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Did God really walk with Adam & Eve in the Garden?

Discussion in 'Origins Theology' started by Scotishfury09, Feb 3, 2008.

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  1. Scotishfury09

    Scotishfury09 G.R.O.S.S. Dictator-For-Life

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    They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
    Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?"
    He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself."
    And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"
    Genesis 3:9-11

    Adam and Eve have just eaten the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. They hide from God because he is walking in the garden.

    But, was he really walking in the Garden of Eden?



    No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

    1 John 4:12


    No one has seen God at any time? How did Adam and Eve see God? It's fairly obvious to see that God walked in the Garden on a regular basis according to Genesis.

    (EDIT: I'm really anxious to see the Creationists twist and bend around their orthodox view of Genesis 3 to save their beliefs.)
     
  2. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    This has nothing to do with creationism.

    Adam is not included in the "no one".

    You need to learn more on how to read.

    If you have other intentions, good try, though. Try harder.
     
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  3. gluadys

    gluadys Legend

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    Why?
     
  4. Vance

    Vance Contributor

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    Exactly, Gluadys. Why would "no one" really mean "no one except Adam"?
     
  5. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Sanctimonious old crackpot

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    It says, "they heard the sound of God walking in the garden", and, "they hid themselves from the presence of the Lord. It doesn't say they viewed God with their eyes.

    However, God could have manifested himself as a human being, but this would not be the glorious spirit being that he actually is. No human can view the full reality of God and live to tell the tale (although Moses did see his backside). The glorified Christ can only be seen in vision or through spirit(ual) eyes. However as an incarnate human he certainly could be seen. I don't see a problem with God appearing to Adam and Eve in human form.

    owg
     
  6. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    When Adam saw God, he was not in this world.
     
  7. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    I like this one too. Thanks. (I think this one is better than mine)

    And, in fact, I am not sure if I can see God Himself in the Heaven. I will see Jesus, which could be the visible identity of God.
     
  8. gluadys

    gluadys Legend

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    I don't agree with this statement, but accepting it for the sake of argument, I still ask "Why is Adam not included in 'no one'?" The statement doesn't say "No one in this world..." It just says "No one.."
     
  9. Paul365

    Paul365 New Member

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    You have to exclude Adam and Abraham, otherwise the rest of the Bible would be inconsistent with Genesis. Abraham was also visited by God, so he had to be excluded too. And Moses and the whole people of Israel also saw him in different manifestations.

    Interestingly, in the later parts of the Bible God was indeed not seen anymore by anyone. And from a certain point on he was also not heard anymore, he stopped directly talking to humans. In the Hebrew Bible, the last human he directly talked to was Job. In the last books of the Hebrew Bible he also didn't interact anymore with human affairs, and the Hebrew book of Ester does not even mention God anymore.

    So it seems God was a lot more active in the early days. The "no one" probably means "no one from now on".
     
  10. Vance

    Vance Contributor

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    OK, so you are willing to ignore the "plain reading" of the text, and interpret it differently in order to make the text consistent with other parts of the Bible? Under that approach, the idea is that you start with the idea of absolute consistency within Scripture, then do whatever is necessary, even if it means ignoring, or twisting around the text to make it internally consistent.

    Fine, but if you are willing to do that, why do so many Creationists get amazed and indignant when so many other Christians do something similar (but actually more rationally consistent) when they start with the presumption that Scripture is not inconsistent with science and that, if there SEEMS to be a conflict, then it is either with our reading of Scripture or our reading of the scientific evidence, and then find out how they must work together?
     
  11. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    OK, You win on this one.
    You adapted fast. I wish you will remember this way of argument in other issues.
     
  12. Scotishfury09

    Scotishfury09 G.R.O.S.S. Dictator-For-Life

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    And what "way" would that be? Pointing out where your outrageous logic is always at fault?

    Yes, and later it says he made them clothes and clothed them. Did he make the clothes while they were still hidden, run away, then say, "Ok, I'm out of sight, you can put the clothes on."

    This begs the question of why wouldn't God appear to Moses in human form? And since when is seeing someone's backside not the same as seeing them at all? 1 John says, "no one has seen God", not "seen God's face".
     
  13. Tinker Grey

    Tinker Grey Wanderer

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    But you miss the point. The point is that you YECs don't use a "plain reading" of the text even though you insist you do. We TEs know and acknowledge that we don't. We are not claiming that we don't do this. We are just claiming that you don't do it any less than we do.

    To be charitable, there is a level of cognitive dissonance here.
     
  14. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Sanctimonious old crackpot

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    A study of all the scriptures relating to this subject clearly reveal what is meant. The discourse between God and Moses in Ex 33 shows that it is the glory of God that cannot viewed face to face. Also notice that the cloud and thus the pillar of fire as well are the presence of God and not the human manifestation or the glory:

    9And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses.


    10And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.

    11And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. (Clearly a human manifestation). And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

    12And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight.

    13Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.

    14And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

    15And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence.

    16For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth.

    17And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

    18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

    19And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

    20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. (clearly a reference to his glorified face.)

    21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

    22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

    23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


    So not even Moses saw the glorified face of God.


    In the next chapter, when Moses came down from the mountain his face "shone" so that it could not be viewed by the people and he wore a veil to cover it. Clearly this was, at least in part, a result of his brief exposure to God's glorified backside.

    owg
     
  15. Assyrian

    Assyrian Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)

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    Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face [pânîym the face]: for there shall no man see me, and live... 23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face [pânîym the face] shall not be seen.

    Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence [pânîym the face] of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
    (YLT) And they hear the sound of Jehovah God walking up and down in the garden at the breeze of the day, and the man and his wife hide themselves from the face of Jehovah God in the midst of the trees of the garden.
     
  16. juvenissun

    juvenissun Veteran

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    I do not speak for others. But for me, I will first search the literal meanings of interested verses. In most cases, I can satisfy myself to the literal explanation. I can not always be so sensitive in doing that. Take this thread as an example, I did not insist a literal interpretation at first, because I thought the conflict can be easily solved by reading them at different scopes, one in Eden and one not in Eden. There is no need to insist a literal reading or not.

    Later on, OldWiseGuy brought to my attention that Adam did not have to "see" God even in Eden, and Glaudys forced me to stick with the literal meaning of "no one", then I realized there is not a problem after all even I followed Glaudys' insistence.

    It is not a problem if I sticked to the literal interpretation to every verses of the Bible at all the time. The fact is, whenever I choose to do that, I find no problem with it.
     
  17. Scotishfury09

    Scotishfury09 G.R.O.S.S. Dictator-For-Life

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    Save me, Obi-Wan, save me!
     
  18. shernren

    shernren you are not reading this.

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    Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.
    This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking.

    (Ezekiel 1:28 NIV)

    (emphasis added)

    So many layers in between!
     
  19. fritz300

    fritz300 You shall know the truth

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    I imagine it was Yeshua walking around with Adam in the garden.
     
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  20. MarkEvan

    MarkEvan Senior Veteran

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    Finally................................Paul tells us that the rock that followed Israel in the wilderness was Jesus, ergo he existed before his time on earth..............both John the B and Jesus tell us that no one has seen God (take that to mean the Father)...............and there is your answer, any sighting of God in teh OT, including Adam's was of God the son....................the Father has always dealt with humanity through the Son.


    Mark
     
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