did Jesus come to save all of humanity or did He just come for the jews ?

[Open Heart]

Faith and alone are two separate words,not a compound word.

No need to tell ME that. Tell those who are protestant.

 

[Open Heart]

No, I know what the dream was about. Right after that Peter started eating with the gentiles and following no more food laws like Paul.

I eat with Gentiles, and it's pretty easy to avoid unclean animals. IOW I obey Peter's dream and manage to stay kosher too.

 

[Open Heart]

So what are your verses that say we are justified by our works?

James 2:24 is very explicit: "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

So let me ask you, what about faith without works? Isn't faith alone dead?

 

[civilwarbuff]

elsewhere it says we are justified by our works.

In Ephesians Paul is talking about justification of our faith before God which requires no works because He can see what is written on our hearts. James, OTOH, is speaking to men and that Believers justify their faith before men through their works since men cannot see into the heart. apples and oranges....

 

[Open Heart]

In Ephesians Paul is talking about justification of our faith before God which requires no works because He can see what is written on our hearts. James, OTOH, is speaking to men and that Believers justify their faith before men through their works since men cannot see into the heart. apples and oranges....

Oh brother. Where in the world do you come up with the idea that James is talking about the justification of men? Why would he even care about that?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Oh brother. Where in the world do you come up with the idea that James is talking about the justification of men? Why would he even care about that?

reread the post.....before men.....not of.....huge difference in meaning....

 

[Open Heart]

reread the post.....before men.....not of.....huge difference in meaning....

I understood your meaning. Why in the world would James even care about such a thing?

 

[Winken]

Each born again Believer is given a ministry; each lets others know about their Savior, about salvation by Grace through Faith. Our Faith is lifeless when we do not do that. We are to share our Faith. Romans 10:14-15.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I said:

In Ephesians Paul is talking about justification of our faith before God which requires no works because He can see what is written on our hearts. James, OTOH, is speaking to men and that Believers justify their faith before men through their works since men cannot see into the heart. apples and oranges....

you replied:

Oh brother. Where in the world do you come up with the idea that James is talking about the justification of men? Why would he even care about that?

I replied:

reread the post.....before men.....not of.....huge difference in meaning....

you replied:

I understood your meaning. Why in the world would James even care about such a thing?

Jas 2:14 What good does it do, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith but does not prove it with actions? This kind of faith cannot save him, can it?
Jas 2:15 Suppose a brother or sister does not have any clothes or daily food
Jas 2:16 and one of you tells them, "Go in peace! Stay warm and eat heartily." If you do not provide for their bodily needs, what good does it do?
Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it does not prove itself with actions, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone may say, "You have faith, and I have actions." Show me your faith without any actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions.
James is telling them show your faith to men by your actions, since they cannot see your faith written on your heart....
If you disagree, please show the scripture that supports you....

 

[Open Heart]

Jas 2:14 What good does it do, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith but does not prove it with actions? This kind of faith cannot save him, can it?

How does "This kind of faith cannot save him" show that he is talking about justification before men? I'm sorry but your interpretation just falls short. Nice try.

 

[civilwarbuff]

How does "This kind of faith cannot save him" show that he is talking about justification before men? I'm sorry but your interpretation just falls short. Nice try.

I will write it off to the catholic in you....since you disagreed without any scriptural support on your end.....

 

[Open Heart]

I will write it off to the catholic in you....since you disagreed without any scriptural support on your end.....

Ehhhh, the part in quotes? That was scripture.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Ehhhh, the part in quotes? That was scripture.

Without the context.....nice try....and it was scripture....a fragment....

 

[Open Heart]

Without the context.....nice try....and it was scripture....a fragment....

Oh it had context all right. I just don't give James the same interpretation as you do, and that verse is one of the reasons why. The other reason is... why the heck would james even care about what other men think about us?

 

[Hank77]

James 2:24 is very explicit: "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

So let me ask you, what about faith without works? Isn't faith alone dead?

