Denomination Wars

[AnticipateHisComing]

Simple poll. There seems to be a lot of activity in GT on denominational conflicts.

Are you tired of all the posts and comments that pit one denomination against another?

By tired, I mean the same arguments get repeated over and over. No edification is going on. Neither side will be won over. There is no constructive point to them.

To me they seem only to elevate man's teaching/doctrine in one church over another.
In the end you will be saved based on belief in Jesus as your Savior, not what doctrine you know.

Does any think you will be rewarded in heaven for what doctrine you hold? Is there any scripture to defend that?

 

[WirSindBettler]

I kind of enjoy them. Wish there were more regarding Lutheranism, rather than the age old ones pitting Calvinism against Arminianism, Catholicism against Protestantism, Paedobaptists against Credobaptists, &c.

 

[Tangible]

Personally, I'm tired of the Non-denominational wars. At least the people from churches with a clear, historical confession of faith have a leg to stand on in a debate, as opposed to those who believe that they have cut themselves loose from any denominational entanglements yet are united under a specific set of doctrines that differ from the common core of historical confessions.

I fled the nebulous, ill-defined lump of churches that call themselves Evangelical years ago for a church that was the first to bear the name Evangelical and was not ashamed to clearly spell out the reasons why - and it's all about Jesus.

 

[hedrick]

Near the beginning of Mere Christianity, C S Lewis made an interesting comment. He said that the goal of the book was to present what was common among most Christians. But that if you wanted to be a Christian, you shouldn’t try to do it by sticking with those things. In order to have a real Christian life, you need to commit to a specific tradition, just as a person needs to grow up not as a “mere human” but a member of a specific family and community (though I don’t think he used that analogy).

That’s what denominations at their best do. I don’t necessarily feel at war against other traditions. I’m interested in understanding them and comparing them, but not fighting wars among them. But occasional conflict may be hard to avoid. My Church (which is part of the Reformed tradition) is in full communion with Lutherans, Moravians, Disciples of Christ and a few others. And we have reasonable relations with Methodists, Episcopal, and in a more limited way, Catholics. We can talk about our differences with a relative lack of heat.

The more serious problem comes when we get out of that range. Some other Christians seem to me to have misunderstood Jesus is a quite basic way.

It doesn’t much matter whether this is thought of as a matter of denominational difference or not. People who claim not to be part of any denomination often have even worse problems, simply because over time most theological traditions get beaten into shape simply by having to cope with reality, and with other Christians. A few are so committed to being irreformable that this takes a long time, but it does still happen. Not everyone will agree with me on this, but I think over time even the LDS and JW's will become legit. (That's part of why I don't like to see them stuck with Muslims and Hindus in the World Religions category.) So it’s generally the people who aren’t part of such a tradition who seem to be the weirdest.

But still, denominational or otherwise, there are just really major differences among Christians. There may be no really good way to avoid that. Perhaps at times we need to sit back and celebrate the fact that we both serve the same Lord.

Of course in some cases even that isn’t possible, since some traditions don’t even acknowledge others as Christian. I’ve recently been in a discussion where many of the postings use terms like apostate and fake Christian. At that point I just have to throw up my hands and avoid getting sucked in, as much as I can.

 

[topcare]

Denomination Wars

A new movie. I am your denomination, Luke!

Nooooo!!!!!!!

 

[Rhamiel]

Personally, I'm tired of the Non-denominational wars. At least the people from churches with a clear, historical confession of faith have a leg to stand on in a debate, as opposed to those who believe that they have cut themselves loose from any denominational entanglements yet are united under a specific set of doctrines that differ from the common core of historical confessions.

I fled the nebulous, ill-defined lump of churches that call themselves Evangelical years ago for a church that was the first to bear the name Evangelical and was not ashamed to clearly spell out the reasons why - and it's all about Jesus.

this

 

[Tangible]

Also, the poll question is akin to asking "Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no." It is a false choice between two insufficient answers. It is a loaded question that assumes that there are denomination wars to begin with, and that people are either tired of them or not.

 

[Celticflower]

I view the ongoing debates as disagreements more than war. Yes, there are some who are more vocal about what is wrong with everyone who is not them, and yes, the repetitive nature of the discussions can get boring.

I think each denomination has something that attracts certain people, but the core teachings and beliefs are generally the same. I have often likened it to ice cream. Everyone has a favorite flavor, but they all begin with the same ingredients (milk/cream, sugar, salt, vanilla). The added flavors and stuff don't make one more ice cream than another, but one may appeal to one person more than another. The same with denominations - the core is the same, but each adds or subtracts non-essentials to appeal to a certain group of people. But one is not more Christian than another if the core beliefs remain intact. It is when things that don't matter in the big picture become the focus of a group or the non-essentials become more important than the essentials that the problem arises.

No need to fight a war. Just bloom where you are planted.

 

[Rhamiel]

In the end you will be saved based on belief in Jesus as your Savior, not what doctrine you know

well the belief that Jesus Christ is your Savior is a doctrine
so you clearly do not think all doctrines are unnecessary
and then you hear people say stuff like "well what is important is that we all believe in the essentials"
this reduces the deposit of Faith that other Christians have sacrificed their lives to preserve (either through a life of service and teaching or martyrdom) to "well lets just get enough to get into heaven and the rest of that stuff don't matter"
this "just enough" theology is very unseemly

and then we have "well what ARE the essentials?"
and that is a whole other round of debates
but since the popular culture has thrown out the ancient writings of all the great Churches and Faith Traditions we are left to a debate that is intellectually and theologically bankrupt

Matthew 10:34
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

as I read for my global studies course it points out one universal truth: Christ's message is not culturally bound or restricted by the same culture. Are different denominations merely the local contextualization of Christ's universal message made relevant to them?

