Did Cain find a wife in Nod?

[Calminian]

This was prompted by this response in a different thread.

When Cain killed Abel, he went to the land of Nod on the east of Eden. There he met his wife who descended from ......

But is this really true that Cain traveled a great distance and found his soul mate??

Just a couple things I noticed from the text of Genesis where this account is taken. Please note the following exhibits.

A) The passage never says Cain found a wife in Nod.
B) The passage never says Cain actually knew his wife in Nod.

Read for yourself.

Gen. 4:16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.​

(NKJV)

You'll notice there's nothing there about Cain finding a wife in Nod. In fact, there's nothing about him actually having relations with her in Nod. It merely says he knew his wife, and while context may suggest this took place in Nod, it's not definite. Take a look at how the NIV separates the paragraphs.

16 So Cain went out from the LORD’S presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Gen. 4:17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch.​

(NIV)

Now in addition to that, exhibit C) Seth is said to be Abel's replacement

Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, “For God has appointed another seed for me instead of Abel, whom Cain killed.” ​

and exhibit D) he was born when Adam was 130 years old.

Gen. 5:3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.​

That would seem to indicate that Cain and Abel must have been quite old at the time of Abel's death, assuming they were born early in Adam's life. If that's true, both men may have been well over a century old at the time of Abel's killing.

Thus, it would follow Cain was already likely Married with children as was Abel. For are we really to assume that both men lived the equivalent of 2 modern lifespans and didn't take wives?

Now the genealogy this is taken from records that Adam and Eve had other children, both sons and daughters. Jewish tradition says they had 56 children. Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't, but for certain God commanded them to multiply. I would say 3 children in 130 years is quite unlikely.

Now all of this suggest to me that Cain was already married with children at the time he killed Abel, and that when he was banished he took his wife with him. I would also surmise that at that time, thousands of people were already on the earth from all the children Adam and Eve had. In fact, there were likely multiple generations from each of Adam's many sons. This would explain Cain's fear of retribution.

Now this is speculation, but it's based on the text. But then I came across what Josephus had to say on the matter. He was a jewish historian with much better historical sources than we have today. He was not inspired, but his historical accounts have proved very accurate and helpful.

According to his sources, after Cain and slew Abel, the following took place. (this blew me away)

God therefore did not inflict the punishment [of death] upon him, on account of his offering sacrifice, and thereby making supplication to him not to be extreme in his wrath to him; but he made him accursed, and threatened his posterity in the seventh generation. He also cast him, together with his wife, out of that land. And when he was afraid, that in wandering about he should fall among wild beasts, and by that means perish, God bid him not to entertain such a melancholy suspicion, and to go over all the earth without fear of what mischief he might suffer from wild beasts; and setting a mark upon him that he might be known, he commanded him to depart.

And when Cain had travelled over many countries, he, with his wife, built a city, named Nod, which is a place so called, and there he settled his abode; where also he had children. However, he did not accept of his punishment, in order to amendment, but to increase his wickedness; for he only aimed to procure everything that was for his own bodily pleasure, though it obliged him to be injurious to his neighbors. —Antiq. 1:58-60​

It appears that the ancients came to the same conclusions I did. Cain already had a wife! Josephus continued.

He first of all set boundaries about lands; he built a city, and fortified it with walls, and he compelled his family to come together to it; and called that city Enoch, after the name of his eldest son Enoch.—Antiq. 1:62​

The ancients also believed that Cain already had a family, and that he later compelled them to join him in the city he built. Thus, they believed, and I suspect, that Enoch his first born was not procreated in Nod, but was compelled to come later to live in the city.

Now I'm not saying this is inspired history, but it does seem to be very reliable history and very compatible with the Genesis account, fitting nicely with many implications Genesis makes. For the Genesis account strongly implies Cain was somewhere just short of 129 years old at the time he killed Abel, given Seth's date of birth.