This is how I understand this....
James is not talking about the Law of Moses specifically, we know this because Abraham did not have the Law of Moses and Rehab had no knowledge of it either. Neither of the things they did that showed they had working, living faith were in the Law of Moses.
James is not saying to these Jewish believer that they must do the works of the Law to be justified but that they must have faith that causes works of faith, whatever those works may be. That the works one does is by faith.
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
This is what Moses said, this is what Jesus said, this is what the apostles said.

while he himself should have been eating kosher.

Paul did not rebuke Peter when he was eating with the Gentiles. Only after when he saw,
Gal_2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

In other words, "You Peter, do not live in the manner the Jews do, so why are you compelling the Gentiles to live as the Jews do?"
So why did Peter do it, leave the Gentiles for the Jews?
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Not because he feared God because he wasn't living in the manner the Jews do.

Who was NOT walking according to the truth of the gospel?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Oh it had context all right. I just don't give James the same interpretation as you do, and that verse is one of the reasons why. The other reason is... why the heck would james even care about what other men think about us?

1Co 9:19 Although I am free from everyone's expectations, I have made myself a servant to all of them to win more people.
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew in order to win Jews. To those under the Law I became like a man under the Law, in order to win those under the Law (although I myself am not under the Law).
1Co 9:21 To those who do not have the Law, I became like a man who does not have the Law in order to win those who do not have the Law. However, I am not free from God's Law, but I'm subject to the Messiah's law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak in order to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some of them.
1Co 9:23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel in order to have a share in its blessings.

 

[Hank77]

Sounds quite odd for a Christian to quote the complete Jewish Bible...sorry I can not verify that nor give any credence to it nor do I wish to examine it for you to see how badly you understand it as I do not adhere to that faith...and James was there...what a different version than you gave...good night all.

Galatians 2:12 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
12 For prior to the arrival of certain people from [the community headed by] Ya‘akov, he had been eating with the Gentile believers; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, because he was afraid of the faction who favored circumcising Gentile believers.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2:12&version=CJB

 

[civilwarbuff]

Galatians 2:12 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
12 For prior to the arrival of certain people from [the community headed by] Ya‘akov, he had been eating with the Gentile believers; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, because he was afraid of the faction who favored circumcising Gentile believers.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2:12&version=CJB

Can you give me a link to CJB?

 

[Jaxxi]

I have recently come across another challenging question and im not sure how to respond to it as i am having trouble locating in the Old Testament that the Messiah would come to save all of humanity from their sins .

the actual question to me was as follows :

Jeremiah 31:31-34
The days are coming,’ declares the Lord,
‘when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,’
declares the Lord.
‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbour,
or say to one another, “Know the Lord,”
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,’
declares the Lord.
‘For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.’

As a Christian I'd read this passage before - but never in context. This passage describes, in detail, what the New Covenant is. It's a covenant between God and Israel/Judah. It is NOT a covenant between God and non-Jews. It's an unconditional covenant - it doesn't require obedience or belief or any action on behalf of the Jews to receive the knowledge of God and forgiveness from God. It is made clear this covenant wholly replaces the Mosaic covenant.

Also Jesus said In Matthew 15:22-26 that a Canaanite woman (a gentile) from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Jesus calls this woman a dog because she is not the right nationality and he only came for the jews and she was a gentile. Jesus identified as the Messiah to the Jews , not contradicting the Old Testament promise to the Jewish people . so when did Jesus become a Messiah that saved all humanity from their sins if Jesus came to save the Jewish people only what scripture in the Old Testament supports this savior of all humanity concept ?

Why do you Christians believe the New Covenant is one made between God and all people through Jesus Christ as the mediator and believe forgiveness has to be earned in some way (either through repentance, by faith, or by good works depending on the denomination)? And you guys believe in the authority of clergy to teach about God - but God says in this new covenant that no one will have to teach about him because he will personally tell all the Jews himself .

so any help and understanding regarding this question would be greatly appreciated thank you all

Jesus came to save all of humanity who believes in Him. The non- believers will not be saved. The Satanists will not be saved. The witchcraft Wiccans will not be saved.It's sad but it's true. The ones who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will be saved. Bow before no other.

 

[Hank77]

Can you give me a link to CJB?

The one I posted with the scripture, but there are others if you google Complete Jewish Bible online.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2:12&version=CJB