instantly strike terror into any sane, earthly mind. When you finally do arrive in glory and have rendered your grateful adoration to the wonderful Messiah who has kindly and graciously brought you there, then and only then will you receive strength to look down into the depths of perdition, and behold the terrible fate of Judas Iscariot.
"And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched..." Isaiah 66:24

However by so doing, you will also only then realize what Robert Murray McCheyne penned in his sobering but truthful hymn in 1837:

"When I hear the wicked call, On the rocks and hills to fall,
When I see them start and shrink, On the fiery deluge brink,
Then, Lord, shall I fully know, Not till then, how much I owe."

Interesting theory. Rather sad thought though. It would be great to get to heaven to find that Judas had repented in the end and was saved. Be a powerful story of God's saving love if ever there was one.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Interesting theory. Rather sad thought though. It would be great to get to heaven to find that Judas had repented in the end and was saved. Be a powerful story of God's saving love if ever there was one.

Sentimental nonsense, refuted by Jesus who prayed and acknowledged to the Father that all those whom the Father gave Him were preserved, except the son of perdition (Judas). Judas did not repent. He killed himself out of guilt and despair but he never turned to the Lord for forgiveness. Therefore, he is awaiting judgment and condemnation. I think that Jesus also said that it would be better for him if he had never been born. That does not sound like a person going to heaven to me.

 

[DeaconDean]

Sentimental nonsense, refuted by Jesus who prayed and acknowledged to the Father that all those whom the Father gave Him were preserved, except the son of perdition (Judas). Judas did not repent. He killed himself out of guilt and despair but he never turned to the Lord for forgiveness. Therefore, he is awaiting judgment and condemnation. I think that Jesus also said that it would be better for him if he had never been born. That does not sound like a person going to heaven to me.

Its a shame too that people would ignore what Jesus said about the "betrayer" and say he repented.

"The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born." -Mt. 26:24 (KJV)

John Gill comments:

it had been good for that man if he had not been born. This is a Rabbinical phrase, frequently, used in one form or another; sometimes thus; as it is said (f) of such that speak false and lying words, and regard not the glory of their Creator, , it would have been better for them they had never come into the world; and so of any other, notorious sinner, it is at other times said (g), , or (h), , "it would have been better for him if he had not been created"; signifying, that it is better to have no being at all, than to be punished with everlasting destruction; and which was the dreadful case of Judas, who fell by his transgression, and went to his own place.
(f) Zohar in Gen. fol. 41. 1. Vid. Misn. Chagiga, c. 2. sect. 1. T. Bab Chagiga, fol. 16. 1.((g) Zohar in Gen. fol, 46. 4. & in Exod. fol. 1. 4. & 36. 3. & 62. 3. & 66. 3. & 105. 4. & 106. 1.((h) T. Hieros. Sabbat, fol. 3. 2. T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 17. 1. & Erubin, fol. 13. 2. Midrash Kobelet, fol. 79. 1.

John Gill, Commentary on the Entire Bible, Matthew 26:24

God Bless

Till all ar one.

 

[laconicstudent]

I guess I simply prefer to hope that you are interpreting that verse incorrectly than definitively declare someone to be lost to Hell.


Don't you at least have some, as you call it, "sentimental nonsense" desire to be wrong about Judas?

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

Jesus referred to Judas as "the devil" in John 6:70:
70 Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

And who was it that prompted Judas to betray Jesus? Satan. John 13:2:
2 The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus.

...and it was Satan himself who entered Judas. John 13:27:
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. "What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him,

After Judas went to betray Jesus, Jesus prayed a prayer to the Father. The context shows that Jesus' reference to the "one doomed to destruction" is Judas. John 17:12:

12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.


LDG

 

[cygnusx1]

Judas went to his appointed , determined , predestined , ordained , decreed place ; hell .

why ?

to serve God's purposes and to expose sin.