I found this all to be a blessing. This issue is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks for skeptics and christians alike. A little careful reading, though, and everything seems to fall right into place.

A good article on the subject:
Cain’s Wife Still On Trial

 

[ChetSinger]

I found this all to be a blessing. This issue is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks for skeptics and christians alike. A little careful reading, though, and everything seems to fall right into place.

Amen to that. I've spoken with numerous skeptics who attempt to make hay with that passage, each one seemingly unable to understand how it can fit together coherently.

I've found their inability to make sense of that passage positively baffling.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Nod means wandering.
There was no land of Nod. There has never been a land of Nod.

There is a loss of true history in the west, which causes many "christian fables" to be made up which are totally refuted by true history.

The Book of Jasher- Translator's Preface | The Book of Jasher | Apocryphal References- Psalm11918.org
...
The important transactions which are narrated with so remarkable a brevity in the Bible, are, in Jasher, more circumstantially detailed as in the instance of the murder of Abd by his brother Cain, a particular account is given of the disagreement which preceded it, and of the pretext which Cain sought for the commission of the crime. It appears, also, that when the divine judgment condemned him to wander upon the earth, his wife accompanied him, not to the land of Nod, for no such place is mentioned; but, from this book it appears that the word Nod, in the Scripture, has been given for the participle of the verb "ddg" to move or wander about." Jasher has it thus: [Hebrew Text Omitted] "And at that time Cain went forth from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was; and he went moving and wandering in the land at the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him."

The Book of the Upright/Jasher, chapter 1:
...And at that time Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was, and he went moving and wandering in the land toward the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him. And Cain knew his wife in those days, and she conceived and bare a son, and he called his name Enoch, saying, In that time the Lord began to give him rest and quiet in the earth. And at that time Cain also began to build a city: and he built the city and he called the name of the city Enoch, according to the name of his son; for in those days the Lord had given him rest upon the earth, and he did not move about and wander as in the beginning.
And Irad was born to Enoch, and Irad begat Mechuyael and Mechuyael begat Methusael.

Note: this is not Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam who is descended from Seth.

 

[Calminian]

Nod means wandering.
There was no land of Nod. There has never been a land of Nod..

I don't see why that means it wasn't a proper name of the land. Many lands in the Bible, if not all, have meanings, and the names are derived form those meanings (or perhaps the meanings were derived from the names). Abel's and Cain's names also have meanings. Does that mean they were not real people?

Now the book of Jasher (which may or may not be history, and certainly isn't inspired) actually doesn't make your case for you. It doesn't say anything about the formal name of the land Cain settled. It just merely mentions Cain's wandering. The commentary did, but frankly I found that commentary to be a bit weak and overreaching.

Now I would love to see some evidence for Jasher's historicity and I'm open to it, but at this point, not a lot exists.

But either way, even if it was was based on a historical document, I would not view it as history, and not use it to dogmatically state history. All history books are subject to human error.

The main reason I quoted Antiquities, was to show what ancient opinion was. Ultimately neither Antiquities or Jasher (if authentic) are not authoritative. They can offer insights, though, in conjunction with the Bible. Hopefully we agree on that.

Regardless, it's off topic. The thread is not about the formal name of Cain's land. The discussion is about whether or not Cain was married at the time he was banished, of if he found a wife elsewhere afterward.

 

[Joshua0]

The thread is not about the formal name of Cain's land. The discussion is about whether or not Cain was married at the time he was banished, of if he found a wife elsewhere afterward.

There was plenty of women to choose from. Archaeology shows us that there were something like 56 settlements in the Tigris Euphrates River Valley 6,000 years ago at the time of Adam and Eve. They call this Mesopotamia.

 

[Aman777]

Joshua0:>>There was plenty of women to choose from. Archaeology shows us that there were something like 56 settlements in the Tigris Euphrates River Valley 6,000 years ago at the time of Adam and Eve. They call this Mesopotamia.

