did Jesus come to save all of humanity or did He just come for the jews ?

[jenny1972]

I have recently come across another challenging question and im not sure how to respond to it as i am having trouble locating in the Old Testament that the Messiah would come to save all of humanity from their sins .

the actual question to me was as follows :

Jeremiah 31:31-34
The days are coming,’ declares the Lord,
‘when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,’
declares the Lord.
‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbour,
or say to one another, “Know the Lord,”
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,’
declares the Lord.
‘For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.’

As a Christian I'd read this passage before - but never in context. This passage describes, in detail, what the New Covenant is. It's a covenant between God and Israel/Judah. It is NOT a covenant between God and non-Jews. It's an unconditional covenant - it doesn't require obedience or belief or any action on behalf of the Jews to receive the knowledge of God and forgiveness from God. It is made clear this covenant wholly replaces the Mosaic covenant.

Also Jesus said In Matthew 15:22-26 that a Canaanite woman (a gentile) from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Jesus calls this woman a dog because she is not the right nationality and he only came for the jews and she was a gentile. Jesus identified as the Messiah to the Jews , not contradicting the Old Testament promise to the Jewish people . so when did Jesus become a Messiah that saved all humanity from their sins if Jesus came to save the Jewish people only what scripture in the Old Testament supports this savior of all humanity concept ?

Why do you Christians believe the New Covenant is one made between God and all people through Jesus Christ as the mediator and believe forgiveness has to be earned in some way (either through repentance, by faith, or by good works depending on the denomination)? And you guys believe in the authority of clergy to teach about God - but God says in this new covenant that no one will have to teach about him because he will personally tell all the Jews himself .

so any help and understanding regarding this question would be greatly appreciated thank you all

 

[ViaCrucis]

Several things:

1) According to mainstream Christian teaching the Church is Israel. St. Paul writes that Gentiles are grafted onto the Olive Tree of Israel, so that Jew and Gentile together, in Christ, are one whole people in the Messiah.

2) Jesus tests the faith of the Gentile woman and praises her for her faith. Jesus commands His apostles to be His witnesses beginning in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. That Gentiles are included here is thoroughly dealt with in the narrative of the Acts of the Apostles.

3) Christ turned to His apostles in John's Gospel and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit, whoever's sins you say are forgiven are forgiven" and to Peter says, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom, whatever you bound on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." From which comes the idea of the Office or Ministry of the Keys. And is why pastors have always pronounced forgiveness of sin as part of the Rite of Penitence. Because Christ specifically gave that authority to His apostles, and pastors stand in the seat and authority of the apostles.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[jenny1972]

thanks via

 

[dcalling]

Several things:

1) According to mainstream Christian teaching the Church is Israel. St. Paul writes that Gentiles are grafted onto the Olive Tree of Israel, so that Jew and Gentile together, in Christ, are one whole people in the Messiah.

2) Jesus tests the faith of the Gentile woman and praises her for her faith. Jesus commands His apostles to be His witnesses beginning in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. That Gentiles are included here is thoroughly dealt with in the narrative of the Acts of the Apostles.

3) Christ turned to His apostles in John's Gospel and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit, whoever's sins you say are forgiven are forgiven" and to Peter says, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom, whatever you bound on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." From which comes the idea of the Office or Ministry of the Keys. And is why pastors have always pronounced forgiveness of sin as part of the Rite of Penitence. Because Christ specifically gave that authority to His apostles, and pastors stand in the seat and authority of the apostles.

-CryptoLutheran

Very true, I will never be able to articulate this well.

 

[com7fy8]

"My cup runs over" (in Psalm 23:5)

The cup of what is for the Jews runs over to anyone who has faith and obeys God.

And you can read about Ruth. Ruth was a Gentile, but she was faithful to God; and she is in the family line of King David. Ruth a Gentile is a great-grandmother of King David. Read the book of Ruth.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Jesus says salvation is from the Jews (John 4:22). He hints at the salvation of the Gentiles: I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. (John 10:16) Paul in Romans 1:16 says salvation is first for the Jew and then for the gentile. As has been said the Gentiles were grafted in. I believe you also asked for O.T. citations prophesying this change. Gentiles were clearly entering in the O.T....aliens and foreign slaves were allowed to worship with the Jews if the requirements of the LAW for this were carried out.
There is prophecy of the Gentile's salvation cited in Acts...I know it cites Isaiah 49:6 and Amos 9:10-11 and probably others. So yes, it is a prophecy/prophecy-fulfilled situation just like most of God's salvation plan.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus came first for the Jew, than the Gentile.

He came for all but He had to fulfill the prophecy of Israel. Paul started the gentile churches.

God loves us all!

 

[Open Heart]

According to mainstream Christian teaching the Church is Israel.

Not according to Catholicism, which is the bulk of Christianity. In Catholicism, the Church is New Israel, and New Israel doesn't replace Israel any more than New York replaces York. Catholicism considers the Jews to still be a covenant people, for the gifts and callings are irrevocable.