 

[Albion]

as I read for my global studies course it points out one universal truth: Christ's message is not culturally bound or restricted by the same culture. Are different denominations merely the local contextualization of Christ's universal message made relevant to them?

That's been said before, but I wonder if we can deal with the subject better if we have some examples. Did you have any in mind?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

That's been said before, but I wonder if we can deal with the subject better if we have some examples. Did you have any in mind?

Missionaries tend to have to translate Christian principles to cultures whose understanding of the ways that we worship are entirely foreign to them. Like an martian falling out of the sky. Perhaps, certain traditions do not make sense to people because their view of the world is different. Paul had to make a jewish message understandable to a gentile population. So the Romans and the greeks adapted it and what we see with the churches around those areas as what they are now as a result. Same thing could be said of the multiple denominations in america, but it is merely accelerated because of of individualism heavy culture? Everyone has a drastically different worldview for some reason.

 

[Albion]

Missionaries tend to have to translate Christian principles to cultures whose understanding of the ways that we worship are entirely foreign to them. Like an martian falling out of the sky. Perhaps, certain traditions do not make sense to people because their view of the world is different. Paul had to make a jewish message understandable to a gentile population. So the Romans and the greeks adapted it and what we see with the churches around those areas as what they are now as a result. Same thing could be said of the multiple denominations in america, but it is merely accelerated because of of individualism heavy culture? Everyone has a drastically different worldview for some reason.

Yeh, the point about Hebrews, Romans, and Greeks is appropriate, but I guess I was hoping for an example of denominations we are familiar with in our own times. I'm just not sure that I'm following the meaning of "Are different denominations merely the local contextualization of Christ's universal message made relevant to them?"

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Yeh, the point about Hebrews, Romans, and Greeks is appropriate, but I guess I was hoping for an example of denominations we are familiar with in our own times. I'm just not sure that I'm following the meaning of "Are different denominations merely the local contextualization of Christ's universal message made relevant to them?"

I am sorry I am not well traveled enough to give any examples. It is merely a theory I came up with the other day. People from different places think differently on things. So they adapt Christs message and ways of worshiping him to their understanding of the world or how they understand their relation to their world.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I kind of enjoy them. Wish there were more regarding Lutheranism, rather than the age old ones pitting Calvinism against Arminianism, Catholicism against Protestantism, Paedobaptists against Credobaptists, &c.

Now that would really stir up GT even more, especially with Luther's view of the Popes and Catholicism in the early centuries. Maybe Luther was just having a bad day?

Here is an interested thread started by an SDA, and they also are not too fond of Cathlicism from what I hear.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...es-the-antichrist-over-500-years-ago.6814752/

The quote copied below is from one of Martin Luther's last books. It was titled: "A Prelude by Martin Luther on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church".

Page 536, chapter 3.

"Nevertheless, since few know this glory of baptism and the blessedness of Christian liberty, and cannot know them because of the tyranny of the pope, I for one will walk away from it all and redeem my conscience by bringing this charge against the pope and all his papists: Unless they will abolish their laws and traditions, and restore to Christ's churches their liberty and have it taught among them, they are guilty of all the souls that perish under this miserable captivity, and the papacy is truly the kingdom of Babylon, yes, the kingdom of the real Antichrist!
For who is " the man of sin" and "the son of perdition" but he that with his doctrines and his laws increases sins and the perdition of souls in the Church, while he sits in the Church as if he were God? All this the papal tyranny has fulfilled, and more than fulfilled, these many centuries. It has extinguished faith, obscured the sacraments and oppressed the Gospel."

I've always wondered why the SDAs were so obsessed with Catholicism. Of all the groups out there they are - by far - the ones that I find less concerned with actual preaching (unless it involves Sabbath worship) and more concerned about yelling about the Catholic Church.

The Pope as Anti-Christ is the confessional belief of several protestant denominations. In the past several hundred years or so, however, they've sort of gotten beyond that sticking point and have preached Christ as the physician of men...and have gotten on with the business of savlation.

I don't yet detect any sort of theological or doctrinal maturing out of the Adventist groups yet. Pretty sad, really.

When a group defines themselves more by what they are not instead of what they are I generally find it to be good advice that one should run, not walk, in the opposite direction.

 

[WirSindBettler]

Now that would really stir up GT even more, especially with Luther's view of the Popes and Catholicism in the early centuries. Maybe Luther was just having a bad day?

Here is an interested thread started by an SDA, and they also are not too fond of Cathlicism from what I hear.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...es-the-antichrist-over-500-years-ago.6814752/

The office of papacy is anti-Christ. No individual pope has ever been "the" anti-Christ. We don't view them fondly at all, though.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The office of papacy is anti-Christ. No individual pope has ever been "the" anti-Christ. We don't view them fondly at all, though.

Including Peter?

 

[hedrick]

Are different denominations merely the local contextualization of Christ's universal message made relevant to them?

i don't think that's entirely accurate. There are genuine differences, some of them between theological traditions that developed within the same culture.

 

[Albion]

I am sorry I am not well traveled enough to give any examples. It is merely a theory I came up with the other day. People from different places think differently on things. So they adapt Christs message and ways of worshiping him to their understanding of the world or how they understand their relation to their world.

Well, then, let me ask a slightly different question. Do you think that this perceived tendency to adapt is good for the faith, or is it that this perverts or wrongly fragments it?

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

i don't think that's entirely accurate. There are genuine differences, some of them between theological traditions that developed within the same culture.

just a theory really. I am not exactly betting all my money on the horse here.