Dear Josh, Are you saying that Noah left this area, floated around the world for 150 days, and then landed in the SAME area? Also, Where did the settlements come from 6k years ago, IF Adam was the first human?

In Love,
Aman

 

[yeshuasavedme]

This was prompted by this response in a different thread.



But is this really true that Cain traveled a great distance and found his soul mate??

Just a couple things I noticed from the text of Genesis where this account is taken. Please note the following exhibits.

A) The passage never says Cain found a wife in Nod.
B) The passage never says Cain actually knew his wife in Nod.

Read for yourself.

Gen. 4:16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.​

(NKJV)

You'll notice there's nothing there about Cain finding a wife in Nod. In fact, there's nothing about him actually having relations with her in Nod. It merely says he knew his wife, and while context may suggest this took place in Nod, it's not definite. Take a look at how the NIV separates the paragraphs.

16 So Cain went out from the LORD’S presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Gen. 4:17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch.​

(NIV)

Now in addition to that, exhibit C) Seth is said to be Abel's replacement

Gen. 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, “For God has appointed another seed for me instead of Abel, whom Cain killed.” ​

and exhibit D) he was born when Adam was 130 years old.

Gen. 5:3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.​

That would seem to indicate that Cain and Abel must have been quite old at the time of Abel's death, assuming they were born early in Adam's life. If that's true, both men may have been well over a century old at the time of Abel's killing.

Thus, it would follow Cain was already likely Married with children as was Abel. For are we really to assume that both men lived the equivalent of 2 modern lifespans and didn't take wives?

Now the genealogy this is taken from records that Adam and Eve had other children, both sons and daughters. Jewish tradition says they had 56 children. Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't, but for certain God commanded them to multiply. I would say 3 children in 130 years is quite unlikely.

Now all of this suggest to me that Cain was already married with children at the time he killed Abel, and that when he was banished he took his wife with him. I would also surmise that at that time, thousands of people were already on the earth from all the children Adam and Eve had. In fact, there were likely multiple generations from each of Adam's many sons. This would explain Cain's fear of retribution.

Now this is speculation, but it's based on the text. But then I came across what Josephus had to say on the matter. He was a jewish historian with much better historical sources than we have today. He was not inspired, but his historical accounts have proved very accurate and helpful.

According to his sources, after Cain and slew Abel, the following took place. (this blew me away)

God therefore did not inflict the punishment [of death] upon him, on account of his offering sacrifice, and thereby making supplication to him not to be extreme in his wrath to him; but he made him accursed, and threatened his posterity in the seventh generation. He also cast him, together with his wife, out of that land. And when he was afraid, that in wandering about he should fall among wild beasts, and by that means perish, God bid him not to entertain such a melancholy suspicion, and to go over all the earth without fear of what mischief he might suffer from wild beasts; and setting a mark upon him that he might be known, he commanded him to depart.

And when Cain had travelled over many countries, he, with his wife, built a city, named Nod, which is a place so called, and there he settled his abode; where also he had children. However, he did not accept of his punishment, in order to amendment, but to increase his wickedness; for he only aimed to procure everything that was for his own bodily pleasure, though it obliged him to be injurious to his neighbors. —Antiq. 1:58-60​

It appears that the ancients came to the same conclusions I did. Cain already had a wife! Josephus continued.

He first of all set boundaries about lands; he built a city, and fortified it with walls, and he compelled his family to come together to it; and called that city Enoch, after the name of his eldest son Enoch.—Antiq. 1:62​

The ancients also believed that Cain already had a family, and that he later compelled them to join him in the city he built. Thus, they believed, and I suspect, that Enoch his first born was not procreated in Nod, but was compelled to come later to live in the city.

Now I'm not saying this is inspired history, but it does seem to be very reliable history and very compatible with the Genesis account, fitting nicely with many implications Genesis makes. For the Genesis account strongly implies Cain was somewhere just short of 129 years old at the time he killed Abel, given Seth's date of birth.