 

[Open Heart]

He hints at the salvation of the Gentiles

While Jesus made it clear that He came personally for the Jews (meaning that in his lifetime he only preached to Jews and not to Gentiles) he instructed his disciples to go "unto all the world" after his ascension.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Not according to Catholicism, which is the bulk of Christianity. In Catholicism, the Church is New Israel, and New Israel doesn't replace Israel any more than New York replaces York. Catholicism considers the Jews to still be a covenant people, for the gifts and callings are irrevocable.

And the majority of protestants are not Catholic.

And the Catholic church considers priests a liason to Christ and the Pope to be speaking for Christ.

So, I'm not sure that what the Catholic church believes is relevant in the Exploring Christianity forum because there is much more to Christians than the Catholic church.

 

[ToBeLoved]

While Jesus made it clear that He came personally for the Jews (meaning that in his lifetime he only preached to Jews and not to Gentiles) he instructed his disciples to go "unto all the world" after his ascension.

I disagree. Jesus came to bring the New Covenant. That's what He died for and that is not to only the Jews as a matter of fact He knew that the Jewish people would not believe in Him or any of those He sent to them. Prophecy of the Jewish people came true.

 

[Open Heart]

And the majority of protestants are not Catholic.

Again, Catholicism is by far the bulk of Christianity. Protestants may be the majority of Christians in the US, but certainly not worldwide.

 

[Open Heart]

I disagree. Jesus came to bring the New Covenant. That's what He died for and that is not to only the Jews as a matter of fact He knew that the Jewish people would not believe in Him or any of those He sent to them. Prophecy of the Jewish people came true.

One of the Prophecies of the Jewish people is that "In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'" Zechariah 8:23 So we Jews still have an important role to play.

God not only "knew" that most Jews would not believe, God is the CAUSE of their unbelief. God has deliberately blinded them until the Gentiles come in. Thus the Jews have no responsibility in the matter, which is why all Israel shall be saved, why Jews are of the Elect and beloved still for the sake of the Patriarchs. (Romans 11)

 

[ToBeLoved]

Again, Catholicism is by far the bulk of Christianity. Protestants may be the majority of Christians in the US, but certainly not worldwide.

So?

To tell someone what Christians believe by taking the largest denomination believe is quite short sighted because Protestants believe so differently from Catholicism.

Why not say this is what Catholics believe? Now that would be factual, but saying Christians is not factual.

 

[ToBeLoved]

God not only "knew" that most Jews would not believe, God is the CAUSE of their unbelief. God has deliberately blinded them until the Gentiles come in. Thus the Jews have no responsibility in the matter, which is why all Israel shall be saved, why Jews are of the Elect and beloved still for the sake of the Patriarchs. (Romans 11)

I don't know about all that. That the Jews have no responsibility at all. As a matter of fact, they are the one's who broke the Old Covenant. The Jews still rejected the Son of God, but luckily for them, God REMEMBERS His promises to Abraham and the Prophets.

It is not Israel, it is God. God is COMING BACK for His chosen people.

Not that Israel deserves it. because I don't know that they do, but that is neither here nor there because God tells us that we cannot go against Israel. So we love you guys because God tells us to.

 

[Albion]

Again, Catholicism is by far the bulk of Christianity. Protestants may be the majority of Christians in the US, but certainly not worldwide.

Well, it's not "the bulk" and it's not "by far," either....but if you count hundreds of millions who never attend church but were baptized in a Roman Catholic church once upon a time, I suppose.

 

[zippy2]

Open Heart is right. The bulk of the Jews have been blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I wonder what exactly that means? Is it a number?

 

[Hank77]

As a Christian I'd read this passage before - but never in context. This passage describes, in detail, what the New Covenant is. It's a covenant between God and Israel/Judah. It is NOT a covenant between God and non-Jews. It's an unconditional covenant - it doesn't require obedience or belief or any action on behalf of the Jews to receive the knowledge of God and forgiveness from God. It is made clear this covenant wholly replaces the Mosaic covenant.

This is in part what I understand.
The new covenant was made with a Jew, one Jew, the One Seed, the Messiah, the Christ. It is the border of His garment that we cling to, believing Jews and Gentiles. Jew and Gentile in the Christ, the Jewish Messiah.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Open Heart is right. The bulk of the Jews have been blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I wonder what exactly that means? Is it a number?

I still don't think that God is all happy with the Jews though. For instance, during Jesus time He came down on the Pharisee's harder than anyone else and through the wrath of God they were scattered through every nation.

Now granted, God will come back for them, I just don't like the way it is presented by people who are sympathetic to Jews or Messianic's that Jews have been all that, because they have not.

 

[patrick jane]

Jesus' earthly ministry was for the Jews, the lost sheep of Israel; here are Jesus' own words: Matthew 15:24

After death, burial and resurrection the dispensation of grace was given to Paul in Acts 9, for Paul to go unto the gentiles; the whole world. Peter was sent to the circumcision and Paul to the gentiles.

Since DBR Christ died for all according to the riches of God's grace Ephesians 1:13