I found this all to be a blessing. This issue is probably one of the biggest stumbling blocks for skeptics and christians alike. A little careful reading, though, and everything seems to fall right into place.

A little more careful reading shows one that there is no such a thing as the land of Nod. It is from the word "to wander".

Josephus was missing all the history at that time, and had a lot of tradition replacing it. He even claims the Book of Jasher was in the temple, but his writings miss that true history by a long shot. He did not even get all the books that were in the Temple before it was destroyed.
Who knows where they all went, that may have been saved, but no doubt some were part of the collection of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Josephus claimed to have been with that group for a time, but he relied on much tradition for his writings -even though the traditions were written, by then, they were still traditions.
Things never change, from generation to generation. Men prefer their own wisdom to what God has given us.

He relies much on tradition in his writings, and fills his writings with his own opinions which sometimes line up with the true histories, and sometimes not because of the hiding of the "seers and the prophets" which God Himself did to Israel when they were dispersed. I own Josephus writings, and have enjoyed reading as I do all the ancient writings related to Israel and to the history of the earth from the beginning of creation, but Josephus had the disadvantage from writing after God had taken away the seers and prophets at the time of the dispersion, as is said in Isaiah 28 and 29.

We do not have to play guessing games about Cain's wife or what he did after he was banished to wander. the history book called "the Book of the Upright" tells us Cain wandered -just like God said, and that he took his wife with him.
He later settled and built a city, naming it after his first son.
Your thread is filled with speculations and you want to discover "truth"; but it is all there, already, and we do not need to speculate.
And the word "mark" is a promise God gave to Cain that no one would avenge Abel's blood. It is the same word God used when He put the rainbow in the sky as a promise he would never flood the entire world again.

The prophecy Abel gave to Cain was about the LORD Himself being the avenger of blood who would avenge Abel's blood on Cain if Cain slew him.
-Jesus said Abel was a prophet, and his prophecy is recorded in Jasher, and it is about the Avenger being God.
God uses ministering angels to do those things, and Cain worried indeed about the avenging. God gave Cain a promise that the avengers would not slay him. God reserved the right to keep Cain alive at that time, and Cain did settle down instead of wandering.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I don't see why that means it wasn't a proper name of the land. Many lands in the Bible, if not all, have meanings, and the names are derived form those meanings (or perhaps the meanings were derived from the names). Abel's and Cain's names also have meanings. Does that mean they were not real people? .

All names have meanings, but there was never a land of Nod.
And Cain took his wife with him when he was banished from the presence of the LORD at Mount Eden's Gate of entry, where the sacrifices were offered since the fall, once, yearly.
Even the ancient Chinese Border Sacrifice and the characters used to describe it tell that same story, about offering the sacrifice of atonement once, yearly, and asking for the blessing of the Creator for the year, in memory of the ancestors having done so at the entry to the Garden of the Mount of God.

 

[Calminian]

All names have meanings, but there was never a land of Nod. ....

You keep stating this but have offered nothing to prove it. Seems your argument is, "Nod means to wander, therefore Nod is not the name of a region."

But that's a fallacious argument.

 

[Calminian]

Joshua0:>>There was plenty of women to choose from. Archaeology shows us that there were something like 56 settlements in the Tigris Euphrates River Valley 6,000 years ago at the time of Adam and Eve. They call this Mesopotamia.

Dear Josh, Are you saying that Noah left this area, floated around the world for 150 days, and then landed in the SAME area? Also, Where did the settlements come from 6k years ago, IF Adam was the first human?

In Love,
Aman

Exactly. Good point A-777.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You keep stating this but have offered nothing to prove it. Seems your argument is, "Nod means to wander, therefore Nod is not the name of a region."

But that's a fallacious argument.

The Hebrew word is one and the same in Genesis 4:12, 14, and 16. Translator ignorance only, makes it into two or three English words.

YLT
And Cain goeth out from before Jehovah, and dwelleth in the land, moving about east of Eden;
Young's literal translation is literal, indeed.

There is no such a thing as a land/country named "nod", of earth, but there is a verb that means "to wander", and Cain continued wandering in the earth, east of Eden -until he settled down and built a city, and finally had rest from his wandering.

He took his wife and all belonging to him with him when he went away from the presence of the LORD, from the face of the ground that he loved to til and grow things on, wandering in the eretz/earth, and continuing so, like a homeless man, until he built a city.

From Strong's Concordance:

nud: to move to and fro, wander, flutter, show grief​

Original Word: נוּד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nud
Phonetic Spelling: (nood)
Short Definition: mourn


Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to move to and fro, wander, flutter, show grief
NASB Translation
console (1), consoled (1), drive away (1), flee (2), flitting (1), grieve (1), grieving (1), mourn (4), shake (2), shaken (1), sympathize (1), sympathy (1), totters (1), wander (2), wandered (1), wanderer (2), waver (1).


Genesis 4:12


נוד

BIB: לָ֑ךְ נָ֥ע וָנָ֖ד תִּֽהְיֶ֥ה בָאָֽרֶץ׃
NAS: to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.
KJV: a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
INT: strength vagrant wanderer become the earth
Genesis 4:14
נוד
BIB: וְהָיִ֜יתִי נָ֤ע וָנָד֙ בָּאָ֔רֶץ וְהָיָ֥ה
NAS: and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth,
KJV: and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth;
INT: to pass vagrant wanderer the earth become


Genesis 4:16 נוד


[/quote]
Young's literal translation was 1898, and he got it right.
The Hebrew Sepir Ha Yasher was printed in 1613, and the English translations were in the 1800's, I think.
The English translators of the Hebrew also said that: "...Cain took his wife and all belonging to him and went wandering and moving about in the land...".

YLT
And Cain goeth out from before Jehovah, and dwelleth in the land, moving about east of Eden;

 

[ThouShaltNotPoe]

I don't see why that means it wasn't a proper name of the land. Many lands in the Bible, if not all, have meanings, and the names are derived form those meanings (or perhaps the meanings were derived from the names). Abel's and Cain's names also have meanings. Does that mean they were not real people?

Even though I agree with your wish to move the thread back to the OP, I wanted to APPLAUD the point you made above. I find a LOT of Christian traditions come with "rules of interpretation" which they apply to the Biblical text which had no basis in linguistic reality. And when an ancient language has no upper/lower case and no capitalization for emphasizing PROPER NOUNS, we should not dismiss all the possibilities for what a word can be. Unfortunately, an English Bible reader comes away ASSURED that there is no ambiguity in the text---when, in fact, the translator has "screened it" for the reader. So the translator makes the decision (right or wrong) and the English Bible reader gets the result. [Yes, 99% of the time that is surely a great translation but some details do get left ambiguous at times.]

 

[Calminian]

The Hebrew word is one and the same in Genesis 4:12, 14, and 16. Translator ignorance only, makes it into two or three English words. ....

You still have not made an argument though. You simply keep stating Nod is not a place, and translations are not accurate, and then quote a translation to make your case. But there are many more translations that support Nod being a formal name. I really don't care either way frankly, but you seem to want me to just take your word for it as an inspired prophet.

Now if you want to make a case I'll listen, but until then, look at all these translations that disagree with you.

Then Cain went out from the presence aof the LORD, and 1settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. (NASB)

And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden (KJV)

So Cain went out from the LORD’S presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden. (NIV)

Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD and settled in the land of Nod,* east of Eden. (ESV)

Cain went out from Yahweh’s presence, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. (WEB)​

I could go on and on, but you get the point. Again, your argument that 'because Nod means wandering it can't be a place' is a remarkably bad one and would mean that virtually all places named in the Bible are not real places.

I'd highly recommend a new line of reasoning.

 

[Calminian]

Even though I agree with your wish to move the thread back to the OP, I wanted to APPLAUD the point you made above. ....

Oh no worries. Thank you.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Hebrew word is one and the same in Genesis 4:12, 14, and 16. Translator ignorance only, makes it into two or three English words.

YLT
And Cain goeth out from before Jehovah, and dwelleth in the land, moving about east of Eden;
Young's literal translation is literal, indeed.

There is no such a thing as a land/country named "nod", of earth, but there is a verb that means "to wander", and Cain continued wandering in the earth, east of Eden -until he settled down and built a city, and finally had rest from his wandering.

He took his wife and all belonging to him with him when he went away from the presence of the LORD, from the face of the ground that he loved to til and grow things on, wandering in the eretz/earth, and continuing so, like a homeless man, until he built a city.

From Strong's Concordance:

nud: to move to and fro, wander, flutter, show grief​

Original Word: נוּד
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nud
Phonetic Spelling: (nood)
Short Definition: mourn


Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to move to and fro, wander, flutter, show grief
NASB Translation
console (1), consoled (1), drive away (1), flee (2), flitting (1), grieve (1), grieving (1), mourn (4), shake (2), shaken (1), sympathize (1), sympathy (1), totters (1), wander (2), wandered (1), wanderer (2), waver (1).


Genesis 4:12


נוד

BIB: לָ֑ךְ נָ֥ע וָנָ֖ד תִּֽהְיֶ֥ה בָאָֽרֶץ׃
NAS: to you; you will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth.
KJV: a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
INT: strength vagrant wanderer become the earth
Genesis 4:14
נוד
BIB: וְהָיִ֜יתִי נָ֤ע וָנָד֙ בָּאָ֔רֶץ וְהָיָ֥ה
NAS: and I will be a vagrant and a wanderer on the earth,
KJV: and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth;
INT: to pass vagrant wanderer the earth become


Genesis 4:16 נוד

Young's literal translation was 1898, and he got it right.
The Hebrew Sepir Ha Yasher was printed in 1613, and the English translations were in the 1800's, I think.
The English translators of the Hebrew also said that: "...Cain took his wife and all belonging to him and went wandering and moving about in the land...".

YLT
And Cain goeth out from before Jehovah, and dwelleth in the land, moving about east of Eden;[/quote]
The original is inspired. Translations are not inspired, and we depend on the translators overly and should prove all things, for they do not always translate the original, but they themselves depend on prior translators, and so they repeat errors which the Hebrew/Greek true scholar actually reveals in a translation, but even then, translation depends on context which some and many translators do not even understand. If they just translated without bias, we would have more honest translations.
Even then, we do not depend on translations for our salvation, but on the revelation of Jesus Christ to our inner man, and then, we should seek to study to show ourselves approved unto God, workmen that need not to be ashamed.

The word translated "nod" is more than just to wander, as I showed in the pasted concordance and in the verses it is used in prior to that one, we have more correct meanings and that should have been applied to the verse 16, also.

In context to the curse and conversation between God and Cain, it means more that Cain was to be a "vagabond in the earth", a wanderer fleeing, unsettled, and without ability to settle to til the land/soil which he loved to do. He specifically declared that sorrow over not being able to til the land. Sorrow is also connected to the meaning of that word in the Hebrew Lexicon. you can check out the Lexicon on the Blueletterbible.org site for that word...and Young did a literal translation and literal it is.
And the Hebrew Sepir Ha Yasher was printed in 1613, and the English translations totally agree with the Genesis use of the word in that Cain wandered as a fugitive, in sorrow, and a vagabond who did not work tilling the soil and did finally settle and build a city -that is the context and the word does not mean there was a country named "nod" on earth.

Cain was married and a settled farmer who tilled the soil when he was cast out from the soil/adamah and the presence of the LORD, as a "nod/ -a fugitive and a vagabond, fleeing and roaming in sorrow, homeless and unsettled in the earth/eretz" -until he did settle and build a city.

 

[Joshua0]

But is this really true that Cain traveled a great distance and found his soul mate??

There were plenty of people living in Mesopotamia at the time. In fact it was the non semitic people that actually had written language 1,000 years before the Semitics. Archaeology finds around 50 settlements of people living in the Euphrates River Valley at this time, 6,000 years ago. This was the beginning of civilization and the beginning of written language. As the Bible is a written account of what was going on back then at the time. Of course the natural record that archaeology works with is based more on the artifacts they find.

They find references to Noah in clay tablets written 1,000 years before Moses gave us the Bible we have today. Accounts written by people that actually talked to Noah and interviewed him about his flood and his story. Of course the story is not as dependable as the Bible. As the story gets told from person to person and gets written every now and then, there are changes. We do not see this in the Bible.

They stayed close to the river. The Bible says he went East, so he could not have gone very far.

 

[Calminian]

Young's literal translation was 1898, and he got it right.
The Hebrew Sepir Ha Yasher was printed in 1613, and the English translations were in the 1800's, I think.
The English translators of the Hebrew also said that: "...Cain took his wife and all belonging to him and went wandering and moving about in the land...".

YLT
And Cain goeth out from before Jehovah, and dwelleth in the land, moving about east of Eden;

The original is inspired. Translations are not inspired, and we depend on the translators overly and should prove all things, for they do not always translate the original, but they themselves depend on prior translators, and so they repeat errors which the Hebrew/Greek true scholar actually reveals in a translation, but even then, translation depends on context which some and many translators do not even understand. If they just translated without bias, we would have more honest translations.
Even then, we do not depend on translations for our salvation, but on the revelation of Jesus Christ to our inner man, and then, we should seek to study to show ourselves approved unto God, workmen that need not to be ashamed.

The word translated "nod" is more than just to wander, as I showed in the pasted concordance and in the verses it is used in prior to that one, we have more correct meanings and that should have been applied to the verse 16, also.

In context to the curse and conversation between God and Cain, it means more that Cain was to be a "vagabond in the earth", a wanderer fleeing, unsettled, and without ability to settle to til the land/soil which he loved to do. He specifically declared that sorrow over not being able to til the land. Sorrow is also connected to the meaning of that word in the Hebrew Lexicon. you can check out the Lexicon on the Blueletterbible.org site for that word...and Young did a literal translation and literal it is.
And the Hebrew Sepir Ha Yasher was printed in 1613, and the English translations totally agree with the Genesis use of the word in that Cain wandered as a fugitive, in sorrow, and a vagabond who did not work tilling the soil and did finally settle and build a city -that is the context and the word does not mean there was a country named "nod" on earth.

Cain was married and a settled farmer who tilled the soil when he was cast out from the soil/adamah and the presence of the LORD, as a "nod/ -a fugitive and a vagabond, fleeing and roaming in sorrow, homeless and unsettled in the earth/eretz" -until he did settle and build a city.[/QUOTE]

And he may have been right. But he also may have been wrong. Jasher may well be just fictional theological midrash, completely made up for sake ancient commentary practices.

But you're missing the bigger point. Young would agree with me that the book of Jaser is a fallible book and not on par with scripture.

That's why he and I can read the book in light of scripture and see its shortcomings and you can't. You've gone to the dangerous extent of believing it is inerrant.

 

[freezerman2000]

I have an NLT Bible, and it states that" Cain left the Lord's presence and SETTLED in the land of Nod,east of Eden.
Cain had sexual relations with his wife,and she became pregnant..".
Nowhere does it say that he took his wife with him..also,settling does not equate to wandering.

 

[Calminian]

There were plenty of people living in Mesopotamia at the time. In fact it was the non semitic people that actually had written language 1,000 years before the Semitics.

Well Adam and Noah were certainly not semitic, so I guess their writings would make your point.

Let's not miss that Genesis, given to us by Moses is a compilation of several accounts, and those accounts bear the names of their owners. Adam, Noah, Sons of Noah, Shem, The various unnamed toledoth in the table of nations, Terrah, Isaac (which includes toledoth of Ismael) and Jacob (which includes toledoth of Esau).

So there is no question that writing existed in antediluvian times.

Archaeology finds around 50 settlements of people living in the Euphrates River Valley at this time, 6,000 years ago. This was the beginning of civilization and the beginning of written language.

Well I would put the Bible forth as evidence of it existing before the flood. We have toledoth in the book of Genesis identifying 5 antediluvian authors, Adam, Noah and Noah's sons.

They find references to Noah in clay tablets written 1,000 years before Moses gave us the Bible we have today. Accounts written by people that actually talked to Noah and interviewed him about his flood and his story. Of course the story is not as dependable as the Bible. As the story gets told from person to person and gets written every now and then, there are changes. We do not see this in the Bible.

Interesting. Share your sources. I'd like to check those out.

They stayed close to the river. The Bible says he went East, so he could not have gone very far.

Oh, no no no.

Sounds like you're making the very basic mistake of confusing the antediluvian Eden rivers with modern rivers that bear those same names.

You have to understand that names were often recycled by the postdiluvians. For instance, Pishon watered the land of Havilah in the antediluvian world. This land of course was destroyed in the flood. Later Cush named one of his sons after that antediluvian city.

Gen. 10:7 The sons of Cush were Seba, Havilah.....​

And it makes sense as even Cush himself was named after an ancient city. Gihon watered the land of Cush. Later, perhaps remembering that city, Ham named his firstborn son (ostensibly he was the firstborn) after it.

Gen. 10:6 The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 7 The sons of Cush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan. ​

Shem did the same thing.

Gen. 10:22 The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur.....​

Asshur was the city that the Tigris ran along in the antediluvian world. Both the river and the city didn't survive the flood, but the names were definitely reused.

Now Cush the son of Ham went on to found the land of Cush (Ethiopia) in the postdiluvian world, just as Ham's son Mizriam went on to found Mizraim (Egypt) in the postdiluvian world. Japheth's son Javan (Greece) when on to found the nation of Greece. Etc. etc. etc. This is normally how lands get their names. For as long as humans have existed they have recycled names. Where do you think we get the name New England? Or Paris, Texas? Or Mars California? Or Hell Michigan?

But don't make the very easy mistake of believing that pre-flood cities and rivers and landmarks are the same as post-flood cities and rivers and landmarks.

 

[Joshua0]

Interesting. Share your sources. I'd like to check those out.

The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It was written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BC. Code of Ur-Nammu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Epic of Gilgamesh: Various themes, plot elements, and characters in the Epic of Gilgamesh have counterparts in the book of Genesis, notably in the stories of the Garden of Eden and Noah's Flood.

Epic of Gilgamesh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds like you're making the very basic mistake of confusing the antediluvian Eden rivers with modern rivers that bear those same names.

I am talking about Mesopotamia that existed 6,000 years ago. I have studied a lot of what archaeology has found and the artifacts they had back then. Even there are professors at various universities that are experts on the Ancient plants we find in the Middle East. The Biology books talk about ecosystems. If as you suggest Adams son left this ecosystem, then where did he go to? History of agriculture

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture

I have studied ancient history for over 40 years now.

Any ancient river beds from 6,000 years ago would show up on the space photos that we find on google earth or whatever they call that.

But don't make the very easy mistake of believing that pre-flood cities and rivers and landmarks are the same as post-flood cities and rivers and landmarks.

Did you know that archaeology has found ancient grain bins that go back 20,000 years? Of course they are wild grains. The grains we find after Adam 6,000 years ago are domesticated grains. There is a BIG difference.

Here is an article that shows what man was eating 100,000 years ago: "Stone Age Pantry: Archaeologist Unearths Earliest Evidence of Modern Humans Using Wild Grains and Tubers for Food"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217141312.htm